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Rolling Road done on Bluefin (S3)

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by simon-s3, May 7, 2008.

  1. simon-s3
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    simon-s3 Member

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    [May 7, 2008]
    Since there has been some debate over this I have had mine on the rolling road and will quote the figures below for you. It was a warm day, 23 degrees at time of test and there was difficulty getting enough cold air to my engine, so these figures will be lower than what I could expect to see on 1) as cooler day, 2) at speed on the road.

    Std BHP: 262 BHP @ 6505 RPM
    Std Torque: 329 NM @ 3587 RPM

    Mapped BHP: 306 BHP @ 6672 RPM
    Mapped Torque: 380 NM @ 3239 RPM

    Increase at peak:
    BHP: 44 BHP @ 6314 RPM
    Torque: 89 NM @ 3109 RPM

    I was told the Std output is normaly a bit higer than this, but due to air temp not being controoled as well as they would like, it reqad lower. At least it still hit "Stock" though.

    From the superchips website example, I am only down 4 BHP and 7 NM, so not a bad result.
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  2. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [May 7, 2008]
    Good going that mate.

    Is the Std output your original Audi map? it's not some sort of Superchips STOCK map?

    If your only 4bhp below claimed figures on a hot day id be happy with that.

    p
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  3. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [May 7, 2008]
    Superchips only ever use your cars own map as the stock version, their maps are stored on the bluefin handset rather than in the ECU as with most competitors. When you switch from mapped to stock it will always be the map your car left the factory with or last uploaded at the dealership.

    These figures sound correct and just what I would expect given the temps etc on the day, they are also in line with other tuners 'standard' before figures.

    Where was the car dyno'ed ?
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  4. S3-N
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    S3-N ?

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    [May 7, 2008]
    I'm suprised by the torque figure, seems quite low. Mine did 328lbft/444nm
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  5. simon-s3
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    simon-s3 Member

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    [May 7, 2008]
    Me too, Audi state max 350 Nm so it is well over that. I can only think that the Temp had something to do with that. If they were struggling to get the air intake temp down, then I doubt the intercooler was that cool either and we all know how a turbo doesn't like warm air.
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  6. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [May 7, 2008]
    I would be pleased with that, especially considering the conditions you describe. In fact I would spend the money on that basis.

    Does it `feel` like its making those figures on the road?

    Cheers
    Paul
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  7. simon-s3
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    simon-s3 Member

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    [May 7, 2008]
    How about;-
    Pulls harder
    No Turbo lag
    Quicker throttle response
    can hit 60 in 2nd gear
    Feels like in a lower gear, because it pulls harder form low down to the rev limiter
    feels quicker through the gears too and stronger on gear changes

    Does that help ?
    #7
  8. anty
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    anty Member

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    [May 7, 2008]
    i had a similer experience with the hot weather when i did my before and after rolling road session. i turned up relatively early so the air was cooler and by the time i did the last session, weather jumped to low 30s hence the lower figure plus they had a few cars inbetween doing their sessions.

    My findings can be found here
    http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/86500/625152.aspx#625152

    Reading back on it, it does sound slightly exagerrated due to my then enthusiasm (pulling like a train etcetc lol) but at the end of the day, it was worth it and i don't for 1 second regret having it done.
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  9. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 7, 2008]
    There are a few Bluefin threads going on but as this is the most current one I'll post here:

    After waiting for 1000 miles I have just installed Bluefin on my car and I am very pleased with the results.

    The turbo surge now comes in at about 2500 instead of 2800 and the rush is certainly more prominent. The acceleration is also definitely quicker through the mid range. There may be a bit of a flat spot at about 5k but I'm going to have to drive a bit more to suss that out.

    I noticed the difference straight away on the S3 (compared to my A3 2.0TFSI). As I pulled out of the corner down the road I changed to second whilst turning and was caught out by the rush at 2.5k and had to give it more lock before I hid the opposite curb!

    Now I have tried it myself I'm surprised that some people have complained that the difference wasn't enough. But I guess it's all relative. I spent the last few months driving an open top Land Rover around the desert, then got into my S3 and now chipped S3 so the power increases have been significant.
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  10. nicks3
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    nicks3 Member

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    [May 7, 2008]
    Bluefin sounds the way to go.
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  11. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 7, 2008]
    I'd definately recommend it Nick. I'm not trying to make my S3 an all out performance hot hatch like a few guys here, I just want a bit more power and a bit more useability. Plus the facility to put the original map back on.

