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Replacing and re-coding dash clocks in S4?

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by calvin, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. calvin
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    calvin parked up

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    [Dec 22, 2009]
    Hi all,

    Due to recent demise of a certain forum member who has gone missing with my dash clocks (amongst other people's belongings) I am trying to work out the best way to get back on the road.

    I have located a couple of options for a set of clocks (mine's a pre-facelift '98 S4), but am aware that they need to be re-coded to my ECU. (if anyone else has a set, I'm interested!! - PM me please!)

    Am I correct in my assumptions, and why is this - what is the process?

    ..and is there anyone on here who can do that for me, do you know of a specialist, or do I have to brave a main dealer (my two local ones are rubbish on anything that isnt brand new)

    I need to get my car back on the road as soon as poss in the new year, I can wait but want to get my options sorted so I can buy (or not!) the set of clocks.

    Cheers in advance.
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  3. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 22, 2009]
    You need VagTacho to read the SKC from the new cluster and then program your existing keys and ecu to it.

    There are a few on here with it, or you can get it on ebay.

    Not tooo challenging to do though.
    #2
  4. calvin
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    [Dec 22, 2009]
    Fantastic, thanks Aragorn.

    So this little box of bits on the 'bay should enable me to sort it out. I'm pretty ok with IT and programming, so looks good to me. For that money its worth a punt.

    So my process would be to install new dash clocks, then do as you say. And it looks like the software would enable me to reset the other functions like service indicators and error messages - do you know if the mileage from the "new" clocks would be retained or will it get mine from the ECU. I want to preserve the accuracy and heritage of my car as its relatively low mileage still.

    cheers for your help.
    #3
  5. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 22, 2009]
    I would stick to vagcom for the actual programming.

    Just use VagTacho to get the Pin code, and then you can program it with vagcom.

    You'll lose the mileage, its stored in the clocks, however looking at that ebay page it shows the mileage being adjusted. Might not work on all clocks though.
    #4
  6. calvin
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    [Dec 22, 2009]
    hmmm - I dont have VAGCom either, so not sure I want to go splashing out on yet more kit - if there's someone recommended I can pay to do the work, that sounds like a better plan..

    or has anyone here got / used this VAGTacho setup - does it work for this purpose on this vehicle?:shrug:
    #5
  7. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 23, 2009]
    where are you?
    #6
  8. calvin
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    [Dec 23, 2009]
    Sunny Sussex. (!)
    #7
  9. calvin
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    [Jan 3, 2010]
    ok, I've still not heard a peep from Siena from the multitude of emails, texts and phone attempts that I've made and now I REALLY need to get my S4 back on the road.

    Before I try to make arrangements (and spend yet more cash on something that wasnt broken!) to get my car mobile again by buying some second hand clocks and go thru the palava of finding someone (that I CAN trust) to recode them to the car and my keys etc..

    1. Has anyone ACTUALLY spoken to him in the past 2 weeks (I know it was Christmas!) if so, who and when?! Is he ok but incapacitated, or has he done a runner?!

    2. Can anyone south of London (and trustworthy!) let me know for sure that a second hand set of clocks can definately be de-coded, then re-coded to my car, ECU and keys, and ideally reset the mileage to what it was before all this happened?

    3. If ANYONE out there has the diagnostics kit available within a 50 or so mile radius of Gatwick, that would enable me to at least get my car started with a replacement set of clocks, (I can trailer my car anywhere if needed), please let me know (on here rather than PM)

    any other thoughts or helpful ideas (or options on second hand clocks!) appreciated.
    #8
  10. rasA4
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    rasA4 Four Rings Mafia Specialist

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    [Jan 3, 2010]
    3. they will need vagtacho or you could get one yourself something like this Linky
    #9
  11. calvin
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    [Jan 3, 2010]
    Cheers RasA4 - I enquired to a seller of that same ebay VagTacho kit and they said it wouldnt work on the S4 1998 dash... Also, Shark_90 reckons they are often rip-offs and no guarantee it will get the codes off I need.

    Do you have any experience of the one off Ebay? Anyone!?
    #10
  12. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 3, 2010]
    Well suffice to say i have just pulled an SKC code from a 1998 dash with an Ebay cable no problems, i logged into the cluster without a problem afterwards.

    I never got to reprogram the keys to try it as my car battery gave up, so its charging now for a bash in the morning
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  13. calvin
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    [Jan 3, 2010]
    cool, thanks for that.

    So you have the same vagtacho kit as per the ebay link, and you have an 1998 S4? (sorry to be pedantic, you dont mention the car and I just want to be sure)

    Let us know how you get on with the reprogramming!

