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remaps and normal unleaded petrol

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by m8arx, Jan 13, 2011.

  1. m8arx
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    m8arx Member

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    i've been toying with the idea of getting my s3 remapped, but i was emailing nick from r-tech yesterday about it and they will only map your car if it's using v-power or super unleaded.

    with the price of fuel these days and the fact i've been using normal unleaded in the car since i've got it - i'm not prepared to pay the extra money just to allow me to remap the car. (it's 131.9p per litre up here for normal unleaded which is a frickin rip off - and about 137.9 for super/v)

    has anyone got a car remapped, whether it be using custom code/revo/a.n.other that are using unleaded as opposed to super/vpower?
    #1
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  3. hades-
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    hades- Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    well if r-tech carry on refuseing to map on normal unleded there gona miss bussiness

    yeah v-power etc is better but i know loads of lads that run nirmal unleded with a map iv even run my stage 3 on normal for a few weeks no harm done
    #2
  4. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    My hybrid was actually mapped on normal unleaded it wasnt till after mapping i remembered that it was the cheap stuff
    #3
  5. Optimum Tuning
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    Optimum Tuning www.optimumtuning.co.uk

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    More ignition timing adjustments can be made with v-power due to the higher octane rating hence more power. When we remap cars usually stage 1 would be used with standard fuel. Im still running v-power due it being mapped v-power but then again it isnt my daily driver!
    #4
  6. m8arx
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    m8arx Member

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    cool - i'll give the trip to r-tech a miss then and just get a custom code stage 1 :)
    #5
  7. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    some map e.g revo, the timing can be adjusted to suit the fuel with the aid of a revo switching device !
    #6
  8. DaveA3
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    DaveA3 Audi A-Trizzle!

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    im pretty sure its advised if u want more power but can be done with normal fuel. are u sure ur not gettin the wrong end of the stick? nick aint like that at all
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  9. [Dave B]
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    [Dave B] Daddy

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    Jabba asked me which way I'd like to go, I said 'more power please', and they said 'VPower' :)
    #8
  10. m8arx
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    m8arx Member

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    no wrong end of the stick - i quote the email from him

    " We would not tune a ko4 engine which is going to be used on the cheaper fuel, just due to the ignition pull, we need the ignition correct to achieve the power without getting high EGT on the stock exhaust system"
    #9
  11. higher1
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    higher1 Member

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    im using standard unleaded fuel with a revo stage 1 re-map and the guy struggled to get good advance on it he said it was pretty comon when using standard fuel

    im still very pleased with the out come tho
    #10
  12. sportquattro
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    sportquattro Active Member

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    Normal unleaded here, have run V-Power and cant detect any difference except in my wallet.
    #11
  13. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    I'm fairly sure it even says in the handbook that the S3 engine should be run on 98RON fuel or higher.... I know for a fact it's written inside the fuel cap on 225 TT's as I had an argument about it with a guy in a petrol station.

    Seriously guys, I can imagine these kind of comments from an 18 year old with a 1.6 A3, but not from you lot.

    IF you've got an S3, but you can't afford to put the right fuel in it, then perhaps you should reconsider your choice of car for something more well suited to your income.....
    #12
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  14. DenCar
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    DenCar Member

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    From A3 Handbook 2002.

    Power 75 KW 95 RON Premium. 92 KW 95 RON Premium. 110 KW 95 RON Premium. 132 KW 98 RON (Super Unleaded)

    75, 92, 110 KW can also run on 91 Regular with slight loss of power.
    132 KW can run on 95 Premium with slight loss of power.

    DC
    #13
  15. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    The man has a point...

