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REVO MAP - do I?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by JB_A3_Turbo, Jul 31, 2006.

  1. JB_A3_Turbo
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    JB_A3_Turbo Member

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    [Jul 31, 2006]
    Does anyone understand the way REVO actually works?

    I'm seriously looking at getting my 1.8T REVO'd but I'm a little sceptical about it and basically don't want to screw up my car. I've heard people talk about it and say they can definitely notice a difference. My A3 is an earlier 99 so they quote it will get to around 190BHP from 150BHP.

    Does the REVO software completely wipe the existing Audi MAP and replace with a REVO designed one? Is my original Audi map still safe ?

    Thanks,
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  3. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    [Jul 31, 2006]
    i have revo on my audi S3 and its awesome! i have the SPS3 switch so can switch from stock performance (audi), to performance, timing settings, fuel, anti theft and boost.
    you can definately feel the difference especially when i run it high boost in cold conditions. im no expert dont get me wrong and i havent had experience with different companies but i like the way you can play with your settings to get the optimum performance. you have to have a good idea though. you cant set it high boost and timing in warm conditions.
    i believe you can just change back to the audi map with SPS switch, they do 3. the top one is SPS3 which i have got which are 300 quid including VAT, the SPS2 is about 200 quid inc VAT. if you go on the revo website it will explain more clearly than me.

    i love it and im very happy with mine even tho i paid 680 quid for the remap plus a forge diverter valve to cope with the extra power which is advisable
    hope this helps

    Lee
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  4. monkeytrousers
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    monkeytrousers Member

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    My comments on remaps in general are:

    watch out for your clutch! many people's clutches fail after a remap - consider it a hidden cost of remapping so you're prepared

    if driven moderately, i don't believe it will make any difference to wear and tear

    however, if booted (likely, otherwise why have it done?) then it stands to reason that it will put more stress, wear and tear on the engine.

    That said, 1.8Ts are very strong. I've had my S3 remap (261BHP) for over a year now and although my clutch had to be replaced, the engine is still as sweet as a nut.
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  5. MikeA3
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    MikeA3 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    Basically, The REVO software (like any remap) replaces the standard audi settings, the plus side of revo as i see it is that you can also buy the sps units, these allow you to change between the standard settings and the revo code.

    I'm not familiar with all of the SPS units but i believe that the SPS1 is just a simple swap unit whilst the others (as some people have said above) allow you to make more detailed changes should you want to.

    Just one other consideration is that the REVO software is a generic map

    hope that helps

    Mike
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  6. Timbo
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    Timbo Slowest car ever round the Top Gear track?!?

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    The Revo map replaces your standard map. AFAIK if you have switchable maps the "standard" map is a revo standard map, so not necessarily identical to the Audi standard map you had. I doubt you'd ever notice though.

    My 1.8T's been remapped for 25K miles now, currently on 95K miles and no clutch problems so far (touch wood). No other remap related problems either.

    True and worth mentioning, but not necessarily a bad thing - the original Audi maps are all generic!
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  7. MikeA3
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    MikeA3 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    Timbo - agreed all audis are given generic maps anyway, the point I was trying to make is that REVO is quite expensive for a generic remap @ £399 + VAT, if you were to go to Jabbasport, you could get a custom map & RR for £425 all in which would be tailor made for your vehicle.

    REVO is a good product and from the posts here they do produce a very good result but the main advantage is the ability to turn it on and off as you want to and i believe that's why most people opt for the REVO remap & a SPS system as well.
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  8. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    Jabba won't do a custom map for £425 all in. They'll upload a generic dimsport map on to your ECU then they'll see what sort of requested vs actual boost and timing pull you car is making (all basic VAG-COM stuff). If you ECU is pulling back, say cos you run crappy Tesco petrol then they'll wind things back a bit. It ain't a custom remap and is certainly no differant from what is achievable with VAG-COM, REVO and an SPS3.

    Problem is you can't alter the Jabba map yourself (not even switch back to 'stock'). On the plus side you will get a dyno plot so you know your exact power gains.

    Horses for courses really. I'd honestly say there is no significant differance on the road from a £500ish map by REVO, Jabba, Custom Code, AMD or anyone else. Why? Because the basic map is pretty much the same for all of them! They've simply tweaked them slightly here and there.