    Out of interest, what has given you cause to reprogram a dash and keys etc?
    #12
  14. rasA4
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    rasA4 Four Rings Mafia Specialist

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    [Jan 3, 2010]
    it was on his previous A4 was a 1.8 SE with a 1.8T engine, reason for change was poor DIS display which had faded, changed out for new cluster.
    #13
  15. calvin
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    [Jan 3, 2010]
    so its quite possible that the S4 cluster is different and therefore cant be de-coded or reprogrammed by the ebay cable kit?
    #14
  16. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 3, 2010]
    Its a real S4 cluster hes been playing with, and it was on his quattro, not the old car.
    #15
  17. olds_kool
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    olds_kool Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 4, 2010]
    ive used the vag tacho ebay cable to pull skc on a 97 98 99 and an 01 a4 and a 98 a3
    ive coded keys to all of them but used vag com
    only issues i had was it wouldnt alter mileage on the 97 cluster with immo 1 and keys needed new transponders, but all s4 clusters are immo 2
    i currently run an s4 cluster from a 98 or 99 in my 1.8tqs so theres no issue with pulling code but as i said i never actually used it to program keys so couldnt tell you if it will or not, i dont see why not though

    if using vag tacho its a bit trial and error to find correct bit that will connect to correct cluster but ive not come across one that wont work
    #16
  18. rasA4
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    rasA4 Four Rings Mafia Specialist

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    [Jan 4, 2010]
    soz aragorn.. misread Byzan post, however he has also changed the cluster on his old A4 as well
    #17
  19. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 8, 2010]
    Ok so i played today at Recodeing the S4 dash to my 1999 facelift TQS to a 98 S4 dash. The code was easy to pull, the keys coded easily and the car ran fine and for once i had a working DIS.

    However the damn thing would set the alarm off as soon as the 30 secs arming time was over. Upon looking again i notice the boot warning logo no longer comes up.

    So i am back to the TQS dash and a lockable/alarmable car but a dodgy DIS. The S4 dash must be from a 98 car without the boot/door warning.

    In summary the Ebay Vag Tacho will pull SKCs and code keys fine on an immo 2 dash from either a 99 A4 or a 98 S4 with no problems at all
    #18
  20. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [Jan 8, 2010]
    I thought about getting s4 clocks but there not much different to the tqs ones. If you were totaly stuck you could tow the car to audi and get them to plug it in and code everything? I had to do this when i changed ecu,cost me £56.
    #19
  21. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 8, 2010]
    The car runs fine mate, will decode onto the IMMO fine, its an issue with the prefacelift and facelift with electirc boot and DIS indication of boot condition. The facelifts with a digi clock display the doors open too, so i assume that would be as bad.

    The main difference was i prefer the dark dash over the light TQS dash. Oh and the DIS is dodgey as expected
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  22. calvin
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    [Jan 8, 2010]
    ooh - bugger. Is this likely to cause me an issue with my planned recode too?

    my car is a '98 pre-facelift (analgoue clock too) and the clocks I have just bought are from a 2001 late, facelift S4..

    plugged it all in yesterday, and car started (for one second as expected) and immo lamp was flashing as anticipated, but am I likely to see more issues when I get the decode and try re-flashing everything?

    sorry to hear your mission was scuppered Mark - can you not disable the boot condition from VAG-COM?
    #21
  23. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 8, 2010]
    i would bet if i had your dash and you had mine we would be fine, its the way it is mate.

    Try yours and let me know how you get on

    You may be lucky as there wont be the signal where it shouldnt be, so may be ok unless the new dash is immo3 with the digi clock, then you may have probs.

    Like i said let me know, i am sure we can get you mobile i have the 98 Dash SKC etc so should speed intergration up :drool:
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2010
    #22
  24. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [Jan 8, 2010]
    I bet a facelift s4 clocks would go in a facelift a4 on and the same between a pre facelift s4 and a4. Little swap maybe?
    #23
  25. macca
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    macca Member

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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    well i ahve vagtacho and 409.1/311 vagcom, and from very near gatwick, and work at gatwick, i am familiar only with doing this on golf mkiv r32's but i am willing to assist with equipment and the knowledge i do have, i am in IT so understand most of it.

    becareful playing with epprom dump/writing with vagtacho as a failed write may damage the clocks.

    it sounds like you need to recode the immobilser at the evry least, that is why the car starts and dies. however i think you need the skc code from the old clocks and need them for getting the settings, so you may have some work getting everything configured, i'll look into it though. PM me if you want help as not on here much.
    #24
  26. macca
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    macca Member

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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    re the boot open, cannot we not find the hex data required to be changed in the eeprom then burn back up to clocks.

    on the golfs i change the codes to enable miles to empty and have the needles permantly lit. just trying to find the info is the hard bit.
    #25
  27. calvin
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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    Thanks Macca - PM sent. Any help appreciated, its the not being able to work stuff out due to lack of equipment that aggravates me! I wont be able to get the old clock SKU as theat obviously went wherever the old clocks now reside, but I can confirm my new facelift dash has the analogue clock. (which, ironically, is sitting there working perfectly now, and was the reason I took the old fookin dash out in the first place!!)
    #26
  28. olds_kool
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    olds_kool Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    if yours are facelift analogue and marks are pre facelift why not swap to avoid any problems, you only need skc for the cluster your fitting by the way not the one that was removed
    #27
  29. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    The soft code can be worked out and the SKC can be dragged from the cluster going in. I am not 100% sure what triggers the alarm on my car wen the s4 dash is fitted the boot signal is my best guess as the DIS doesnt put the boot open symbol up.

