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revo upgrades

Discussion in 'Tuning' started by gburgess, Sep 26, 2003.

  1. gburgess
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    gburgess New Member

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    #1
  2. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    I think you'll find a quite a few people running Revo on the various forums....
    #2
  3. MushroomMan
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    MushroomMan Sucemabite

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    [ QUOTE ]
    S3Babee said:
    Has anyone tried these Revo software upgrades?
    They do a free 5 hour upgrade for you to test it out.

    http://www.fontain.co.uk/performance-tuning-ecu-revo.asp

    [/ QUOTE ]

    There has been a somewhat heated debate on this Forum as to whether the temporary remap reverts the car to all its original stock settings after 5 hours. People have different views but as yet I have not seen anything conclusive.

    Then there is the big debate about detectability which really amounts to a question of degrees since nothing is undetectable given the right technology. Interestingly, the competitors to Revo have started claiming undetectability for their new "serial port plug and play" remap in their own marketing literature. I guess this means revo competitors must also think that dealers and/or insurers aren't going to find out.

    Why promote undetectability unless you think consumers are trying to avoid invalidating warranty claims by stealth or as a means of not paying higher premiums or when they come to sell the car their purchasers won't know its been chipped as people seem to think that chipped cars have been thrashed.

    Anyway, I am sure someone will now open up a can of worms. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif
    #3
  4. Administrators
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    I'll think you'll also find quite a few more running other's too! I've seen some quite bizarre readings from some of the TT's on the rolling road day we had last weekend


    http://www.uk-mkivs.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16328


    http://www.goapr.com/Audi/revo/index.html


    http://www.audi-sport.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=a3s3&Number=29352&Forum=All_Forums&Words=apr%20vs%20revo&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=27837&Search=true#Post29352


    That should help /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



    I've seen some quite bizarre readings from some of the TT's on the rolling road day we had last weekend, results here-

    http://www.tt-quattro.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=834
    #4
  5. MushroomMan
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    MushroomMan Sucemabite

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Wando said:
    I've seen some quite bizarre readings from some of the TT's on the rolling road day we had last weekend, results here-

    http://www.tt-quattro.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=834


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not wrong there! Are you sure you AMD boys didn't doctor that list with tippex! But seriously though, if they are the readings then I can imagine quite a few unhappy, angry customers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif
    #5
  6. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Wando said:
    I'll think you'll also find quite a few more running other's too!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Quite right John, but that wasn't the original question was it.
    #6
  7. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    S3Babee, You should try a search on Revo, chips etc. which should give you a general idea regarding you question.
    #7
  8. Administrators
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    [ QUOTE ]
    Then there is the big debate about detectability which really amounts to a question of degrees since nothing is undetectable given the right technology. Interestingly, the competitors to Revo have started claiming undetectability for their new "serial port plug and play" remap in their own marketing literature. I guess this means revo competitors must also think that dealers and/or insurers aren't going to find out.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    The two systems work completely different, the rev-o software is loaded to the car via a laptop, the sps unit only toggles part of the software.
    The AmD unit is loaded with the piece of software, when it is connected to the car the first time it locks itself to the ECU so it cannot be used on other cars, then it downloads a copy of the standard code from the ECU and won't upload the modified code until it has a copy of the standard code on the dongle so it can revert the user to standard when required. It is a simple code swap nothing else!
    #8
  9. simont
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    simont Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    S3Babee said:
    Has anyone tried these Revo software upgrades?
    They do a free 5 hour upgrade for you to test it out.

    http://www.fontain.co.uk/performance-tuning-ecu-revo.asp

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm running revo currently - already tried AMD and APR and the revo code is fine for me, but it might not necessarily be fine for you.

    The general consensus is that you need to try the various remaps before deciding which one suits you best.

    BTW, all remaps regardless of tuner will introduce a degreee of risk that something potentially will not operate correctly - this is probably a small sample out of a lot of cars.

    PM me separately /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif and I can give you an unbiased opinion as I've had multiple maps on my car, and I can tell you about some recent turbo failures which may or may not be attributable to the remap process - two with a certain tuner not very far away. Then assess the risk yourself and hopefully you'll agree that the risks are relatively low, worth going ahead and you'll be joining us...