    I'd go for REVO myself:

    1) Because it gives great gains and won't kill your clutch on a 1.8T (the 1.9 PD diesels are a differant story - masses of torque)

    2) It takes 20mins to upload.

    3) You get a free 5 hour trial.

    4) There is a no-questions 30 day money back guarantee on the full code.

    5) National Dealer Network with international R&D/product support (not just one guy buying generic maps and 'tweaking' them to the best of his knowledge).

    6) The SPS.
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  9. leecs3
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    leecs3 thinking about stuff

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    do you get any extra power upgrading from a std revo to sps2?
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  10. Stringster
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    Stringster Missed gear

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    I've always been confused as to why anyone would want to switch back to stock settings once re-mapped ?
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  11. Timbo
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    Timbo Slowest car ever round the Top Gear track?!?

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    When selling the car? I think it may appeal to the people who don't tell their insurers too.

    I would have gone for Revo remap but they couldn't remap AGU ECUs at the time.

    MikeA3 - fair enough. I sometimes get the impression people look down on generic remaps whereas I don't think bespoke maps are worth it unless you've got other nonstandard parts to take into account.

    Tallpaul - interesting stuff about the Jabba remaps - I presume AmD ones (like mine) are the same then.
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  12. campbell
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    campbell Member

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    the custom maps in my opinion are only more useful than a generic map if you have uprated a lot in the engine, eg exhaust, internals, induction etc.

    why change back to stock?? well in my eyes if the girlfriend/missus is driving it then you can put it back so she doesnt write it off or kill herself! or insurance purposes.

    the SPS swicthes dont give any power more than each other. the top one SPS3 which i have you can just fiddle with more settings
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  13. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    Revo SPS1 simply allows you to turn the remap off and on. Why would you do this? Well, you should always fault find in stock mode. The dealer would fairly easily tell if your car was remapped on a test drive - may then question your warranty. You might want to sell it etc etc.

    Revo SPS2 allows you to not only turn the map on and off but also perform basic timing adjustment to allow for the use of 95 or 98 ron fuel. Plus it comes with a security system that allows you to disable the ECU.

    Revo SPS3 allows all of the above plus adjustment of boost and more control of engine timing. These functions should only be used in conjunction with VAG-COM data logging. You need to be able to measure the effects of altering boost and timing - simply whacking the boost to full won't necasserily make you go any faster!
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  14. MikeA3
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    MikeA3 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    Tallpaul - I didn't know that about the Jabba Re-maps, their website says thay do a custom map & RR for £425

    I've copied this from their website:

    All custom rolling road remaps are performed on one of our two rolling roads. Included in this service is a before and after power plot, pre and post mapping diagnostic check of all vital sensors with MAF sensor cleaning if necessary. All performed via the diagnostics port unless stated in the vehicle details section under ‘Please note’, (preceding page).

    Package includes

    * Pre diagnostic check, mechanical and software using VW diagnostic tools
    * Rolling road time
    * Mapping
    * Before and after power and torque plot
    * Post diagnostic check using VW diagnostic tools
    * Test drive / Data log
    * Approx 4 hours to perform
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  15. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    They are creating the illusion of a custom remap. Ask them who wrote the code they are using?

    In fact ask them if they have to buy in licenses for every copy the map that they upload on to each car.

    For me a Custom Remap is written specifically for your car. Jabba (if they can even do it) would charge you a lot more than £425 for that!

    These guys wrote the code that Jabba use: http://www.dimsport.com/

    £425 for a remap and before and after RR is a good price. I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between it and REVO. But, i'd prefer REVO for all the reasons stated above, it costs more but i think the extra features are worth the money. Dyno plots are for bragging to faceless people on forums, it's how it feels on the road that matters.
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  16. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    Jabba are only charging you £425 for 4 hours workshop time?

    If they were fixing something then 4 hours would be 4 x £45+vat (or maybe £60+??), so once you factor in the overheads of the RR and buying the map from Dimsport, how much 'Custom' mapping are you actually paying for?

    The answer is that they are bulk buying generic maps and dressing up the whole thing with diagnostic checking, and dyno plots.

    Any REVO dealer (or any other VAG tuner worth his salt) will check for fault codes before they do anything to the car. After the work is completed they'll road test it and recheck for faults to ensure it's all OK. Jabba aren't doing anything differant.
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  17. MikeA3
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    MikeA3 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    I know of a few people on here who have been to Jabbasport and been very happy with the remap service they offer, I would really hope they are not trying to "fool" their customers.