    The alarm fault code says alarm triggered by int monitering, i even tried switching the int monitering off by that silly B pillar button and it still went off.

    Macca, not sure on altering the bits i am sure i would brick it if i did !!! lol
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  30. rasA4
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    rasA4 Four Rings Mafia Specialist

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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    cant possibly be a late 2001 S4 dash with anologue clock most likely a late 98/early 99
    #29
  31. calvin
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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    Fair point, it was taken from a Y plate S4 (at least thats the car it was removed from) but the seller had bought a "messed up" S4, so who knows where it originated!
    #30
  32. calvin
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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    **** UPDATE!!!! ****

    Thanks to absolute diamond Macca I am back up and running!

    Simon came over this morning and basically got the SKC code using VAGTacho, then managed to recode my keys (all 3) to the new cluster. Huge thanks to you Simon. It probably would have taken less than an hour if I hadnt been talking to him so much... ;)

    I still have a couple of minor issues to look into but didnt feel it fair to keep him here any longer (poor chap was almost frozen solid by the time he left!):

    I have a brake pad wear fault showing in the top section (O) which shouldnt be there as far as I know (there was no fault showing before the car was parked up)
    The radio details dont show in the cluster (might be due to the first fault?)
    I dont seem to be able to adjust the clock time (tho clock is working)
    I cannot adjust the dimming on the dash (might be related to the above, tho I can hear a faint ticking (relay?) behind the centre console with the ignition in position 1)

    none of these are a huge issue, but might be cluster faults, or a software / firmware issue?

    Anyway, will now run the car for a bit and see if I can eradicate the brake fault before I look any further into the rest.

    If you need VW / Audi (esp S4 electrics!!) - Macca is definately the man to speak to. After all the cr@p I've had with Siena, he's a breath of fresh air- HIGHLY recommended and very approachable and flexible.

    ...can you tell I am pleased and very grateful!!?
    #31
  33. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    You prob will not irradicate the issue, it will be hard wired in. There is a softcode change to remove pad warning. I would however bet that the incompats are similar to my problems , ie age related

    FWIW my S4 cluster is 8D0 919 930K , i have the softcode some where.... Anyway it's from a 98 Car

    I am glad you are mobile again, a nice feeling isnt it? The cluster you bought was it from Simon ( twostrokepower) he has an RS4 now

    I may cannibalise this cluster and use the s4 faces as it looks much better IMHO
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
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  34. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    Time for a swap between marks cluster and calvins methinks?
    #33
  35. rasA4
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    rasA4 Four Rings Mafia Specialist

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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    yea swapies
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  36. macca
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    macca Member

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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    right, thanks for the thanks,

    i will look into these calvin and see what i can do, i was a little cold and needed more time to get familiar with the s4 clusters as the info from rosstech was not correct, theoretically your clocks shouldn't be working at all according to the info.

    i'll pop the radio over for you to try sometime, and i'll need to code that in for you as you have the bose setup which i didn't have, when i do that i can take a look at correcting the soft coding.

    currently the soft coding is 05462
    #35
  37. macca
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    macca Member

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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    Mark, try using vagcom to code the int sensor as permantly off and see what happens. just a thought.
    #36
  38. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    No way i can see to switch it off, i can reduce the sesitivity to 50% which i tried. The stupid thing is it goes off as soon as the waiting is over, and when i add the fact the dis doesnt display the boot open, i feel my assumtion is reasonable.

    I am p!ss*d off as i missed a brand new uncoded cluster with the same number as mine recently, the law of sod huh!

    Meh !
    #37
  39. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    I suspect the only way to properly cure the issues (calvins brake pad warnings, and marks alarm activation) is to run it with the correct wiring harness, which isnt going to happen.

    Swapping clusters makes sense...

    Mark, your S4 cluster is spare? Why not send it to calvin to see if he can get it working on his car, and if he can then you can have the facelift clocks he has?
    #38
  40. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    Aragorn, not my call.

    Like i said i may just rip the templates from these like the old dash/speedo kits you used to get from lockwood,lol
    #39
  41. calvin
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    [Jan 9, 2010]
    Byzan - if Macca doesnt mind another trip to me (as I've got the garage ;)) then I'm up for trying yours in my car - I think you know him already so know you can trust us to return them to you.

    I just had another look at something, and there is a definate clicking in the dash that sounds like a relay trying to activate something - it HAS to have something to do with either the radio or brake sensor issue. It stops after about 30 seconds and I noticed that I can sort of change the dash brightness, but the clicking seems to reset it back to bright..

    I am intrigued by one thing, how can you tell a pre and post facelift cluster apart? Mine *looks* identical to what I took out, the clock is the same and the S4 logo is in the same place. Anyone got a pic of a pre / post - here's mine sorry for the quality, iphone camera is rubbish so was trying to hold a torch at the same time!)

    ....hmmm - problems uploading pics - the upload gives me an undefined error (!!) - I'll try again in a mo...

    [​IMG]

    btw Byzan - will pull the clocks out again tomorrow to recheck the connections and also to get the part code from the back - will see how it compares to yours.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
    #40

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