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Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by dlff, Oct 17, 2010.
We shall all find out
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I'm not entirely certain to be honest Nath, I do like Audi for their build quality and subtle design, I just wish there was an ounce of driver involvement about them. I hate to have to hark on about Porsche but they are more of a drivers car, and if like me you don't use your car to drive to work then a car is more about fun than practicality. I have to say though that my 200sx was more fun and put a smile on my face and it cost me an awful lot less than my S3. I'm thinking something with RWD is the key to it, just not sure what yet...
i'd get an A5 2.0T quattro and tune the hell out of it...
not RWD but a fairly involving car, with the added advantage of 4WD, good looks (in the right spec) and prestige. also has the build quality you desire, it's fairly inconspicuous and is fun to drive.
Not bad the A5, nice enough car but I've been and done that now. I'm interested by the latest BMW 1M or whatever it's called.
Anyway, this is all just moaning, the S3 will do perfectly well for now and I'm sure it will be handy through the winter.
I'm still interested to see what an RS3 would end being like, the bodykit on the picture above looks a bit odd, the front arches seem to be much more beefed up than the rears, or is that just the angle?
+1 Beanoir. And again not wanting to harp on about other marques of car, but as capable as the S3 is, it did feel pretty bland. After reading reviews about the S3 and noting that many journalists came to this conclusion, i felt I knew better and hence opted to buy the brand new highly specced car I did. But the more miles I covered it just didn't set me alight. And to be honest if you weigh up the running costs ( ie Fuel , of which the S3 consumes at a phenominal rate ) against other machines out there ,that just make you smile before you even turn the key, shall we just say I was not too sad to see it go after only a few months of ownership.
So getting back to the subject , if the RS3 does make an appearance, I am in no doubt that it will look stunning. The performance will undoubtably be pretty special, however they are going to have to give the car some sort of edge to take the blandness away. But I am sure they will still sell like hot cakes, until such time the owners find out that again, as capable a car as it is there is a certain something lacking.
I find it hard to take in posts like I find the S3 bloody boring, not that you personally find it boring, it is your choice, I think people are to harsh to judge it. I dont find it boring, but I do feel safe in it which is more important for me especially as the S3 now is quite easily obtainable for most drivers, (Who like me are quiter inexperienced at having a car that really is seriously fast, and then so cheap to make it a very very fast car, I dont think Audi can afford not to make it boringly safe. Maybe after last Winter AWD became important to me, one of the main reasons I bought the S3 over a BMW,or anything else
I spent a few hours last night looking for new alternatives after reading some of the posts again in this thread, and others regarding S3's Verses etc. and read a few reviews, I could not really find one for the price, quality, resale value, and most of all for me AWD, I think 90% of people that actually write a review of an S3 have not driven one properly, and class the S3 the same as all other Audi's that are made (2 Wheel drive versions). Maybe it is old hat in side and outside, but for me what really counts is how it goes side by side.
I suppose what I am really saying, put 2 cars together on a road, track, an S3 pound for pound with some minor mods, will beat pretty well most things up to cars costing a lot more, because it is boring and safe, but winning is all that matters for me.
I am looking forward to an RS3, Will I buy one, hmm not sure but mostly because of my principles, ( I can certainly afford one) When I make a decision, and want it now, I want some discount to warrant me to buy it, I am not keen on the fact still you have to add loads of options to a car costing so much money, it is still old hat inside, outside does not bother me, I love understated cars, I would love an RS3, I just want to pay for it and drive it out of the showroom, not wait 6 months for it after ordering it
I've just come back from the Paris motorshow, and I decided to make the trek hoping there would be some sign of the RS3, or if not at least a whisper that it may be coming.
I spoke to the guys on the stand, and blank faces all round. All eyes and chatter was around the Quattro Concept which although beautiful did not look hugely practical, or with its TTRS derived engine, carbon ceramic brakes and carbon fibre splitters, likely to be affordable in the same vein as an RS3!
Audi stand was beautifully crafted, but again I was gutted that not only was there no RS3, but no S3. There was a 1.2 Audi A3 Cabrio though which was the only A3 variant I could locate on an otherwise well laid out stand.
