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Remap help!

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by bigpapasmurf, Jul 30, 2012.

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  1. bigpapasmurf

    bigpapasmurf Member

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    So I've had my wee S3 for a couple of months now and its great. I was thinking of getting it remapped so I took it to the local Revo dealer who said that it felt standard. He put a trial map on it which would last for 5 hours and then revert back to standard. However, I noticed no difference at all. It was pretty obvious that it had been remapped already. As such I was a little nervous that it would revert to stock after 5 hours. Sure enough today its as slow as anything! To say I'm a little annoyed is an understatement. Ive now got to fork out £350 to put my car back to how it was a week ago! Has anyone had anything like this happen before? I know its a stupid thing to have done, but being given the advice that its standard in the first place is whats really annoying!
     
  2. jezzy

    jezzy Member

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    didnt you go straight back and say it feels the same?
    go back and say something about not being happy and see what happens.
    the can only say feck off.
    i read something a while back that those trial maps are a fecker to overwrite, but things have moved on alot and maybe they can be overwritten now.
    badger or tuffy would know more about this kind of thing
     
  3. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure revo have to put your map back as it was before, including taking off the trial, the trials are an arse as well as you can't write over them without doing it on a bench flash unless the revo dealer flashes it back to an original stock map!

    The revo dealer really should have checked first whether it wa mapped or not, a simple run and a log would have told them so.
     
  4. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    Thats bad... he should have logged it first tbh... if you drive tuned cars for a living as you map them then it can be tricky to tell whats mapped and what isn't... whos to say that the std feeling of the car was not down to other issues like a boost leak or similar making it down on power in the first place...

    Logging and scanning a car before performing a remap to establish if the car is up to the task is a must IMO and anyone that doesn't do it should be avoided...

    I would take it up with Revo if you have no luck with the tuner... he should have realised you had a map on there and maybe even spotted any problems you may be having to make your car feel down on power..

    <tuffty/>
     
  5. jezzy

    jezzy Member

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    or beachbuggy aswell
    apologies dan.
    im still waiting for the other member for the other thing dan
     
  6. bigpapasmurf

    bigpapasmurf Member

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    Thanks for the info, really appreciate it. Should have probably asked on the forum how to check it was mapped in the first place!! :p

    Yeah I phoned the place as soon as I got to work, half an hour after picking it up. I told them about my concern about having it revert to stock rather than reverting back to whatever map was on it before...

    Im going to go in and have a word with them on Wednesday morning, but its a bit unprofessional to offer no way back. Not to mention not realising that its mapped in the first place. Surely logging boost pressure from the OBD would flag it up that it was mapped straight away?!?!
     
  7. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    Yes it should... logging boost request will tell you whats going on along with airflow as these will be higher than std assuming of course the tuner in question knows what to look for in the first place...

    Even if you engine was down on power for what ever reason boost request will be higher than std...

    <tuffty/>
     
  8. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
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    this is why I ALWAYS dyno a car BEFORE doing anything....
    poor choice of revo dealer to take it to in this instance unfortunately..

    even if the revo dealer did'nt have a dyno, he does have a laptop and could have easily logged requested boost for example to confirm facts BEFORE just overwriting the existing file with a trial.

    Trials are not endorsed or advised by Revo for some time, so why he did that and not any pre-checks is not ideal!

    Unless he read out the ecu file before hand (which is unlikely given the circumstance) your previous modded file has been lost.

    You can try and go back and put it to him and see what they can offer, whoever it was.
     
  9. bigpapasmurf

    bigpapasmurf Member

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    Gutted. Sounds like I've well and truly screwed the pooch. As an asside, is there much difference in stage 1 remaps? Can I use this as a way of getting a better map? Is revo actually any good?
     
  10. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
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    big difference between good maps and bad ones
     
  11. bigpapasmurf

    bigpapasmurf Member

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    Yeah went to the place today and said that I could have a REVO with 20% off or nothing basically. Bit pissed off as Ive really liked the garage until this happened. Sort of makes you not want to bother at all with them if their attitude is so ambivalent.

    So where is a good place to go for a remap and what do I look for etc etc? Preferably somewhere in Edinburgh! :p
     
  12. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    I'd check the sponsors forum :)

    <tuffty/>
     
  13. s33nyboy12

    s33nyboy12 Well-Known Member

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  14. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
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    did they mention revo is actually on offer at that level anyhows currently? *cough*
    see the banner on revo website > Revo | Welcome to Revo
     
  15. BENJAMIN

    BENJAMIN Active Member

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    Have you contacted Revo hq and explained the situation?
    Theyre a helpful bunch and may be more productive in helping.
    There no is 01327 301901
     
  16. bigpapasmurf

    bigpapasmurf Member

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    Thanks for the heads up. I phoned them this morning and spoke to Mandy who was pretty helpful. However, she said that they no longer supported the trial maps and that it is not normal procedure to take the previous map off and store it for later re-flash. She also said that you would get an “after” data log print out of the proper map to show what the car is producing. She didn’t seem to agree that an “after” graph is the square root of useless if there is no “before”. To be honest, not happy with how any of it has played out. As such, I am not going to be getting a Revo remap. Ever.

