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Release of Pan Am Bomber.

Discussion in 'Rants & Raves' started by unkle, Aug 24, 2009.

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Was it right to release Abdelbaset Al Megrahi early?

  1. Yes.

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  2. No.

    13 vote(s)
    86.7%
  1. unkle
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    unkle Beer God

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    [Aug 24, 2009]
    Been reading this story for the last few days, I doubt many of you have been able to miss it.

    What do you guys think?
    #1
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  3. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 24, 2009]
    I don't know the full story behind this and there are many who are adamant that he was innocent.

    He was found guilty and sent to prison and that's where he and anyone else should stay until either his release date or he dies.
    #2
  4. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 24, 2009]
    As Staz said.

    He didn't show any compassion to the innocent people on the plane, or the people on the ground who died. He should never have been released, but I feel there is more to it than meets the eye. The person who met him was Gaddaffi's son, the same son who met that toad Mandelson. Do you see a connection ?
    Things start to happen to benefit people who meet Mandelson, just my view on it.

    Oh, and there is this petition .....
    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/that-justice-secretary-kenny-macaskill-resign
    #3
  5. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 24, 2009]
    Like Staz I don't know the full story, but hopefully if there is any doubt over his conviction then he wouldn't be inside anyway.

    But he should have served his time out in prison without a doubt.
    #4
  6. Shink
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    Shink New Member

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    [Aug 24, 2009]
    Just maybe (though I don't think so) there were compassionate reasons for his release.

    But, and this is what the Scottish courts failed to realise, the consequences of this release are going to be plentiful and undesirable.

    First off will be the increase in applications for compassionate release from life sentences - putting strain and cost on the courts. All appeals are expensive for the taxpayer.

    As well, the relationship between the US, England, and the Middle East will be further polarised. This will not make relationships better, it will simply create something else to argue over.

    Finally, I think it sends a very clear message that the UK is soft on crime, soft on the Middle East, and generally just soft.

    But most of all, the moral failure to consider how wrong it is to make a positive and generous gesture to a mass murderer.
    #5
  7. Geordie Mike
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    Geordie Mike Yeee-haw

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    [Aug 25, 2009]
    While the mass taking of life can never be condoned, I think that the right decision has been taken.

    When you think of qualities people would aspire to have, I very much doubt vengeance would be one of them. But compassion? I think you would find that one scores highly. When you look back at the achievements of the human race, it will not be our acts done in anger that make you feel some kind of hope; it will be those where people have been able to rise above.

    I hope, now he has cancer, he dies today. He was tried in a court of law, appealed etc and found guilty. He committed an atrocious crime. He was sentenced to 27 years. Now this is a rhetorical question, but if he had served 28 years and was going to die in 3 months - same disease etc. - would this be a problem.

    I'm not going to get into a debate with people on this. I appreciate some people fundamentally disagree with a convicted mass murderer being shown compassion when he clearly failed to show that at any stage. That's find, and I can understand your view. Personally I would like to think if it was one of my family members who had died that I would be able to find some compassion for a dying man in my heart. I get judged by my actions, not by someone elses.

    Maybe I'm just a bit too optimistic/idealistic, but someone has to be.
    #6
  8. Steuart64
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    Steuart64 New Member

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    [Aug 25, 2009]
    Agree in General but why oh why do the English use "Engerland" to indicate the UK?

    Scottish business WILL be hammered by this - Whisky, tourism etc that in turn will affect UK revenue!

    1. He should have stayed in until he at least couldnt walk/clean himself etc then show compassion - I had to fight to get any compasion for my old man with cancer and he never comitted more than a speed crime!!!

    2.The appeals should have continued to allow the full evidence to come out and shame MI5/6/CIA/FBI/etc

    3. Mandy/BP have to answer to this as well - a contract signed days before release hmmmm fishy
    4. This thread is now being evaluated at GCHQ Cheltenham!:angrymod:
    #7
  9. Shink
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    Shink New Member

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    [Aug 25, 2009]
    You're right, I forgot the Oil Connection. There's always an oil connection.

