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Replaced Fuel Injection Pump - Can't Get ECU Pin Code

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by steamship, Aug 23, 2013.

  1. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    Been away from here for some time, and now looking for help.

    I have a 2001 A4 2.5 TQS. The fuel injection pump died on me, and I eventually got a replacement one. Mechanic fitted it, but can't get the ECU pin code necessary to encode the pump to the car. Has used both Vagcom and VAG tacho. Vagcom confirms no engine start because of immobiliser. The following is the relevant section from the scan:

    Address 01: Engine Labels: 059-907-401-AKE.clb
    Part No: 8E0 907 401 C
    Component: 2.5L V6 TDI 0000SG 0004
    Coding: 02015
    Shop #: WSC 63351
    VCID: 254BEF4DBFFA271
    WAUZZZ8E22A071776 AUZ6Z0A0151941


    4 Faults Found:
    01318 - Control Module for Injection Pump (J399)
    03-00 - No Signal
    01318 - Control Module for Injection Pump (J399)
    49-00 - No Communications
    17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
    P1570 - 35-00 -
    01375 - Valves for Engine Mounting; Stage 1
    38-10 - Output won't Switch or Short to Plus - Intermittent
    Readiness: N/A


    Has tried every ECU option in VAG tacho. Only two show as connected, but then say they don't recognise it (sorry, but can't remember which ones).

    I tried Audis Erwin online system, but won't work with any browser I have. Emailed them and after several exchanges with car details I was told they don't have one. In desperation, I called my local Audi (70 mile away) and was told that they can retrieve the code, but only by connecting the car to their diagnostic equipment which then connects to a server in Germany. Cost is 80 quid, assuming nothing else needs done. I just need to hire a car transporter for the 140 mile round trip.

    Before I do this as a last resort, is there any other option that hasn't been covered yet with regards to getting the code?

    Any help would be more than appreciated.
    #1
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  2. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    It's a bit more involved than that ! I would buy a super vag k+ can and read the codes from the engine NOT from the instrument cluster as you're more likely will damage the instrument cluster ! Then you need the v6 tdi diesel pump swap instructions on rosstech wiki ! Hope this helps !
    #2
  3. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    I thought I had a fair idea of what the mechanic was trying to do until I read your response :)

    How will reading the codes from the engine help, when I need the code from the instrument cluster. Also curious about '...will damage the instrument cluster' comment. If he's only scanning it, how can he damage it?
    #3
  4. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    The code for immobiliser is also held into the ecu memory, scanning the immobiliser will result in a bricked instrument cluster !
    #4
  5. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    Cheers for that. Let's hope he's trying to read the ECU. Too many electronics, and it's a 2001 car. Hate to think what todays cars are like to work with. Mechanics must need a degree in electronics as well.
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  6. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    Been awhile with me not being able to get to the mechanic. Anyway, I got a vag k+can cable of eBay and we tried it out. Was able to read the pin from the engine ECU as recommended by adamss24. Swapped cable over to the vagcom one, and with instructions printed out from the Ross-Tech site, tried to encode the new pump. Followed the instructions exactly as given, it didn't object to the pin code on either of the two times it is requested. On the second one it says Waiting in the top box and then displays a number (can't remember if it was VIN or IMMO-ID. Exited out of vagcom and switched ignition off for a minute as instructed. Then tried starting car, but still no luck. Checked vagcom for errors and it gave the same three as before:

    01318 - Control Module for Injection Pump (J399)
    03-00 - No Signal
    01318 - Control Module for Injection Pump (J399)
    49-00 - No Communications
    17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
    P1570 - 35-00 -

    Tried clearing the codes, but they just keep coming back. Suggests one of two things. Either we're doing something wrong, even though we've followed the instructions to the letter (and vagcom isn't complaining about wrong pin codes) or worse, the fuel pump I got as a replacement is also knackered.

    Any suggestions (other than scrapping the car) on what to do next? Also, is there any way to communicate with the fuel pump to find out if it actually works?

