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Regal Rolling Road day - The Results!

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by jamiekip, Oct 4, 2008.

  1. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Oct 4, 2008]
    First of all a big thank you to everyone that came along and to Regal for hosting the day.

    I'd say the day was a success, well I enjoyed it, a few highs and a few lows and the usual conversations about rolling road lottery.
    But, what we did get were some good figures across standard, GIAC and Revo'd cars as well as a chance to have a closer look at some TT-S's (of which 4 turned up!) and the chance to hear a proper sounding engine courtesy of my mate Dan's R32 with custom exhaust including the manifolds!

    Chris and the guys at Regal made a point of explaining that they had set the road up as accurately as possible.
    All runs had each car configured and set at 60mph in 4th gear. Then all power runs were done in 4th gear.

    Anyway, I'm hoping Phil (AKA Highwayman) was given a copy of all the plots, but I have a horrible feeling it's still at Regal (that'll be my fault!) and will hopefully be able to get it emailed on Monday.

    So, how did everyone do?
    Well Magnus, highwayman & t&biscuits put there cars on to set a standard S3 benchmark.
    From memory these recorded:

    Magnus 911 - S3 - 270bhp
    Highwayman - S3 - 264bhp
    t&biscuits - S3 (Panelfilter) - 276.1BHP @ 6185 RPM & 263.2lbft @ 3564 RP

    Magnus & Highwayman then went and had the GIAC software installed, but I'd say the standard results seem pretty fair.

    Jimbo also put his TT-S on in standard trim:
    Jimbo - TT-S - 268bhp

    I'll start with my power runs, and if the others can add their results below and I'll keep editing this post with everyone's results.
    My power runs recorded:

    Jamiekip - S3 - Run 1 - GIAC - 304bhp @ 6733rpm & 290.4 lbft @ 3575rpm
    Jamiekip - S3 - Run 2 - GIAC - 314bhp @ 6537rpm & 305.2 lbft @ 3555rpm :yahoo:
    S3 Big Andy - S3 - Run 1 - Revo Stage 2 & Milltek - 329.6bhp & 321.3 lbft
    S3 Big Andy - S3 - Run 2 - 326.6bhp & 306.7 lbft
    Gareth B - A3 2.0 TFSI - Run 1: 224.7 bhp & 213.8 lbft
    Gareth B - A3 2.0 TFSI - Run 2: 223.7 bhp & 213.9 lbft
    Magnus911 - S3 - Run 1 - GIAC - 293bhp
    Highwayman - S3 - Run 1 - GIAC - 290bhp & 304 lbft
    Norm29 - A3 170TDi - Run 1 - 165.4bhp and 263 lbft
    S3 Saf - S3 - Run 1 - Revo Stage 1 - 307bhp

    Only difference between my two runs was that on the first run my car had sat idling for about 10 mins and could have hindered the run due to heat soak, on the second run the warm up consisted of a blast on a few roads.
    I'll admit I was dissapointed with the results from the first run, but far happier with the second - obviously.

    My rolling road plot (apologies - it's a piccie!)

    [​IMG]

    I think the important think to remember here is that with a Rolling Road there are so many variables... look at the difference between my two runs... done just 90 mins apart!!! But it does still give an idea of how things are performing!

    Anyway, apologies if people thought I'd dissapeared, I'd popped in to the workshop to fit my lamin-x, so sorry I didn't get a chance to say bye.

    Anyway, thanks again to everyone for coming along.

    A few pics from the day:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Remember to remove peoples plates on pic's!!!

    Thanks again guys. :thumbsup:

    J

    PS: Leon and Lee - hope you're both starting to feel more human again... you were missed!
    #1
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  3. GarethB
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    GarethB New Member

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    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Twas a good day, and great to put some faces to names.

    My results were:

    Run 1: 224.7 bhp & 213.8 lbft
    Run 2: 223.7 bhp & 213.9 lbft

    from a standard A3 2.0 TFSI that couldn't redline due to the S-tronic constantly changing up!

    Well chuffed, especially given the relatively low readings from other members cars.