    So back to my original question; whats the best map to get. Had a look at the Shark Performance ones, look good but anyone had any experiences?

    Thanks!
     
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  17. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
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    without a before, how can an after be gauged?
    these are OLD CARS...
    inevitably they are 90% fecked to begin with... rotted pipes, leaking pcv's, tired maf's, tired turbos etc etc

    hardly any 1.8t's I see manage stock power these days, where 2-3 years ago they did.

    flash and go, with just logs of after proves next to nothing...
    find somewhere which has a dyno, logs it before, checks it before, and can do more than stick someone else's map in it, is my advise..
     
  18. Brodster

    Brodster Shark Performance in Scotland
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    I've replied to your email and sent you a PM.
     
  19. bigpapasmurf

    bigpapasmurf Member

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    So I went to see Mark at Brotek the other day. Helpful lad, but ultimately we couldnt get anything looked at because the "trial" Revo remap that I had has locked the ECU such that it cant be remapped with anything other than a Revo now. The joys. So Im left with two options, go back to the first place and get a Revo (dont really want to hand over money for all the sh!t Ive had to deal with) or take it Audi for a health check and get them to reset the ECU. If you take it to a main dealer and get them to run a full diagnosis, would they be able to wipe the slate clean, in terms of the ECU? Last thing I want to do is waste my time taking it to Audi, them say that that its all hunky-dory and that the ECU is reset, take it back to Brotek and the same thing to happen!! Beginning to regret starting this whole remap thing :crying:
     
  20. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    Actually you can flash over Revo... it can be bench flashed so I am assuming Mark hasn't got the kit for this? Bill @ Badger5 has done this loads of times

    <tuffty/>
     
  21. Brodster

    Brodster Shark Performance in Scotland
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    Hi Nicol. As Shark HQ stated Audi should be able to load software updates onto your car so the ECU will get erased and loaded with Audi info. Why the Revo dealer didnt take a copy of your original map I dont know. Thats why some people opt to have the SPS switch (Revo) or the STS (Shark) so that they can load the original map back onto the car so they dont lose the performance one. Its also for warranty stuff too but thats a different ball game. I think if you book it in for a health check they should plug in and check for updates which should load Audi software. I know the service manager at Edinburgh Audi so I will give him a bell and find out then I will give you a phone.
     
  22. Brodster

    Brodster Shark Performance in Scotland
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    Its going into Boot Mode to remap it. The problem is that the actual ECU is refusing to be read.......A locked ECU normally bins you out straight away but this didnt. It thought about it for approx 5-10 mins then the error log came up. :think:
     
  23. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
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    ahh... hummm... most odd... never had that issue with Galletto and boot mode...

    <tuffty/>
     
  24. colicabcadam

    colicabcadam Guest

    take it back, they caused the problem, not you, bring up everything mentioned in this forum !!
     
  25. Buzzer

    Buzzer Member

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    The revo was a trial, and should have been just that. I'm sure revo would be able to unlock and remove their own software and no need for you to bring it to Audi. I would also insist that they look after you proberly on a new remap as a gesture of good will, also restore some confidence on this site.
     
  26. Brodster

    Brodster Shark Performance in Scotland
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    They can but the dont have a copy of his original map. The trial was written over it which is wrong as theres no back up to revert to IF anything goes wrong which it has here. If he wants the Revo which I think he doesnt then there's not alot the Revo dealer can do. The only thing open to Nicol is going to Audi or Revo take it to Audi.
     
  27. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    Audi wont be able to do anything either, becuase the Revo file will have blocked the OBD flashing routines.

    You'll need to do a bench flash in boot mode. This is not something Audi would even contemplate doing.

    Nothing the Revo code has done can block a proper boot mode bench flash, as the code isnt running, only the CPU's boot loader.

    Brodster: Are you saying the ECU failed to flash properly with it out the car, on a bench, with the correct internal pins shorted out at boot time? Or did you just try to flash it in the car?
     
  28. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
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    what bench flash tool are you using?
    Never ever had an issue over flashing something previously revo on the bench. boot mode always works with my kit.. (have have several flash tools)

    the revo dealer who flashed it originally has revo stock files, which can be flashed ontop of trial... so it gets it back to stock file, which then can take a normal port flash... BUT, it will boot mode regardless.

    something up with your hardware perhaps..

    the original "tuned file" however is lost forever..

    boot back to stock, then flash your code over.. back up the E2 before doing any of this is my advise, seeing its on the bench and apart anyhows... you never know when you might need it ;)

    Shark flash tool is the Alientec Powergate I believe yea?
    [​IMG]

    Or you have this as your dealer tool Kess V2 slave
    [​IMG]

    An ebay galletto or MPPS may serve you better to boot it back to life perhaps
     
  29. bigpapasmurf

    bigpapasmurf Member

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    Thanks for all your help and info guys, but Im more confused than ever now :huh: Might take it back to Autohaus and see what they have to say about it all. Having said that, they got a bit stroppy about it when I said that they should have backed up the old map in the first place... Buzzer, I have spoken to Revo already and have basically been told that they dont support the trial maps any more, but they would be happy for me to buy a full blown Revo map from them. Im my mind, thats basically washing their hands of the whole thing...
     