    #9
  10. BerkshireFlipper
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    BerkshireFlipper Member

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    if you are considering the 5 hour trial then whatever you do, DO NOT USE FONTAIN! total bunch of muppets.

    I had mine done there and they weren't sure if they had the correct software to do a 225 S3, only a 210. They then loaded something on a bit haphazardly and assured me that it would be fine. I asked them to clarify whether they had loaded the 225 S3 trial and they were unable to.

    Whatever you go for I'm sure you'll be happy with but for piece of mind don't use Fontain.

    Incidently fuel consuption has dropped from averaging 270 miles a tank to 230 since the trial without having a chip or remap done yet.
    #10
  11. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    Yep, lets just leave it at that!

    Rich
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  12. Administrators
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    well they're gonna flare up with replies like pm me.....

    That's not a discussion at all which is what this forum is supposed to be!
    anyway moving on, so Flipper that fuel consumption......?
    #12
  13. simont
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    simont Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Wando said:
    unbiased as you've had multiple maps on the same car...
    obviously you wouldn't have paid for three seperate maps and as rev-o were offering free upgrades from APR software you're gonna feel obliged to be nice! Unbiased my arse!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Steady on now - I actually paid for two of the remaps (AMD and Revo - the Revo one after I had trialled the APR for a month last year) - yep all on the same car and each with their own qualities/problems etc.

    So what is this week's issue??

    You are just demonstrating exactly why these things cannot be discussed out in the public without having things flare up, so I'd rather take things off line (via email - not PM).

    FYI, I've not said anything derogatory about 'ANY' remap company (i don't need to regarding some!!) - just my honest opinions good or bad, things to look out for and hopefully people will benefit from my 'Wisdom' - qualified or not.

    Fair enough?? I think so, so lets all BEHAVE!

    My offer stands to anyone.
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  14. Administrators
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    Behave??? cheek!

    You were the one tring to mislead, particularly in the past with your use of two logins!!! honesty..... leave that to everyone else to decide.

    APR weren't doing trials last year? they only released trial software this year!

    If I was someone looking for advice I certainly wouldn't approach anyone who has an empty profile, proper research should be done by anyone looking to have any work done, not just on forums.

    One point though is most companies are constantly developing their product, so a remap of an S3 four years ago maybe totally different to one done yesterday, particularly those done by those companies that offer the custom remaps!
    Would be good to see dyno plots from all as well, as seat of the pants feeling is notoriously unreliable.
    It is a very difficult one to answer and measure.
    #14
  15. Administrators
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    so anyway, back to flippers economy problem, anyone else noticed this?
    #15
  16. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    John, Simon,

    Come on guys, don't fall out again about this please. Not after all the effort I put in last time to patch things up.

    Lets keep things friendly.

    Simon,

    Please share your opinions on the various chips. You are one of the few people who has actually had experience of some of the main ones. I'm sure your experience and views will be appreciated by other members of the site.

    AL
    #16
  17. MushroomMan
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    MushroomMan Sucemabite

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    I've just had a look - 254 BHP is a little low given what the Revo marketers claim. AMD and APR seem to get upwards of 270 BHP and significantly higher torque too.
    #17
  18. simont
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    [ QUOTE ]
    Golf Bygone said:
    I've just had a look - 254 BHP is a little low given what the Revo marketers claim. AMD and APR seem to get upwards of 270 BHP and significantly higher torque too.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    yeah it was a little low - i got similar results - i was also at that RR day and it was a very hot day - something that needs exploring is whether or not the REVO code pulls the engine performance back to protect the engine if the intake temp is too high and other tuners code doesn't or something..

    #18
  19. Administrators
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    what about post trial though?

    not post chip, but both would be good!

    Dunc, AmD will offer generic as well, reason being there is reason in the market for both, custom being slightly better will just be positioned as the premium product, I think you'll find Jabba are already offering this service.
    We think as we've so much more experience in custom mapping we have more than enough experience to offer a very good generic, but again a custom map is the better solution but the same as Jabba we will be offering the customer the choice.