    If you want power power power and are getting further performance mods then I'd get something else.
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  12. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [May 7, 2008]
    The Superchips web site puts the mapped output @ 303bhp so your up 3bhp.

    http://www.superchips.co.uk/models.php

    And the lb ft torque gain states 35lbft + 258lbft = 293lbft.

    TBH you can see why some people can't really feel the gains/think it's worth it.

    Some tuners are getting 315bhp and 320lbft, the extra 27lbft will make a hell of a lot of difference to how fast the car feels!

    p
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  13. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [May 7, 2008]
    The figures on the website represent one tested car a true representation should be an average of all but the plots are only there for reference.

    My TT made 260bhp @ 6,231rpm & 372nm @ 3,377rpm on the particular day of testing up from..

    221bhp @ 5858rpm & 310nm @ 33,361.

    I gained 39bhp & 62NM of torque on the day wether the above 'claimed' figures are accurate or not remains to be proven but more importantly the difference can definetly be felt in all gears.
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  14. phantom
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    [May 7, 2008]
    ^^^^^Agreed , Simon-s3's car is making decent gains, 306bhp on a hot day! The torque he got on the day and the torque advertised as a gain on the web site is not as much as other tuners!

    I'm not having a go at Superchips or Simon-S3 here.

    So thats why some people can't feel that much of a difference over std , as JohnnyB did , he went to GIAC and could tell the difference right away , more than likely the extra 25lbft of torque!

    p
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  15. Spin140
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    [May 7, 2008]
    Could well be the torque difference I keep meaning to dig out my plots from the awesome day for you but from memory my GIAC car produced the most torque on the day and a fair bit more than the Revo'd car which had slightly more bhp.

    I'm more than happy with the remap on the TT but I'd still go down the GIAC route for the S3/TT-S.
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  16. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [May 7, 2008]
    Off the top of my head your lbft was 315lbft.

    p
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  17. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [May 7, 2008]
    Yep, warming to Bluefin again.
    Sounds just what Dr Von-Power prescribed.

    Cheers
    Paul
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  18. simon-s3
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    simon-s3 Member

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    [May 8, 2008]

    On the day I acheived a peak gain of 89 Nm, which I believe is very respectable and has made a big difference over standard. The peak BHP gain was 43 Bhp, so that wasn't bad either. Bearing in mind My car was performing almost at "stock" figures. BHP was spot on Audi stats and the Torque was slighty down on Audi Stats, this could have been due to temperature, but non-the-less the gains over standard are respectable and very noticable. It always used to feel it had more, but couldn't give it. now it delivers and does it cleanly and quickly.
    #18
  19. L60N
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    L60N Guest

    [May 8, 2008]
    So you werent one of the lucky guys to get a 280bhp S3 right off the production line then? :lmfao:

    Ah well, the bluefin sounds like a good option. Changability is a big selling point, i'd probably take that over an all out hammer map.

    Nice write up, did they do a couple of runs and tweak things for you??

    And was it all included in the price?
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  20. simon-s3
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    simon-s3 Member

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    [May 8, 2008]
    A few more BHP can most likely be acheived on a cold day, but 180 ! "stock" who knows ? Knowing mine as a bench mark that was equal to "stock" figures, reassures me the gains are accurate in my case, which I find reassuring. Just think what I will be getting on a cooler day....320 ?.....350???? LOL ! maybe 310 or 315 more like and 10 NM more.

    Yes, my map was tweaked slightly and improved it to the figures in my post above. The original Map was still very good, but I had a feeling it was not quite performing at full potential and was a close match to the car, but not a perfect match. Over the original map I got a few extra BHP and a few extra Nm of torque from the tweaking and it feels a little more spirited now.
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  21. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [May 8, 2008]
    Which is why its always worth making the trip to the HQ in bucks where possible as the car will be put on the dyno and you will have the opportunity to mention your requirements, Superchips maps are generic but they have many variations, the postal method is very convenient but no substitute for personal service from the Guys that design the software.