  30. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    Yeh i wouldnt be giving revo another penny, and i'd be considering taking Autohaus to small claims court for the cost of a new remap.

    You just need to find a tuner that actually knows what their doing, and you'll be able to have the car sorted and re-remapped no problem.
     
  31. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator
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    I'm lost for words how many "flash" merchants with no actual knowledge there are out there
     
  32. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    To be fair, it's hard to see how this is Revo's issue.

    Their dealers buy into a franchise model, and in those rare cases where they make mistakes or errors of judgement it's not for Revo HQ to pick up the pieces, I think the issue sits squarely with the tuning house themselves.

    I had a chap come round here recently for some VCDS coding changes, and he wasn't sure that he had Revo on the car or not. I connected my basic SPS switch and a laptop, and voila within seconds we had changed the B/T/F settings that the previous owner had set to zero and he was away! I'm an idiot and thought to check this route before sending him off to a dealer, so I'm surprised / disappointed that the company you went to didn't check first.

    I'm really disappointed for you that this has happened, and I'm surprised that the tuner is being so unreasonable about it. I take it you did make it clear to them that you thought there was code on there to start with? If so this should have been their first port of call. Could you contact the previous owner to get any clarification of whether car was mapped and by whom? Long shot but might help your case.
     
  33. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    If Revo "dont support" the trial code, then they dealers shouldnt be installing it. If they do install it, they should be making very clear to any prospective trialee that the code is "at your own risk, and WILL remove any existing remap"

    Revo themselves have a responsibility to ensure their dealers operate in a safe and professional manner, and ensure any customers are correctly informed of any risks or potential issues with using the software. The reason people use Revo, is because they're a trusted brand. If a particular Revo product is no longer supported, then its hardly a good reflection on the brand if dealers randomly continue installing it anyway. If a complaint is made about a dealer, their answer shouldnt be "tough ****". At the very least they should be having words with the dealer and trying to resolve the complaint, and it would be good to see a goodwill gesture of a little more than a 20% discount thats already available to any joe that walks in off the street anyway, given that afterall, the cost to them for installing that remap file is almost zero.

    Pretty much confirms all that i originally suspected about these big companies tbh, and i'd suggest that the OP takes his car to someone like Bill at B5 or Nick at RTech, who actually provide a decent level of service and arent just flash and dash tuners.
     
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  34. bigal 1

    bigal 1 Active Member

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    Prawn here:

    seem pretty ****ing clear to me.

    you car felt fast, you took it somewhere for a trial service to see if you want to spend moeny with them, and now it feels slow.

    you didn't ask for it to be made slower. Your car is now worse as a direct result of their actions.

    if your old file has gone, then they should give you a Revo map free of charge. it's that simple.

    accept nothing less.
     
  35. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
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    its not revo who over flashed your car is it... so why would it be there fault?

    the trials have not been endorsed for a long time now, well before your car was flashed...

    if i recall correctly, this trial map was flashed to prove if yours was already mapped? as opposed read your ecu and compare as std, or even just log the thing where it would have been obvious at that point.

    autohouse or whoever did this could have done more... if what you have described as what they understood was your conversation.
     
  36. beachbuggy

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    Why read? Why not just flash a stock file back on? If its a revo map then i am sure they also flash the EEPROM at the same time with their software so this might an issue for you possibly why it's not reading.
     
  37. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.

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    Can you do without your car for a couple of days?

    If so you can post me the ECU and i can sort it. Either that or drive to Manchester and can be sorted while you are here.

    Rick
     
  38. jezzy

    jezzy Member

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    or you could just pm mate and your problems could be solved and cheap.
     
  39. brasiliangringo

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    If it where me i would be putting a request in writing and if my subsequent requests to return the car to a similar prior state were not met, i would inform them of my intention to pursue the action through the small claims court but i am a principled sucker who cannot stand that sort of thing and being in business myself would (if it were me) be mapping it right free of charge after putting my hand up and admitting a mistake had been made. 20% discount, the cheek!
     
  40. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator
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    As long as in the small claims court you have proof that there has been a remap on the car at some point (either by receipt or by the validation of the dealer who did it), then you have grounds for a case.

    If you don't, I genuinely don't think you'll get anywhere because in their eyes your perception won't stand up in a court of law.

    I'm with Bill on this one, and hope that the dealer might at lease offer some goodwill if you can back up your situation.
     
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