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Remap or go all out

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by DieselJake, Aug 30, 2013.

  1. DieselJake
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    DieselJake God Mode

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    [Aug 30, 2013]
    Been tinkering with the idea of a map for quite some time now, but saw a decent kit today and not sure wether to go all out taking it to Darkside Developments for more power (and money). The car's a 1.9tdi 5 speed 130bhp, gets 170bhp with a basic map but the kit gets it to 220bhp. Only thing is I'm not sure wether the kit will be a slippery slope to bankruptcy as it will surely need a better intercooler, clutch, flywheel, maybe more (... either way it'll probably need the clutch and flywheel). Also seems everyone goes 6 speed although I can't understand the benefits of 6 gears and have no idea how to go about sorting that if needs be.

    Here's a link to the kit: Darkside 1.9 & 2.0 TDI Budget Turbo Kit inc Fitting and Mapping - Darkside Developments
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  3. Stu-pid
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    Stu-pid Member

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    [Aug 30, 2013]
    It's a good bit of kit a friend of mine has just had it done to a skoda fabia. Speak to the guys down there, they didn't wind it up to full boost because his clutch needed changing. Once that's done it will be turned up to it'd fill potential
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  4. tom2
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    tom2 Member

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    [Aug 30, 2013]
    If I were you I'd get the remap done and then decide whether to take it further. As for the 6 gears, for road use its a nice to have on motorways etc... I do a lot of track days and found 6 gears better when you are really going for it as the first five gears are a slightly closer ratio which enables you to keep the revs right in the power range, but for road use I wouldnt bother with the hassle/expense of changing it. Just fit a decent clutch/flywheel as the torque will kill a cheapo one.
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  5. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 30, 2013]
    The pd 130 will do 220Bhp max with just a turbo upgrade, EGR delete and very good map, just forget about tuning the 5 speed gearbox, it won't take the torque. I have upgraded to a 240mm clutch and single mass flywheel on one of my cars and with the map for the bv43 turbo the box lasted just 3000 miles before syncromesh on 3rd broke ! I would say go for a quattro sport if you ever think of going that way otherwise do as the rest- remap it and call it a day ! After driving many 4 cylinders diesel engines the best upgrade is going for a new car with a larger engine !
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  6. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Aug 30, 2013]
    That price does not include VAT and you will need a new Sachs Engineering clutch + a stronger DMF which they don't do so your only option is to go single mass flywheel which will kill the box eventually !
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  7. DieselJake
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    DieselJake God Mode

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    [Aug 30, 2013]
    Jeez, looking a bit out of the question now haha why the heck does the price not include VAT :blink: as if it's not already a fair bit of cash. Maybe I could just change the turbo, decat and get it mapped to cut costs. Then go for a decent clutch and DMF when sh*t hits the fan. Totally agree that it would be better to having a newer car with a larger engine but insurance and my bank won't permit that haha. Would just get a map then decide what to do from there but would rather get it all done at once and not have to pay twice for mapping.
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  8. GeoffDunk
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    GeoffDunk Active Member

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    [Aug 30, 2013]
    I had a very simular remap in my 130 Passat, I purchased the car at 89k, remapped it at 101k to 170 BHP (loads of torque) and sold it at 205k and it never ever let me down. I changed cambelts, tyres, service, 2CV joints and 1 radiator. I never spent any more on any other failures in that 100K.

    Its a great engine and will take the 170 map and last, mine did and I drove it pretty hard all the time and I did 100k with the remap active.

    As for the increase to 220 BHP I can't really comment but 170 was enough for the fun factor and I would worry about the G/box at 220 BHP.

    Just thought I'd give my 2 peneth!
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  9. DieselJake
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    DieselJake God Mode

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    [Aug 31, 2013]
    Woah that's not bad hitting 200+k, maybe I'll just map and leave it for reliabilities sake, just hit 100k in mine.
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  10. Mollygoogle
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    Mollygoogle Member

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    [Aug 31, 2013]
    I'm on 131k running 178bhp with a DTUK tuning box and a decat, 5spd box, standard clutch of unknown age though its FSH with receipts and no mention of a replacement clutch. Car drives amazing
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  11. Paul @ Unit 9 Remaps
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    Paul @ Unit 9 Remaps Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    [Aug 31, 2013]
    Where you located. we offer a great mapping service. also an APR dealer based up the north east. Why not try a map first to see if its enough
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  12. DieselJake
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    DieselJake God Mode

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    [Aug 31, 2013]
    Sounds pretty interesting, usually in Birmingham or North London though so may be a fair way out :crying:
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  13. choimaloy
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    choimaloy Member

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    [Sep 1, 2013]
    Hi Paul26982 I've been debating whether to get my 130 tdi a4 remapped,where abouts are you based as I'm from ferryhill In County Durham so I could pop in for a chat and see what's available for me mate.​
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  14. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 1, 2013]
    Drop by when you're in N. London and i'll talk you trough what's required for 200Bhp reliable...
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  15. DieselJake
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    DieselJake God Mode

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    [Sep 1, 2013]
    Cheers, reread an old post of yours which confirmed you're undoubtedly the top man to talk with, spec of your motor is undoubtedly worth my left kidney. Think I may have actually seen your car around Hatfield about half a year back, would definitely be down for a chat, chances are seeing yours will put me in a financial crisis though haha.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
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  16. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 1, 2013]
    Jake, i have many projects on the side, the 1.9 tdi is just one of them ! My current drive is the fjtwelve's old a6 wich got a new heart runing under the bonnet !
    The old a4 is still not fixed, it's waiting for a quattro conversion ! Bought the donor already but too busy with work !
    I am sure you seen my old ride 6 months ago, it hasn't moved for a few good months now- looking sorry for itself to be honest !
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  17. Paul @ Unit 9 Remaps
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    Paul @ Unit 9 Remaps Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    [Sep 1, 2013]
    Pm sent
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  18. robotplant
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    robotplant Member

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    [Sep 1, 2013]
    Adamss24 has done a couple of jobs for me now the last a major cam belt service and I can't recommend him highly enough. A no nonsense straight talking bloke who really knows his Audis inside out, just wished I lived a bit closer. I just make sure I organise all my Audi needs with my visits to to N London.