    #6
  7. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    Look with vagcom in engine, measuring blocks 18, you should have voltage in both fields. You need the pin from both cars ECU in order to swap the pumps as they are locked to the ECU/immobiliser...
    #7
  8. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    Cheers for that. Looks like I'm screwed then as the pump came from a scrapped car, with the part sitting on a shelf at a breakers.

    Out of curiosity anyway, which code do you use when? The Ross-Tech guide here (Immobilizer III Injection Pump Swapping - Ross-Tech Wiki) mentions entering the pin twice during the procedure. It doesn't state which pin is which.
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  9. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    You need the pin from your car so you get the ECU in learning mode and the pin off the new pump's ecu to get it matched to the ECU/engine... You might need to go to a dealer to program-it for you, unless you get the key and ECU from the other pump it will be hard to match.
    #9
  10. pauldazzle
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    pauldazzle Member

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    Don't know if this would be a solution, but Lee Metcalf at MOT 7 in Hull can supply you an ECU with the immobiliser disabled (£75 standard or £95 remapped). I've just had a mapped ECU off him & it was plug & play, I only had to code/enable the cruise control.
    #10
  11. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    ^^^That's one way to do it !
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  12. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    Sorry if I'm being thick here (and I am), but which ECU are you referring to? Would it be a fuel pump ECU, as adamss24 mentioned needing the pin from that as well (3 posts up)? A standard one would do, as I just need to get the car running again so that I can sell it.

    Two further questions about this before I call him, as I can't afford to throw any more money at this.

    1. Assuming it's the fuel pump ECU, how easy/difficult are they to replace and can it be done in situ.
    2. Assuming part 1 is done, is there anything needing done in vagcom? Don't have cruise control, so no matter there.
    #12
  13. pauldazzle
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    pauldazzle Member

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    PM'd
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  14. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    Much appreciated. Will call him in the morning.
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  15. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    if you have immo delete then it will start with any ECU. You do not touch the pump EDC, it has an immo as well but they do comunicate with the instrument cluster/ECU wia CAN BUS...
    #15
  16. Paul @ Unit
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    Paul @ Unit Active Member

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    I've got a super vag k used once in box and film over screen for £50 delivered
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  17. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    Finally got around to sending the ECU off to MOT7 to have the immo deleted. Got it back and managed to reinstall this morning, but still no joy. It's still throwing up the following two errors, which to me implies that the pump I got is also kaput.

    01318 - Control Module for Injection Pump (J399)
    03-00 - No Signal
    01318 - Control Module for Injection Pump (J399)
    49-00 - No Communications

    The mechanic used his magic box to clear the codes, but they just keep coming back. I'll try and contact the breakers again, but it took me ages to track that pump down in the first place.

    A reconditioned pump is out of the question for me (at around £600).
    #17
  18. pauldazzle
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    pauldazzle Member

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    #18
  19. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    What does it say in measuring blocks 18 ? interested in 1st and 2nd block of numbers...
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  20. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    First two numbers in block 18 read as follows:

    Supply voltage injection pump - 0.00V
    Supply voltage from ECM - 11.63V

    Does this imply that there could be an issue with the wiring to the pump - or worse?
    #20
  21. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    more likely a blown fuse on the second feed.

    Never was going to start with no power
    #21
  22. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    Well that sounds easier and cheaper to resolve, but which fuse, and where is it?

    Should have mentioned in my previous post that I also checked all the fuses (to side of dash) after reading the comment by adamss24 in his response to the post by quattrojames on the same issue, and none of them had blown.
    #22
  23. pauldazzle
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    pauldazzle Member