    Cheers for Jamie for organising a great day and to Paul for adding some bits on my car via vagcom.
    #2
  4. Oli.
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    Oli. Member

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    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Looks like a great day, and some good results
    #3
  5. magnus911
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    magnus911 R8GGA

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    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Had a good day, thanks Jamie. The best I recorded was on the first run after having the GIAC software put on; the car made just 293bhp due to misfiring around 6500 RPM... That was disappointing after a good stock run but the car definitely felt faster!

    Chris was very helpful though and has invited me back for more tests and a dyno run...

    Cheers Jamie for organising everything and to Regal for their hard work and hospitality.

    Phil, let me know when you're going back as I may join you!
    #4
  6. GarethB
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    GarethB New Member

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    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Was a shame about the misfire. Hope it is sorted soon
    #5
  7. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Yeah I was gutted for you Magnus.
    Hopefully you'll get to the bottom of it.....
    #6
  8. GarethB
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    GarethB New Member

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    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Also after most of you had left, they put a Chrysler 300C diesel on the rollers and it made 260 bhp and 560lbft!!!!!
    #7
  9. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Feckin hell!!!
    560 lbft....... that's really impressive!
    #8
  10. Highwayman
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    Highwayman Member

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    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Firstly, a big thank you to Jamie for arranging the day, and for Chris/Paul at Regal for putting on such a well organised day for us :salute:. Jamie - I didnt get everyones results, as Chris said that he wanted to pull everything together on Monday, so suggest that you ask him to send them to you/me (they have my address now ;) ) and I'll sort out some comparison graphs, as promised.

    In the meantime, here are my results before and after the remap

    Power
    [​IMG]

    Torque
    [​IMG]

    Now whilst I'm very pleased with the results after a great drive home :superman:, I'm still a little confused about them :uhm:. In particular, I can't get my head around the differences between the at the wheel (ATW) figures and the calculated flywheel ones. Take a look at the graph below, which shows the differences from standard to Hammer map:
    [​IMG]

    How can the increases at the wheel (which is what the dyno actually measures) be more than the increases at the flywheel? That just doesn't make sense to me, and I'm afraid that I wasn't entirely convinced by Chris's explanation of how this could happen... Magnus - is yours the same? I've looked out some old RR plots from my Coupe and they have the same difference between ATW and flywheel figures for different boost pressures, which seems to back up my line of thinking. Anyone got any views?

    Anyway, enough moaning, as I'm actualy very pleased with my car now :yahoo:! Chris has offered another power run in a couple of weeks, when the ECU will have adapted properly, so hopefully I'll et some figures more in line with Jamie's, who has exactly the same set up as me now.

    Nice to meet lots of people today, and I'll see if I can make Audi International next weekend, as promised ;).

    Phil
    #9
  11. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Good to meet you Phil.

    The whole rolling road mathematics side of things confuses the beejeeesus out of me Phil!
    Interesting comparison on yours and I think the gains even before its adapted are cracking.
    I'm going to scan my graphs tomorrow and get them up.
    Hope to see you at Audi Driver mate.
    #10
  12. S3 Big Andy
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    S3 Big Andy Stealth Beast Baby Yay

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    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Phil, the answer is fish!

    but for a real answer is it not something to do with the heldex?
    #11
  13. block
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    block Member

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    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Is your car brand new magnus?

    This is exactly what mine was doing after my giac reamp, i put some stp injection cleaner through it first and that definately improved mine, infact to the point that the misfire could not be felt at all.
    #12
  14. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Oct 4, 2008]
    I have to say block we discussed this on the day that it sounded similar to your experiences. Though I think Andy was saying that the injectors are a known issue in the states...
    #13
  15. mitch78
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    mitch78 Active Member

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    [Oct 4, 2008]
    :thumbsup:
    #14
  16. magnus911
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    magnus911 R8GGA

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    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Yes my car is about 2 months old - and has 5000 on the clock.

    Chris did actually put some injector cleaner in the tank so i'll run that through and see if i get an improvement...