Here are a few pics of some of the more interesting metal gracing the stand. Despite holding out, I'm not expecting to see and RS3 anytime soon, but I'm sure when I do decide to change and move on, as soon as my deposit is placed elsewhere it will be announced almost immediately.
In response to the comments about the S3 not being hugely engaging, I'm inclined to agree. Yes it is a tremendously competent and classy little car, which can deliver some serious straight line thrills, but I've struggled to develop my skills with this car as there is very little sense of where the limits sit based on the way the electronics intervene and take over (even with ESP set to off). All to often I get the sense the car is driving me, and not me truly driving it, and whilst in winter this is hugely confidence inspiring, I just don't get the sense of reward from the S3 I have had from other cars. Where it surpasses itself is when I chuck the keys at the wife on a typically cold wet British day I have none of the fear I would sending her out in other cars with 350bhp+ as I just know Quattro will be her safety net. In an equivalent RWD car I'd be far less comfortable.
Anyway, some shots from the Audi stand (minus RS3!), not the greatest shots as there was barely space to move for people.
And a couple of the new Lambo just because it was amazing!
you're right in a lot of what you say Brett. I think you have hit the nail on the head by saying it does feel like a safe car, and maybe that's why it feels, IMO anyway, a bit bland. Don't get me wrong a safe car is fine but just not raw enough for me. It ticks a lot of boxes, but the only one it doesn't, and this is the one that matters the most, does it make you grin from ear to ear every time you drive it ? Because for me spending £35,000 (+) on a car that is possibly primarily your transport / hobby and passion all rolled in to one, it needs to do that. If it is bought purely as an object to get you from A to B it is unlikely you would be using an Audi Sport forum.
So for me at least , this is why the RS3 would need to be a hell of a car to prize close to 45 to 50 grand out of my pocket.
The main reason why Ive kept this one so long and even now its out of warranty I`m not in a hurry to change it.
If you can live with 2 seats or dont need it as a daily driver then the options open up, eg Boxter,Cayman, 350Z, TT, 996.
But I like to have something with a chunk of warranty when I get it too, at least until its pretty much paid off anyway. I dont like the prospect of making payments on a car while being exposed to an `out of warranty` scenario in the long term.
Mine is a very specific set of requirements but IMO it shows that the S3 is more niche than it first appears.
The S3 wont set your world alight however having said that, Ive never understood why Journos wet themselves over the MK5 Gti then panned the S3. Shows complete ignorance and inconsistency.
A Golf R with Gti styling thats a bit cheaper than an S3 would be nice.
I hope they release the Quattro Concept. They have a section on it on the UK website may be there seeing how many potential customers there are.
Audi have said the quattro concept it a "very buildable" car as it's just shortened A4/A5 chassis.
I've heard the RS3 is to be shelved because they are concentrating on the new S1. Audi have decided not to badge the A1 1.4T 180bhp as an S1 because its not a quattro and have decided against diluting the brand.
Strangely they are looking at using the Skoda Yeti's AWD system and its brand new 1.6 Turbo which will be tuned to 220+ bhp
Interesting car that will be if you can live with its size.
I think the S3 will be axed then the RS3 brought out IMO, The fact that Audi are testing prototypes says to me that it's on the way. Personally next I will be going VW probably and definitely DSG After seeing my mates Golf gti Edition 30 I think a white one may be on the cards I do like the S3 but that golf just takes my fancy abit more really
Heh ,, my S3 even with stage one makes me smile, and when I think about it that has not happened on a daily basis in a car for a very very long time, the only car I have ever owned really that made me smile a lot, was R5 turbos, Oh and a Truimph 2.5 PI (overdrive in all 4 gears) when I was 17, what car like that would not make any 17 yr old smile , but whats makes us really smile, pretty well that the fact I am now in front of you? S3 does that pretty well for me.
When I first looked at S3, I actually found a brand new BE DSG for £26k reason it was so cheap no other extras except BT I recall, and it had been sitting in the dealers for 6 months unsold, only 12 miles on the clock, I said no, now that was a big mistake, I ended up paying 29K Plus another 4K in added extras since.
It is only a 2 seater, so no for me would never buy
All the above cars are nice but that Lambo is out of this world!!!!!