    But, why England? I lived in the Middle East for a while and I think it's fair to say that's how they see us. Arabs tend to think in terms of nationality and family (tribe), race and religion.

    I said "England / US" because I was trying to express how Arabs will react and I believe they will see this issue now as Arab+Scotland vs US+England.

    So I suppose just as exports of Scottish products to some countries will drop, we can be fairly certain that Gaddafi is right now restocking is collection of Highland malts.
    #8
  10. Steuart64
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    Steuart64 New Member

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    [Aug 25, 2009]
    They may see us like that as "we" dont help the situation.

    I am proud to Scottish and a member of our Union but I have always detested this "Engerlish" trait of referring to the UK/GB as England.

    I sent 20 years on warships based in Scotland and was forever listening to English Shipmates telling expats the ship was going back to England - not Rosyth (Edinburgh-ish) or Scotland or even GB.

    Untill we address our Union correctly how can we expect others to?

    A rant and rave in the correct section!!
    #9
  11. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 25, 2009]
    I agree that one should always try and be the better man and we should strive to be the better country. How much compassion should we give though? Compassion to a man who was convicted of the bombings but shows no remorse? You cannot forgive a man who does not seek forgiveness.

    We need a zero tolerance policy on many things, this included. If you are sent to prison for life, you stay there FOR LIFE.

    With regards to the England/UK/Britain thing, while I was in Germany the Germans, my colleagues and myself all referred to it as UK or Britain. I think anyone who refers to a city in Scotland as being in England is an idiot.
    #10
  12. Shink
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    Shink New Member

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    [Aug 25, 2009]
    Agreed, there is a problem with us (read as the English) in the UK allowing old habits to perpetuate.

    However, I have to insist that the Arab mentality (and I am speaking of the average Arab in general terms) as found in the man on the street in many Arab countries is to see others as they understand themselves. Only 100 years ago the entire Gulf region was a collection of warring tribes. Nations were built along tribal lines, and tribal lines equal religious lines. This is why in the Middle East they don't really understand the concept of the 'United Kingdom.' Even the United Arab Emirates is only tolerated because of the massive amount of freedom given to the component tribal Emirati.

    The average Arab often does not travel, sometimes due to visa restrictions in their home country. As a result, it's impossible for them to understand other countries other than as similar to themselves.

    This is one big why this prisoner should not have been released to Libya. The average Arab will see this as a victory, they will see it as a triumph over what they (probably correctly) see as the Imperialistic actions of the US and England.
    #11
  13. MintyS3
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    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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    [Aug 25, 2009]
    Clearly more than meets the eye. Im sure Britain and Libya have many back room deals on the go now and the release was just one of the bargaining tools.
    #12
  14. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    [Aug 25, 2009]
    just an absolute smack in the face to the people who's relative's who were killed and absolutely descusting..

    but it dosent surprise me how low some country's go to get business and repair relation's all for the dollar of coarse nothing else ..

    just appalling he should of died in a stone cold cell alone the peice of s*&t....
    #13
  15. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Aug 25, 2009]
    Amen to that.
    Quicker the better so the money could be better spent on the needy.
    #14
  16. Steuart64
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    Steuart64 New Member

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    [Aug 26, 2009]
    Agree a person should serve a sentence. In the UK our system is to send a person to gaol as punishment wheras the US, and others, it is to send to prison for punishment. This person could have been shown compassion and allowed home once he was on a death bed - not when able to walk and dance!

    I see a great US terrorist has just died - Teddy Kennedy! I didnt see him or his NORAID buddies condemn the release of terrorists under the Good Friday Agreement!

    Maybe there are different grades of Terrorist in the US?

    Good Ones (IRA etc)
    Innocent (Guantanamo)
    Alleged (rendition flights)
    Guilty (UK Hackers)
    Maybe Guilty (Set up - more and more likely in this case)
    and Presidents - Capital Punishment for them!!
    #15

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