    Thanks for letting me know you had the same problem - I can't actually tell the misfire myself when I'm driving because try not to bounce off the red line but it definitely affected the RR results.

    i will try again in a week or so when the car's been driven properly!
    #15
  17. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Good to meet you guys, my stay was a little short lived as my lad was getting alittle bored and there's only so much invisible cake I can eat!

    and good to finally return the stereo keys back to Paul... I borrowed them 15 moths ago... Sorry matey, hopethe de chrome tape made up for it though!

    J.
    #16
  18. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Classic, lol
    #17
  19. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Oct 4, 2008]
    Good to meet you to MB.
    Hope the little one had a good day!
    #18
  20. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

  21. L60N
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    L60N Guest

    [Oct 5, 2008]
    Jamie,

    Sorry i didnt make it mate. Had the man flu since last week and it totally wiped me out. I had hoped to be better but felt like ****. Sorry again Lee, i feel bad you didnt get to go down :(

    The rest of you guys had a great day by the looks of it, I cant wait to see the full table of results.

    See ya'll at ADI next week :)

    P.S. Im not going on track, since im taking Ellie with me, im not sure she'd enjoy being sidelined for the morning! :sob:
    #20
  22. norm29
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    norm29 Member

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    [Oct 5, 2008]
    My 170 ran 165.4 and 263 lbft as standard :)
    #21
  23. Kontraband
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    Kontraband Active Member

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    [Oct 5, 2008]
    Looks like its another RR thread throwing out some more questions! ;)

    The 2 standards seem a chunck lower from the RR day we had a prosport..
    [​IMG]

    Whats fuel was everyone running, how was the weather? Did you wear your name tags, and wheres the BBQ pic?? ;)
    #22
  24. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Oct 5, 2008]
    No worries mate - you'd gone completely underground was worried you'd been abducted by Audi for damaging the brand :haha:
    Hope both you and Lee are right as rain for next week :thumbsup:.

    Regal should be providing some over laid comparisons of everyone's results tomorrow.... should be interesting.

    It's a real shame we didn't have a GIAC'd car with an exhaust on for comparison with Big Andys's car, though my best run got within 15bhp & 15 lbft which wasn't half bad!

    What the day did prove (again) to me is the huge variances involved in Rolling Roads..... the fact my car found 10bhp and 15 lbft between runs with no other difference than the way I warmed the car up speaks volumes!!!

    Roll on Audi Driver...
    #23
  25. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Oct 5, 2008]
    I was thinking about this last night and was wondering if another event needs to be organised and approached a little more scientifically to get some solid benchmark figures.
    We'd need:
    Standard car
    Standard car with Panel filter
    Standard car with Carbonio & Panel filter
    GIAC only
    GIAC with Panel filter
    GIAC with Carbonio and Panel filter
    GIAC with CAI
    GIAC with CAI and Exhaust
    Then the same on Revo, Superchips, AMD....

    I know we'd struggle to get all the variations.... but If we could get as many as possible and then approach each run as scientifcally as possible.

    All cars given the cahnce to cool.
    All cars warmed up in the same manner
    All cars have the same tyre pressures
    etc
    etc

    A bit more of a controlled experiment.......... though I think hand on my heart, it would still be a lottery!!!! :blush:
    #24
  26. S3 Big Andy
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    S3 Big Andy Stealth Beast Baby Yay

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    [Oct 5, 2008]
    You might have made 325 bhp then Jamie, still behind but seconds not last!!:whistle2::p
    #25
  27. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Oct 5, 2008]
    Are you geting paid by Revo..... You had the t-shirt, the sticker... aare you drinking from the mug too :haha:
    In all fairness, it'll be swings and roundabouts I reckon with the same hardware... differences will be in the delivery of power rather than the headline figures IMO
    #26
  28. S3 Big Andy
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    S3 Big Andy Stealth Beast Baby Yay

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    [Oct 5, 2008]
    Not regal, revo!!!!! lmao just teasing you boys!