    Remember if you have lots of other modifications as well you would need a custom map anyway, we will always offer that service!
    #19
  20. Parf7
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    Wando,

    To stray slightly off topic, but not for the first time in this thread..,

    A quick question regarding the AMD re-map, Is it programmed to 95(Unleaded) or 98(Optimax)? - Cheers
    #20
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    [ QUOTE ]
    simont said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Golf Bygone said:
    I've just had a look - 254 BHP is a little low given what the Revo marketers claim. AMD and APR seem to get upwards of 270 BHP and significantly higher torque too.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    yeah it was a little low - i got similar results - i was also at that RR day and it was a very hot day - something that needs exploring is whether or not the REVO code pulls the engine performance back to protect the engine if the intake temp is too high and other tuners code doesn't or something..



    [/ QUOTE ]

    The code won't pull the power back, the code is just a set of tables that the ECU works too, it's the ECU that pulls the code back if it feels something is being pushed to hard, normally if the boost is set to high it will ease the timing off to prevent damage, so more boost is not the best way to get the most from your car, something far too often overlooked /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    #21
  22. MushroomMan
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    MushroomMan Sucemabite

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    [ QUOTE ]
    simont said: yeah it was a little low - i got similar results - i was also at that RR day and it was a very hot day - something that needs exploring is whether or not the REVO code pulls the engine performance back to protect the engine if the intake temp is too high and other tuners code doesn't or something..

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Clutching at straws, perhaps? I have a feeling that my Revo reading will be well below what I expected it to be, given the hype. Oh and BTW john, if you want me to say that on 22nd Nov, it'll cost you a tenner!!
    #22
  23. DavidR
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    A rolling road run is easy to rig. Simply put the air temp sensor somewhere warm /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif and watch the power go up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif (due to the calculations in the coversion from wheel power to engine power)

    Also, I have received NO conclusive evidence that the Serial port retune trials that don't use a Dongle thingy revert to EXACTLY the same map as before... I have been asking APR US questions via email, but there is no definative answer (not that it bothers me on a personal level, just so I can advise others)
    #23
  24. Administrators
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    David agreed, but we can have someone viewing all the results with the corrections etc on the day then /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    David, do you think the APR and rev-o stuff do the same then?
    That would be surpising! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif
    #24
  25. DuncS3
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  26. DavidR
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    John. Not questioning AmDs RR, just I know of such a story recently /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    I don't have a clue whether Revo / APR are the same code or not as I'm not a programmer. I strongly suspect that they are not. I do know that APR US have been dyno tuning cars recently in the UK to improve their products and such software will soon be available for serial tune (S3 already there). I also like the APR product due to its smooth power delivery and other characteristics.

    My point is that there have been many comments regards the REVO trial not reverting to standard, this again is something that I have no evidence for or against, but this makes me suspicious that as REVO and APR trial software is uploaded in a similar way, the potential for the APR trial software to leave the ECU non standard also exists. Its just that no one will give a clear, non ambiguous answer to these queries. Also, certain ECU derivatives have different capacities for "spare" programs, this could also affect the OEM nature post trial...

    Basically, I'm being sceptical and cautious, rather than accusatory. I simply want a clear answer to a question posed, and when I get evasive ambiguos replies I become more suspicous - but it is only that, a suspicion. I am not a programmer and could not tell whether my ECU was OEM, chipped or fluent in Greek....
    #26
  27. MushroomMan
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    MushroomMan Sucemabite

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    Agreed David, would be interesting to hear what APR have to say on the subject, perhaps we should interview all the tuners at Audi Driver International???
    #28
  29. AL_B
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    GolfTTish got banned.

    Drystone (Christian) has just had enough of the forums and all the bickering. However, OT, he's just got himself a 52reg TT in Avus Silver with Red Leather and RSTT wheels - its bloody gorgeous. IMO the best colour combination for the TT.

    AL
    #29
  30. audi_girl
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    Yeah i thought Drystone had been quiet recently - i guess we've all had our fair share of getting pissed off at the arguments recently!

    So in summary.....

    We'd all love to see some RR results from the same day on the same RR with pre chip, post chip and post trial cars.

    If anybody has anything to say please say it in public so we can all hear/discuss it - just try not to be inflammatory!