    Next job for Chris is a hybrid turbo for my 2.5 V6...can't wait!.

    John
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  19. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 1, 2013]
    John, getting the turbo ready to send to machining, it should not take that long to get it back, took a few pictures of it's internals as well ! I need to upload them on photobucket and i'll put a few links here as well ! Cheers !
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  20. robotplant
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    [Sep 1, 2013]
    Hi Chris,

    I'm hoping to make a trip down your way in 2/3 weeks now as I'm excited to wake the "beast" up some more! :yes:.

    I've changed the intercooler and have noticed an improvement in pick up. Not had a chance to check in the day time whether it's cut down the smoke on pick up. Might get an improvement in mpg as well, I was at 32mpg on the motorway that was at 85/90mph though.

    Will I be okay with my standard clutch? No idea if the clutch has been changed since new. With the Hybrid turbo fitted I'll be around the 250/260hp range, so could I be looking at a new clutch soon if so what clutch pack?

    Really enjoying the car now just wish I'd bought one years ago.
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  21. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 1, 2013]
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  22. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 1, 2013]
    The stock LUK clutch is fine with over 270Bhp and 550Nm, if you really want a meaner clutch then the rs4 stage 1 clutch from Loba motorsport is a good upgrade, the rs4 boys are running over 600Bhp and 650Nm of torque trough them without major issues...

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    #21
  23. robotplant
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    robotplant Member

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    [Sep 2, 2013]
    Thanks for the info on the clutches Chris. I'll consider my options if and when I get any clutch slip..."if it ant broke don't fix it".

    Can you give us some more info on the turbos in the photos? I take it the hybrid turbo is the one on the left, don't want you to divulge your trade secrets :whistle2::icon_thumright: just want some more general info.

    Thanks John.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
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  24. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 3, 2013]
    The turbo features a 56mm compressor wheel (superback 6+6 blades of the latest generation), stronger turbine shafts- also from latest generation GTB turbo with twin staggered gap seals, 360 degrees bearings all balanced on high speed VSR machines. You get a better flowing VNT ring, a compressor wheel that can run 260bhp all day long and a better flowing turbine all machined in the stock housing for a plug and play solution ! The donor turbo had a 56mm wheel with a 40mm trim, i upgrade it to a 45mm trim also 56mm. The compressor wheel is off a GTB turbo from mercedes v6 CDI and is designed to run 247Bhp from factory, they all remap to 300 Bhp with ease ! Of course the mercedes turbo has 500cc more displacement and better fuel system but as i said, it will do 260Bhp all day long with great midrange punch and unbelievable top end ! You will need larger nozzles for full potential, the standard nozzles cannot flow more than 220-240Bhp...
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  25. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 3, 2013]
    The closest spec turbo available on the market from Turbo Dynamics has the stock gt 20 turbine coupled with a 60mm compressor wheel but they "cut back" the turbine blades to stop it from surging ! This is a poor match between the turbine and compressor wheel considering you only get a larger compressor wheel with a chocked turbine who can barely flow 240 Bhp without cut blades ! The old md438 that was on FjTwelve's old audi a6 (which is mine now !) barely mustered 266 Bhp on dyno with large nozzles so their claims of 270Bhp is bull !
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  26. robotplant
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    robotplant Member

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    [Sep 3, 2013]
    Thanks for the over view on the turbo Chris sounds the dogs b***cks! Was hoping I would be nearer the 250bhp mark with out going down the larger injector route, still want one though.

    With the hybrid turbo fitted to my V6 and a tweak to the map I'll be in the same hp range as the Audi v6 3.0tdi (240hp), I guess the 2.5tdi hybrid will have a meaner quicker mid range, how would the engines compare performance wise?
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  27. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 3, 2013]
    It's not as hardcore as some other turbos i've built but then a good turbo is a compromise between top end, good midrange pull and quick spool up ! The gt2056 with smaller trim turbine/comp. wheel are really quick at building boost and will give you whiplash in 2nd and 3rd gear, they are faster than a 3.0tdi but a bit more coarse. The 3.0Tdi has a constant wave of torque, the 2.5 tdi is a bit more raw due to fewer emission restrictions ! Get rid of the pre-cat and main cats and you will build boost almost instantly, how's 1200rpm's sounds ?

    On my car the gt2060 was quicker at building boost low down than the gt2260/gt2266 but did not have the same midrange and top end, close but not the same ! If i had more time then i would have done a comparison between the 3 of them...
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  28. robotplant
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    robotplant Member

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    [Sep 4, 2013]
    Very interesting and like I have said in an earlier post wished I was a bit nearer to you I would love to spend some time with you working on the v6's and gaining some better knowledge on the cars.

    I've got rid of the main cats and I'm sure I never had the pre cats.

    I will be giving you a ring as soon as I've got a date to bring the car down which all been well won't be to long now.

    Cheers John.
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