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    This may help.
    Presumably the fuse is OK? I know it’s a daft question but you never know. The fuel pump fuse is number 28 in the dash side fuse box. The wire you are interested in is a green/yellow at the pump connector pin 1 and this runs through the car to the left front A pillar behind the kick panel trim to a blue 6 point connecter at position 3 and this point can get corroded due to the A4’s propensity for water leaks into the passenger’s side. From the connector it runs uninterrupted to the fuse box at fuse position 28. Check with a multimeter the continuity from point “a” at fuse 28 to the A pillar connector and if that is OK, to the fuel tank connector from the A pillar. If these prove to be OK and power is getting to fuse 28 from the relay then it is probably a faulty fuel pump.
    #23
  24. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    Another month and another ordeal. The latest on this saga. Having not been able to sort the problem out, the mechanic decided it was time to give me the car back (to free up space). When he told me this he also threw in a comment about the J399 codes not being there when he first looked at the car (before the other fuel pump was put in). This got me thinking, so off I go to eBay and bought a cheap Vagcom cable. When I got it (and after checking the Rosstech site), I hooked it up and duly got the J399 codes. I tried clearing them but they kept coming back. Fine so far.

    Since I still had my original pump, I literally set it on top of the engine and plugged it in, and again checked it with VCDS. The J399 codes were there from before, so I cleared them, but this time they didn't come back. Strange. So I decided to change the pumps over and see what was what. I got a copy of Elsawin and printed out all the instructions for removing and fitting the injection pump. After all, in the words of Top Gear, 'how hard can it be?' Anyway, got it swapped over and bled the thing, but wouldn't start. Checked with VCDS again and got a different code (Quantity adjuster, from memory). Cleared it and tried again. Wouldn't start. This error was seen randomly over about a dozen attempts. Did some more reading and ended up sending pump to ecu-testing to get the ecu fixed. Got it back, installed it, bled it and still won't start.

    I've bled it according to instuctions in Elsawin and everything seems fine, but when cranking it over, there still seems to be air in the system. The pump in the boot is working fine. The car is sitting level and the tank's 3/4 full. What else is there left to try... other than a gallon of petrol and a box of matches!
    #24
  25. pauldazzle
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    pauldazzle Member

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    Air in the system can be a bu**ger to clear. Are you getting fuel to the fuel fliter?
    #25
  26. deano1978
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    deano1978 different gear

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    I had air in my fuel line,n was a bugger to start. I got my mrs car n hooked it up to jump start,worked a treat for me.
    #26
  27. S4_dan
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    S4_dan Fire up the Quattro!

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    On an A6 2.5 after changing the filter the car wouldn't start, so I phoned a garage I used to work at years ago and they said to spray WD40 up the intake AFTER the MAF whilst cranking. Sure enough the car started, ran lumpy for 30secs whilst getting the air out then ran great.

    Worth trying....but make sure battery fully charged or as above, jump from another car.
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  28. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    Got the air out of it. Found a video on YouTube where you basically take the pipe from the filter to the pump, and keeping it as vertical as possible, dribble diesel into it until its full. Then connect it back to the filter. Seems to have worked as no more air bubbles during cranking.

    Unfortunately I live in the back of beyond. Getting onto the main road is a 1/4 trip up a steep pothole ridden lane, and then the road itself is full of bends and hills.

    Will do some shopping and give that a blast tomorrow.
    #28
  29. S4_dan
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    S4_dan Fire up the Quattro!

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    Any joy in getting her started?
    #29
  30. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    Never got a chance. Been pi**ing it down all day. Which also meant I didn't get any gardening done either.
    #30
  31. abyrne153
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    abyrne153 Member

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    I had the same problem a couple of years ago. Sent the ECU for the pump to ECU Testing for repair and although it got the car running it was never quite right after. Difficult cold starting , very strong fumes on tick over etc. The pump failed again end of last year and this time I got it reconditioned which included a new ECU. It might have been twice as expensive bit it really transformed the car. Much smoother running , starts first go hot or cold, more power, easier on diesel. I would be keen to see how yours works out. Make sure you slacken some of the injectors when cranking to bleed them through. Don't tighten them until you see the bubbles stop and the engine begins to catch or starts .
    #31
  32. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    So some dry weather and another bash at the car. Someone suggested Holts Easystart (they also suggested brake cleaner as well) and spraying in that after the MAF sensor. Had the battery on the charge overnight and also using jumps leads from another running car. Car turns over and starts with the easystart, but will only run with that being constantly sprayed in. Clear fuel line from filter showing no signs of airlock. Had a visitor spray it for me while I sat in the car, but throttle pedal has no effect whatsoever.