Yep, white ED30s are pretty special IMO.
Would LOVE a custom 4wd version
Don't listen to Willmac, Brett - I'm with you on the S3 on not being boring although certainly can be but more importantly should be more agressive from stock. A revo, TBE, etc etc and before you know it is a wolf in sheeps clothing that certinaly challenges all the write-ups in it competitive set.....for the last 4 years!!!
It all about opinions and as for Willmac I can speak personally for him.....if we are stereotype "corporate suits" who enjoy the luxury of the four rings in both quality build, prestigeness and added performance then I would describe Willmac as more of a transatlantic mindest....mainly because his driving habbits closely resemble Ace Ventura...but in all honesty in a former life I am convinced he was an architect, based in Stuttgart.....and its just as well he is based off-shore for half his life... otherwise the fact that that 2/3rds of all the 1m Porsches' built are still on the road would be seriously flawed knowing his fondness and genuinely admiration for.....(this could become a caption question ending!!)....
All i can say willie is I can't wait to see how my revo, TBE, ITG Maxogen, quattro beast pulls away from the lights and you haven;t even had a chance to turn down the volume on classic FM
Absolutely love this forum....:sign_unfair:
The S3 is certainly not the most raw or sharp hot hatch in standard form- Megane R26 , CTR, Focus RS etc are, but it is certainly is very quick and capable while maybe lacking some Drama of its rivals- Focus RS, R32 etc- with its engine note for example, in standard form.
A 911 turbo in comparison- not that they are even directly comparable is obviously is another league when its comes to steering feel, braking, drama etc, but again compared to its rivals- F430, Gallardo etc it can also be critiqued for being pretty dull- dull engine note, dull interior, more floaty chassis in comparison- 996 Turbo was always much less of a handler then the GT3 or even Carrera S, so everything must be compared relatively.
A 996 Turbo is obviously a hugely fast car but if I was too think of one supercar that's pretty lacking in drama compared to its rivals, and one I do not desire it would be a 996 or 997.1 Turbo..and yes I have been in a 997.1 Turbo.
Loving stirring it up !!
OK Mr Clarkson, next time you are test driving all the car's in your fantasy garage, give me a shout, be interested to tag along.
Are your comments based on your car or an S3 ?
Don't remember actually using the numbers 911 or 996 in my post..............
Hehe....Im just saying I do remember you kind of making an unfair comparison between the 996 and the S3 after upgrading, and most of the negatives aimed at the S3 were to do with its lack of drama/excitement etc
Not dissing your motor, just saying! My comments are based on several Stage2/ Stage 2+ S3s I have been in many times, belonging to members of this forum, said 997 I have been in, and many reviews/ road tests I have watched and read of the 996 turbo in particular.
NOOOOOO to the RS3 being a sport back, it needs to be a proper 3Dr to compare with a focus RS especially the most powerful 500
As for the other comments on the car being boring, its just safe. I was out in an R8 the other morning after it had been freezing and wet with leafs everywhere and it keeps you on your toes. Its not relaxing and you cant make that quick progress (only in a striaght line) as it gets a bit twitchy, fun in the dry but in the cold and wet an S3 would be able to keep up with it as the R8 would struggle to get all the power down.
Well I just got this month's Audi magazine emailed through to me, I was a good little boy and did what the marketing people wanted me to do, entered the competition and updated my "Model of interest".
I bet you can't guess which one I picked:
Hmm where is that let me update a few more k times
I FOUND IT, LOL, it ain't on there, Bah Audi are so Stupid, though is that magazine even Audi
Which reminds me while I was in the Audi Dealer the other week waiting for my car I was reading an Audi Mag in there on the table, it was full of adverts regarding remapping etc. I said to the service Manager regarding it, he said it is not an Official Audi mag, I said why an earth would you put a mag out on your table for Customers to read while waiting for their car with every other page relating to how great your car would be after remapping, he looked at me and just shrugged his shoulders, hehe, It is not on the table no more I might add
Yes, it's the official Audi magazine.
hehehe....... only jousting with you as well akash. At the end of the day it would be a sad world if we all had the same opinions and likes.
There will never be a perfect car for everyones tastes. So I hope no one has been offended by comments about the S3. Regardless of what my opinion is it will always have class, thats for sure.