    #30
  31. Administrators
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    [ QUOTE ]
    Rob_A3 said:
    S3Babee
    I have been revoed for a couple of months now. I am very happy with it - no problems and car is much better, especially above 4000rpm where it flies rather than being strangled in standard form.

    I don't think it matters one jot who's software is in the car and all of this bickering achieves absolutely nothing. I simply chose from what my closest reputable tuner sells - I trusted them as they have a very good reputation for tuning VW and Audi (Stealth Racing).

    In the end you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between any remaps on the road.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I've driven countless different cars and the difference is very obvious, the characteristics differ greatly.
    #31
  32. RSAudi
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    [ QUOTE ]
    Wando said:


    I've driven countless different cars and the difference is very obvious, the characteristics differ greatly.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    But all are a grat improvement over standard I'd guess.

    To me using a local tuner that you can easily visit for work and help with problems is more important than the source of the maps in the chip. My opinion.

    I want to stress that I have no preference for one tuner over another.
    #32
  33. AL_B
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    [ QUOTE ]
    Golf Bygone said:

    Christian always struck me as the sensitive sort and I can imagine how all this bickering has got him feeling a little queazy. But hey, a silver TT with red leather, a big change from the Golf! But has he chipped it yet? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Nah, not overly sensitive, just got bored of the forums in general really. I can understand his feelings. I feel like that sometimes myself.

    But yeah, he loves the TT. He rang me last night "AL, its p#ssing down with rain, I'm sat in lovely leather seats, the dash is glowing lovely red colour, and I'm blasting up haslingden old road with absolutely no wheel-spin whatsoever!! Quattro is the dogs bollocks!!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    I think he'll get back into the Audi scene soon.

    As for chipping, its a BIG NO from Christian. Its his own car you see, and he's very reluctant to modify - just in case something goes wrong. I'll give him 2 months or so. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    AL
    #33
  34. RSAudi
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    Guys
    I noticed comments creeping in this trhread and others about revo or some other tuner raising boost too high and this being detrimental to turbo life.

    I lecture in one of Englands top universities and so I went to see our engines professor who specialises in turbocharging both petrol and diesels.

    Too much boost will not kill the turbo, especially a difference of 0.1bar which seems to be the most quoted range (1.4 -1.5 bar) for our petrol engines.
    Heat kills the turbo and increased boost will increase exhaust gas temperatures.

    Seems to me that when running revo (or other) settings above the default, one should consider the intercooler first to get cooler air in to turbo to offset increased exhaust gas temp.

    His (very) expert advice? Audi know best - run standard.

    I emailed BorgWarner who manufacture the turbos to ask about boost settings and optimums for K03, K03s and K04, I'll post answer if and when it arrives.
    #34
  35. AL_B
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    Thats great stuff Rob. Let us know what Borg Warner come back with.

    AL
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  36. Administrators
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    [ QUOTE ]
    Too much boost will not kill the turbo, especially a difference of 0.1bar which seems to be the most quoted range (1.4 -1.5 bar) for our petrol engines.
    Heat kills the turbo and increased boost will increase exhaust gas temperatures.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Never said boost killed the turbo directly, but you appear to have the jist of what I meant /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    It's true there's no point running too much boost, everyone's always worried about how much boost they have! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    #36
  37. ScottyKemp
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    Was thinking of chipping the S3, Stuff it ! Such a hard decision !

    If i was to chip i would go to AMD, do not ask me why, they seem to take quiet a long time to remap the car rather than ten minutes from REVO, which i my opinion means it can be set up right for the car in question !
    #37
  38. MushroomMan
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    MushroomMan Sucemabite

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    Trullalalalalala
    APR propels the car
    AmD is good for me and
    Revo surely makes you go and
    MTM is for the men.

    Hem hem hem said Bill and Ben
    Along the straight and round the bend!

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
    #38
  39. DavidR
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    [ QUOTE ]
    Andy bS3 said:
    What story would that be David /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hmm /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
    #39
  40. MushroomMan
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    MushroomMan Sucemabite

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Wando said:
    Actually it looks like wak wrote the figures down the wrong way round for Dave's, he produced 238.5bhp @5441rpm and 290.6lb/ft @3090rpm and the reason his figures were low was due to an air leak.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Can Dave verify that in writing? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/goofy.gif
    #40

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