    I have seen the difference lower grade fuels have on power on the dyno.... running anything other than super unleaded in a remapped turbo car is a sin... ;)

    <tuffty/>
    #14
  16. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    i ran Vpower then switched to normal unleaded as it was more convenient - changing back to Vpower i noticed the top end change from say a 20mph blast - i use a particular stretch of road to gauge this and the difference was obvious - thats custom code stage 1
    #15
  17. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    I have seen losses of 20 to 30 bhp before now... had cars in to be mapped not making the power only to find the customer is running 95ron... Revo can be adjusted to suit easily with SPS box, others rely on the ECU pulling timing back although some can be 'tuned' to use 95ron if requested (can't remember what ones and how off hand, Bill will know)

    Regardless of fuel cost etc, if you give the car some 'welly' (pun intended mate ;P) it will drink regardless but you will get better mileage on higher octane driving part throttle as the extra timing advance will make the engine pull better for the same amount of fuel mix in the cylinder... 95ron fuel will promote pre-ignition generating knock meaning the ECU will pull timing and you will have to put your foot down more to get the same out...

    <tuffty/>
    #16
  18. Lemon S3
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    Lemon S3 Alex

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    It deffinately says on the inside of my fuel cap to use at least 98RON fuel.
    #17
  19. DJ_Troopa
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    DJ_Troopa K1 Driver

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    100% agree with Prawns comment.

    Same here with my fuel cap. I've always run V-Power in my car, best to keep it running at its best!
    #18
  20. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    X 3
    #19
  21. jojo
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    jojo Looking for Boost! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 13, 2011]
    Isn't the idea of remapping the car is to get the most performance out of it? I don't see any problem with a tuner/mapper refusing to map a car running on supermarket fuel, kinds of defeats the point of a remap.

    I mean seriously, who get's their car remapped in the hope for better fuel economy? The moment you plant your foot all the way down for your maximum torque @3k revs, your fuel economy goes down the window! :racer:

    Enjoy it whilst you can fellow ASN member's, it may be expensive now and most likely in the long term, but we won't have petrol forever, it will run out eventually, and only available to the rich eventually. Our kids will be driving hybrids/electric cars come their turn to enjoy the motoring world!(speaking on behalf of ASNers in my age range naturally :moa:)
    #20
  22. djarchive
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    djarchive Member

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    [Jan 14, 2011]

    X4 :eyebrows:


    :icon_thumright:
    #21
  23. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Jan 14, 2011]
    As much as I hate it, x 5
    #22
  24. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Jan 14, 2011]
    Bioethanol is the future for high performance IMO. And you can grow/make your own!
    #23
  25. R-tech_Nick
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    R-tech_Nick Member

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    Hello, As regards to 95 - 98 fuel on a spec1 ko4 mapped car, I am going by what I see, even stock cars will get huge timing pull when running 95 and raised egts. Inside these me7.5 ecus there are two boost/load related tables one for running low CF and one for when the ecu continues to see constant CF, the knock load map will reduce the boost to pull the CF back and egts lower. For the lads running 95 on a 260bhp 260lbft K04 on a stock exhaust just find 10 min to do some data logging, or get on a dyno and see whats going on. I am sure you will end up on V-power once you fully understand. 95 to 98 or vpower could be the upto 25lbft 20bhp. Nick
    #24
  26. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    The S3 drivers manual does say something about 95 RON fuel. It says something like, only use if you have to and not for too long. I'll check the book later and quote it.

    Anyway I have done VCDS logs and get timing pulls of around 6 degrees with 99Ron fuel. When I went to the Ring last year I filled up with 103RON fuel and did more logs and saw nothing higher than 1.5 degrees while doing a lap of the ring! I dread to think how high my timing pulls would be on 95 fuel! Maybe 9+, which is not good.
    #25
  27. finesse
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    finesse Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    Petrol is expensive regardleds. £25 spent on fuel equates to 19.23litres of normal unleaded at £1.30 or 18.38 litres of super at £1.36

    Less than a litre in difference..........
    #26
  28. monkey_lewis
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    monkey_lewis Reverse Gear