    I think once yours has had some good runs and you go full milltek, you'll be pushing me on the next RR day!
    #27
  29. S3 SAF
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    S3 SAF Member

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    [Oct 5, 2008]
    Hi guys it was great meeting all you you guys, had a really good time and quite pleased with the results..... 307.2 bhp
    #28
  30. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Oct 5, 2008]
    My rolling road plot now added in the original post
    #29
  31. t&biskits
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    t&biskits it`s all black

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    [Oct 5, 2008]
    BIG THANKS TO JAMIE FOR SORTING OUT THE RR DAY, & REGAL FOR THE HOSPITALITY . Nice to meet a few people off of here, only really intended to come down & spectate, but it didn`t take long for the other half to force me to get the car on the rolling road!!

    STD S3 8P=276.1BHP@6185 RPM
    263.2lbft@3564 RPM

    The only thing the car has is a panel filter,make what you want of the results, as i struggled to get my head round how the Tassimo coffee machine worked down there, i presume these figures are o.k.
    Once again cheers for a good day. :o.k:

    P.S. S3 BIG ANDY, keep up the good work ridiculing the TTS boy`s.
    #30
  32. boggym
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    boggym Member

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    [Oct 5, 2008]
    Looks like a good day was had by all, still gutted I couldn't tag along but other commitments got in the way.

    Interesting results all the same, there doesn't seem to be a definite one to go for in the sense of remaps. Looks as though Revo and GIAC are both proving their worth though. It would have been great to stick mine on the rollers as I'm standard apart from a Stage 1 Revo at the moment but come wednesday, there'll be a full Milltek and Forge CAI along with stage 2 Revo. I'd have popped back up to Regal for an after plot to see whether an exhaust is money well spent. Something tells me it might be a lot of money for a comparatively little gain though!!! Anyway, should be good for Castle Combe next Saturday.
    #31
  33. powerplay
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    powerplay Grrrr

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    [Oct 5, 2008]
    Great day yesterday at Regal, thanks to them and Jamie for putting it together. Here's the results of my TTS on the dyno - if you are interested I have commented a bit on the remap over here

    [​IMG]
    #32
  34. Highwayman
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    Highwayman Member

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    [Oct 5, 2008]
    OK, as Jamie has posted his RR graph now, I can produce the first comparison between his car and mine. They are pretty much identical set ups, but mine had only had the GIAC fitted just before going on the dyno, so in theory I have some further improvements to look forward to (actually, I can already feel them, as the car is certainly quicker again today :o.k:).

    Power
    [​IMG]

    Torque
    [​IMG]

    Hmm, might have to add the TTS figures in as well now, as that was probably the most successful remap of the day.

    Phil
    #33
  35. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Oct 5, 2008]
    Really, REALLY useful Phil - thanks for doing that.
    Any chance of keeping your standard S3 plot in there too....?
    Thanks Phil.
    #34
  36. Highwayman
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    Highwayman Member

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    [Oct 5, 2008]
    Your wish is my command, graphs updated to include my standard plots ;). Now for the TTS ones...

    Phil
    #35
  37. Highwayman
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    Highwayman Member

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    [Oct 5, 2008]
    OK, here are the TTS figures plotted against Jamie's and my GIAC ones. I'm a little surprised at the differences considering that they are very similar engines :uhm:.

    Power
    [​IMG]

    Torque
    [​IMG]

    I believe that powerplay has a DSG 'box, so whether that explains some of the variation...

    Phil
    #36
  38. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Oct 5, 2008]
    DSG would explain some of it.... different ratios maybe???
    I know the rolling road doesn't like DSG, especially there desire to kick down.
    Interestingly Stuey AKA powerplay has said it feels pretty rapid today when he's driven it...
    #37
  39. magnus911
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    magnus911 R8GGA

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    [Oct 5, 2008]
    Gareth, your results were the best. 10% increase in power over stock and you hadn't modded anything!
    #38
  40. GarethB
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    GarethB New Member

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    [Oct 5, 2008]
    Why thank you Magnus :whistle2:

    Chris at Regal commented that it must have been properly run in.

    I was happy to get any figures after the mechanic's initial confusion of whether it could be run on a rolling road and the changing up issues with the 'manual mode' of the DSG.
    #39
  41. GarethB
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    GarethB New Member

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    [Oct 5, 2008]
    Some excellent comparison graphs Phil.

    The torque seems rather low on the TTS - very odd
    #40

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