    Just checked the throttle with VCDS and it's responding properly.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
    #32
  33. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    What's the part number of your old pump originally fitted to the car ? It looks the "new" pump you got it's a dud...
    #33
  34. S4_dan
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    S4_dan Fire up the Quattro!

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    I think he is back to using his old/original pump chris?
    #34
  35. abyrne153
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    abyrne153 Member

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    Are you sure that the static timing is ok. Had you locked the crank with the locking bolt and the pump with the locking pin? Are you getting diesel at the injectors during cranking ? Slacken a couple of pipes to the injector and spin the starter and see if you are getting diesel and check codes again to see if pump is generating faults.
    #35
  36. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    As S4_Dan says, I'm back using my original pump. It was the ECU that was at fault, which was repaired by ECU Testing.

    Followed the instructions in Elsawin to the letter, and double checked everything before and after I did it. Pipes have all been slackened and diesel flowing whilst cranking. Also coming out under pressure. No fault codes at all with engine, as did a scan earlier today prior to working on it, and then again when I checked the throttle was responding correctly.
    #36
  37. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    If you're getting 0 volts in field 1 then the pump is duff and it gets no power hence the no start condition... I have had pumps repaired before and the issue was a stuck advance piston so no amount of ecu repair would fix them...people never listen and end up spending more than a refurbished pump cost in the 1st place, just because they want to do it on the cheap !
    #37
  38. abyrne153
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    abyrne153 Member

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    I would strongly recommend you listen to the advice from Chris Adams. There is absolutely nothing he doesn't know about these cars and he generously shares his knowledge on this forum. There are only a couple of places in Ireland that can refurbish the VP44 pump Omagh Diesel Services is one of them and there is another place DES in Shercock Co Cavan. Price both and then compare prices to places in England. Do your own research but Diesel Bob in Lancashire seems one of the best and even with postage costs it may work out cheaper for you to send it over. He may even have a pump off the shelf that can be sent on an exchange basis to save you time.
    Don't be tempted to swap the repaired ECU from your pump to the one you bought as it is unlikely to run right if at all. The ECU needs to be calibrated to the pump. I have been through both repairs and I can assure you there is no comparison. A reconditioned pump is the only way to go.
    #38
  39. steamship
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    steamship Member

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    I'm now back with my old pump in the car, having had the ECU repaired. I remembered what you had said in post #19 and checked the voltage, and both were over 12v.

    Have followed Chris's advice and others on here. Wouldn't even contemplate swapping the ECU, as it means cutting and patching wires. I went to the extra expense and sent the entire pump off to ECU testing, so that I wouldn't have to worry about fiddling around with wires.
    #39
  40. abyrne153
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    abyrne153 Member

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    When I got my ECU repaired I didn't take the pump off the car yet when I refitted the ecu the pump timing was impossible to set. It was way out of kilter and no amount of effort could get it timed right. I ended up swinging it to full advance just to get it to go. Static timing hadn't been changed yet it was way still way out. In winter it was a pig to start and the smoke filled the yard. I'm glad i live in the back of beyond where the neighbours couldn't see. When hot it was hard to start too and had flat spots etc. Yet the pump threw no fault codes and when running diagnostics looked fine. It wasn't until I got the pump fully reconditioned that I realised how bad it was. Now it starts first touch hot or cold and timing the pump was no problem. You could try swinging the timing one way or another to see if it starts. ECU Testing only repaired your ecu and it can't test or calibrate the pump mechanics. It is only my opinion but I think these pumps are so precise that they don't like being messed with. The only way you will be sure is if you send the pump to a Bosch specialist with the proper equipment to check the VP44. It would look as if you are doing everything else right but I can't think of any way you can test the pump properly unless you send it away.
    #40

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