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    he does have a very valid point power and slightly off the subject fuel econemy goes up well, personally i find tescos momentum is the best value for money at the moment, its just trying to get it round my head that putting more expensive fuel in is better all round.... this is have mental problems with.... my hand never connects to my brain i always end up opting for the standard stuff in a standard car.....
    #27
  29. mk1chopper
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    mk1chopper Missing the S3

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    Im sure the label on my fuel flap says 95-98ron but the higher is recomended. But as others have pointed out, if your worried about fuel prices and mpg why get the car remapped in the first place?
    #28
  30. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    The label does say 95 or 98, and the manual states that the engine will produce a reduced output on 95. That IS talking about the stock engine though. Once mapped running it on 95 is more dodgy.

    The cost difference is minimal though.

    To fill our A4 (typically 50litres) it costs £62.50 for normal unleaded (1.25 a litre at our local tesco) and £65 for super unleaded (1.30 a litre at our local tesco)

    £2.50 extra for the whole tank.

    To put that into context, the 50L of fuel at 28mpg returns 308miles, meaning 20.3p a mile for normal and 21.1p a mile for super. So a 20mile drive will cost you £4.06 on normal and £4.22 on super.

    Buy one less beer at the weekend and put the good stuff in.
    #29
  31. fran-s3
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    fran-s3 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    I have an APS stage 1 remap - and been running normal 95 RON since the crazy fuel prices. Does this mean I could of damaged my engine? Seems to be running fine at the moment - will fill up with V-Power every month it's just so dam expensive. (Yes I admit I now can't afford to run 98 all the time, my bad.)
    #30
  32. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    You shouldn't damage your engine as the ECU will adjust fueling to prevent detonation. You will however get reduced power as a result of this ignition change.
    #31
  33. fran-s3
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    fran-s3 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    ok thanks Westle - will stock up with V-Power a lot more often from now on... Do you have to reset anything when going to back to 98 or should the ECU detect it over time? (heard about the foot on accelerator a dozen time when ignition is on to reset some sort of values - not sure how true it is if that method works!)
    #32
  34. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    The Ecu will learn after a couple of tanks of fuel but if you have VCDS there is a way to reset the fuel trims so that it resets. Alternatively I believe leaving the battery disconnected for a while has the same effect.
    #33
  35. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    You really cant afford an extra £2.50 a tank?

    I realise everyones financial circumstances are different, but its £2.50...

    Unless you're tanking it up more than 4 or 5 times a month its such a small amount of money you cant honestly suggest you cant afford the extra cash to run it on the right stuff?
    #34
  36. JS1500
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    JS1500 Howdy

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    I bet some people who run an S3 on regular are the same folk who have Sky+ with every channel and a £50/month smartphone contract...
    But that extra £5/month would just tip them over the edge into financial ruin.

    The opposite would be the guy who I work with who puts V-Power and an octane booster in to his Fiesta Zetec-S - equates to £1.51/L and is completely unneccesary!
    #35
  37. [Dave B]
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    [Dave B] Daddy

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    There seems to be more and more people trying to run S3's on a shoestring, it just doesn't make any sense to me......
    #36
  38. Nilz
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    Nilz Defo worth the wait :)

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    The cost of petrol is what it is nowadays, if you have an S3, why not run it to the best it can be, I know V Power is more expensive, but its better for the car, and in standard form is made to run better on it (or other premium petrols).

    I have noticed that although its more expensive, I actually get more miles out of it when compared to normal unleaded, so the extra cost is not extra really, as it balances itself out with the miles that I get.
    #37
  39. jdas03
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    jdas03 Member

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    We are talking pennies here, if you can afford the remap and insurance hike then a couple of pennies on good fuel will make no difference.
    Its your car but sure the point of a map is the added power, if you arent running it on the better fuel i dont see the point remapping it!
    #38
  40. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    one less pint of beer for every tank....
    #39
  41. JS1500
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    JS1500 Howdy

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    [Mar 9, 2011]
    Now you put it like that i'm switching to regular 95!
    #40

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