    Mike
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  18. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Aug 1, 2006]

    And cue someone completely missing the point.

    Jabba don't sell custom remaps for £425, simple as that.

    Are the maps they sell any worse (or for that matter better) than their equivelant priced competitors? No.

    The map they load will have a couple of parameters tweeked to suit the specific running of your car ie Timing and Boost. They do not write custom software, they buy it from Dimsport and use Dimsport's own software tools to alter these settings. This is basically exactly the same as altering REVO with an SPS3. The changes Jabba make are logged using VAG-COM on their rolling road - this saves driving anywhere and has the handy marketing effect of people thinking that they really are 'tuning' your car, not just clicking buttons on a laptop.

    The bottom line is that Jabba, REVO et al all offer similar power gains for similar money because basically they are all doing the same thing. Serial Port Mapping isn't rocket science.

    Jabba aren't intentionally fooling people - they are advertising ~40bhp gain and that's what you are getting. The problem is people then go around saying that Jabba is a custom remap and REVO isn't. This remap is better than that one etc etc. All the while they obviously don't have a clue!

    If i were parting with £400 - 500 i'd want to know exactly what i'm paying for. This thread has shown that plenty of people haven't a clue what's involved in serial port tuning yet they will happily spend several hundred pounds on it!

    I too know people that have/do use Jabba frequently. They're all happy too.

    Then again, i know people that have REVO, AMD, CC blah blah blah.

    Do you get the point yet? :smile:
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  19. bantam1
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    bantam1 Member

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    [Aug 1, 2006]
    For those without access to software and the ability to make these (however minor) tweeks, through equipment or knowledge, is this not of benefit in anyway whatsoever?

    I don't know the answer but would be interested in it. If these tweeks aren't actually doing anything beneficial, and are in fact cosmetic, then is there any other reason for them than the customer seeing something being done. If there is benefit then doesn't that justify them for clients who may not get this with a 'generic' map that isn't tweeked for their car?

    Cheers,

    B
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  20. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Aug 2, 2006]
    As stated, the 'settings' in any remap are alterable with the corresponding software tools. This is the same for Jabba as it is for REVO etc etc. It's all down to marketing:

    Jabba market their basic remap as a 'custom' package and highlight this on their website. So their marketing pitch is that you are getting a tailor made remap specific to your car that'll take 4 hours for them to do.

    On the other hand REVO market their product as a plug and play, 20 min to setup package. In reality, before REVO is installed the dealer will scan for faults just like Jabba. They'll then upload the software just like Jabba. Take it out for a testdrive on the road, Jabba have an RR so no need for them to hit the tarmac. They'll again check that no faults have occured due to the remap and that the car isn't hitting limp mode, making silly timing pulls etc all just like Jabba. I've heard many examples of cars going in for REVO and it taking a couple of hours to get everything sorted, then again it can take minutes.

    My only point is that Jabba is not offering a custom remap for £425. What they are calling 'custom' is no differant from all the other maps at a similar price point.

    Obviously i could repeat myself ad infinitum (and it feels like i am) and still the choice is down to the individual. Again, as i've stated before, the differance on the road between a Jabba £425 remap or a REVO £500 remap or any other remap would not be noticeable. The plus point (in my opinion) of a Jabba remap is the before and after dyno plots. The advantage of REVO is switchability and ability to setup ones car themselves IF THEY WISH - you could just as easily never touch it and it'll be fine.
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  21. MikeA3
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    MikeA3 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 2, 2006]
    Tall Paul

    From what you've explained the "custom" map doesn't seem to be as specific as I first thought - as you say it's all down to marketing at the end of the day but I wasn't aware that you could alter the settings that much using vag.com. I have never used it, but from what i have read on the forum I thought it's main use was as a diagnostic tool to help find any faults with the car.

    I'd be interested to find out what (if any) gains could be obtained from a standard car using vag.com.

    Mike
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  22. Tallpaul
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    Tallpaul Member

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    [Aug 2, 2006]
    you can't alter any of the things i've mentioned using VAG-COM; The alterations need to be made with software specific to the remap eg Dimsport, Lemminiwinks etc. How these changes are affecting your car are measured using VAG-COM.

    You cannot make gains to a stock map using these software tools. They are designed specifically to work with their respective remaps and alter those enhanced parameters.
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