But i really do hope that Audi do go for the RS3. I know it would make a lot of people happy on this Forum for one.
Anyway I'm going to go and drool over the photo of that "stealth" Lambo one more time, I would sell a kidney for it .
+1, it was a thing of beauty with staggering attention to detail. Best car in show for me, and I'd originally gone to see the Quattro Coupe with a hope of seeing RS3.
Crikey, I think I started all this with my "I think my S3 is boring" comment the other day. I never meant for this to turn into a car comparison thread or similar. I was simply saying that given my experience of performance Audis, I wont' be paying even more money for one in the form of an RS3.
I stand by what i said though, I think the S3 is boring, I have had more fun in cars that cost way less than the asking price of a new S3, FACT. Do I think it's slow, no I don't. Do I think it's a **** car, no I don't. Do I think you can have more fun for the money in a more driver focused car, yes I do, there is no debate about that, care to prove me wrong?
More fun for the same money in a more driver focused car? yes of course. I'm a fan of most fast Audis , but B7 RS4 and of course R8 excluded, they all seem to be a bit of a remote driving experience, even just in comparison to current AMGs and the M range.
S and RS Audis look lovely, have great interiors and engines, and tons of grip but mainly due to the quattro and nose heavyness are more about safe understeering behaviour then four wheel drift ability. All round they are great cars though.
Next year depending on my situation I am considering a Z4 M coupe, 370Z or a Monaro VXR for some real fun.
S3 must do something right for you to own it nick, otherwise you would have bought a 2.0TDI
I do question one part of your theory, you always talk money, more fun for the same money, please do explain , a 10 year old porche for 30k against a new 30k S3, I think that is an unfair comparison, give S3's another year or so, pick one up for like 12-15k spend 5k (not to make it look more pretty) then your fun theory for the money I think would be on dodgy tarmac. I stand by my Fun Theory, is winning , not nearly ending up in the hedge every 5 mins in the wet or dry for that matter.
S3's makes me smile, come up and see me at the Wining post
All 2 seaters except Vauxhall, and I think you would be disappointed in day to day use in that, and handling, not to mention fuel, but fuel for some does not really come into it I know
Reason I was considering the Monaro is because of the awesome 6.0L LS2 V8. I am a total fan of big V8s and the sound, and these are so easy to tune. Standard they sound the bomb but stick an exhaust and headers and you've a Nascar engine under the bonnet.
The interior is pretty lame I know and styling so so but they are also simple mechanically, but its mainly about the engine for me.
It doesn't have to be a Porsche, it could be many other cars. I think some of you are missing my point, I do rate the S3 in many many ways, BUT I find it boring to drive, there is so little feedback to the driver, the engine note doesn't make the hairs stand up on the back of my neck, you don't feel the car balance itself into a corner through the seat of your pants, these are the kind of things I'm talking about. You can have this in a 10 year old MX5, which is far less money, hence my point.
As I said before, I'm not comparing an MX5, Porsche, Caterham, BMW, or any other car in any other way. Practicality, Power, Credibility, fuel consumption, residual value etc etc don't play a part in what i'm striving for in a car at the moment. I'm sure one day they will, and when i'm in that place I probably would be in agreement that an S3 is a fun car considering how practical or well built it might be, but i'm not right now.
As I said to N8 the other day, I don't know what car I think is the right car yet, but I know what it needs to do, and that is put a bloody big smile on my face in the way that I like. I'll be keeping the S3 anyway for the misses, so I still get the benefit of the practicality, but i'll have myself a proper toy too.
Oh and Brett, there is no "winning" on a public road mate. I've never ended up in a hedge let alone one every 5 mins in any of the cars i've had, but I guess that must be down to driver skill...
Just goes to show that a 15 min test drive ain't enough! I'd never own a disease-al though I have to say, i'd rather shove wasps up my @rse!
Beanoir, just had a thought, that's it, your Driving Skill, or lack of maybe you are not pushing the S3 hard enough hehe naa all joking aside you are right it is what ever does it for you, wish you luck on finding that car,
Ha Ha! Your funny, sell the S3 then, and shutttttttt uppppppppp moaning about it