    I still remain to be convinced of any stock car producing 280bhp :)
    #21
  22. nicks3
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    [May 8, 2008]
    Who does the GIAC maps in the UK?
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  23. phantom
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    [May 8, 2008]
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  24. QuickNick
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    [May 8, 2008]
    Statller will be reasonably close to you (They are in Sheffield). They remapped my S3 last week and were excellent...
    #24
  25. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [May 8, 2008]
    Convinced is a word that meny variables can be apply'd too.

    There must be more posts on this forum where STD S3's have made 275-285bhp than cars making 261bhp.....thats a fact.

    Ive seen ( and you have ) with my own eyes two cars doing it!

    Will they make the same figures on a different day and on a different rolling road? thats where the variables come into play and it remains to be seen!

    We should have a bit more proof what my cars putting out in the next day or so.....and if it's only putting out 261bhp fine i'll just get a remap , the only thing stopping me at the moment is i have a plot in my hand telling me my car is 286-296bhp and i'm the first to admit 296bhp is getting a bit silly!

    p
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  26. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [May 8, 2008]
    Did'nt think it would take you long to respond Hee Hee :)
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  27. phantom
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    [May 8, 2008]
    Were like an old nagging couple!:friends:

    p
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  28. Spin140
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    [May 8, 2008]
    Statller - superb service, give them a call and speak to steve Jnr the chaps a real star - 0114 279 8195.
    #28
  29. simon-s3
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    simon-s3 Member

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    [May 9, 2008]
    Mine was tweaked at HQ this week, hence the improved figures from the postal map. They are really helpful at HQ and my car feels better for it. As mine was Stated as producing 262 when they put the stock map back on I think I can assume that the final 306 BHP was an accurate result and to be honest a decent gain for the money. In my case I got good results for the money, however if (and a big "if" in my opinion) an S3 puts out 290 Std then you could say it is not as good value.....that said though, it's the Torque that gives you the accelleration and I bet that is way off a mapped S3 as the standard map will not be running such a high boost level and turbos increase Torque a lot.
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  30. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [May 9, 2008]
    ^^^^My car ran 288lbft Std.

    I'll have another plot from a different rollin road tommorrow!

    p
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  31. simon-s3
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    simon-s3 Member

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    [May 12, 2008]
    I've seen your plots, very commendable. Do yo know what my 380 Nm is in ft Lbs ?
    #31
  32. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 12, 2008]
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  33. simon-s3
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    simon-s3 Member

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    [May 12, 2008]
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  34. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [May 12, 2008]
    Can you scan up your plot?

    Even tho i got 300lbft at peak , it dropped off pretty quickly ( on both plots )

    p
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  35. cooni
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    [May 12, 2008]
    i don't get it...
    are all the dynos in the UK crank dynos? or are your cars sitting on rollers?
    how come all the figures look like they are crank figures and not at the wheel?
    #35
  36. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [May 12, 2008]
    There all Rolling roads mate.

    Some are ATW while some are at the fly wheel.

    Most tuners in the UK/EU use BHP figures at the fly.

    p
    #36
  37. cooni
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    cooni Member

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    [May 12, 2008]
    how do you get a fly wheel figure from rollers?

    yes, hp/bhp/kw can all easily be interconverted; i just find it interesting that everyone seems to post fly wheel figures
    #37
  38. siu00adg
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    siu00adg Member

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    [May 12, 2008]
    It's because manufacturers use fly figures, people quote bhp at the fly so it's easier to compare with other cars.

    Obviosuly it would make more sense if everyone quoted ATW but manuafacturers like quoting the bigger number for obvious reasons.
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  39. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [May 12, 2008]
    You can't REALLY get a fly wheel figure from rollers it's estimated , so in that respect it's not 100% accurate , but neither is ATW , but that is closer!

    People post fly wheel figure because thats how Audi/tuners advertise there figures in.

    p
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  40. cooni
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    cooni Member

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    [May 12, 2008]
    thats all good, esp for comparisons sake, but
    how are the dynos then calculating fly figures? a magic multiplier? surely this would introduce a LOT of error...
    unless everyone uses the same multiplier...
    #40

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