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Rear Suspension rebuild thread

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by jcb, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 8, 2010]
    As you may have seen I have been a tad unlucky recently and have had my hand forced on the rear end rebuild of my car.
    If I want it back on the road anytime soon I have to replace whatever is bent, so there may actually be some progress to this thread.

    Docurley kindly sold me an entire rear subframe and suspension components which were palleted up North at record speed. (South East London to Edinburgh in less than 24 hours for £90!)

    Stage one complete - remove stock subframe bushes.
    took an angle grinder to the tops and cut some slits in the overlapping rubber edge, one smack with a hammer and they just popped out. too easy.

    [​IMG]

    old softies
    [​IMG]

    80 shure 034 units to go in.
    [​IMG]

    more to come if I want tio drive in a straight line anytime soon
    #1
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  3. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    and the hits just keep on coming!!
    I knocked up an ingenious device for compressing the bushes in ...

    [​IMG]
    and guess what
    Fuckin$ bushes are the wrong ones!!
    [​IMG]

    anyone have any or know of any uprated rear subframe bushes for a B5 99 quattro?
    #2
  4. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    Are they the same as rs4 or s4?
    #3
  5. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2010]
    yep, all the same, I have been sent front subframe one instead of rears.
    Looks like my quickest option is a set of solid ones from Doug at MRC.
    Can't wait lthe long tim ethat it would take 034 to return the correct ones so I am keeping them for when I drop the engine.

    more ball ache
    #4
  6. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 13, 2010]
    some bling to replace the ill fitting rubber!
    [​IMG]
    #5
  7. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 13, 2010]
    That'll be the NVH ratings out the window then!
    #6
  8. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 13, 2010]
    yes, a little stiffer than rubber!
    they go in tomorrow with some bonding agent to stop em squeaking (MRC advice) and then I can hopefully get on with fitting the subframe and everything else a the weekend.

    Thats a Bosch Rally spec pump underneath that just arrived also, different thread material but may fit that as well if I get the time.
    #7
  9. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 13, 2010]
    isnt the bosch 044 an external pump?
    #8
  10. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 13, 2010]
    can be. this one is going to have an adapted cage and run internally as I don;t want either the noise or the hassle
    #9
  11. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 13, 2010]
    Have you worked out what is bent?

    That engine finished yet? lol
    #10
  12. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 13, 2010]
    I am not sure what is bent but I suspect more than just the lower wishbone. not prepared to go througgh a tiral and error to find the bent bit bfore fitting a new engine and turbo so swappping it all out makes sense

    engine is done, balanced, clutch fitted waiting to be picked up.
    I am waiting for a cheque to clear so I can go and pay the guy, then figure out where I am going to fit it. need space!
    #11
  13. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 14, 2010]
    fitted the bling, well made and very solid they press into the frame, I was advised to bond them in to stop any future creaking that can occur.
    Good old Tiger seal at the ready:
    [​IMG]

    took the opportunity to pull the diff carrier off and clean it up. it is the only aspect of the rear subframe that is not poly/solid bushed.
    the plate moves around very easily on the old soft bushes. can't imagine what that transfers under load.
    before:
    [​IMG]

    after a liberal injection of Tigerseal:
    [​IMG]

    made sure the tiger seal lump is high enough to sit flush with the top of the metal liner and will be wdged between the subframe mount points.
    should stiffen up nicely.

    wishbones next.
    #12
  14. ian52
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    ian52 2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    [Jan 14, 2010]
    Where did you get the tiger seal from? I could do with doing my engine mounts.
    #13
  15. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 19, 2010]
    well finally managed to strip this and there is a lot more bent than I had imagined.
    I was completely unable to remove the upright the upper wishbone bolt as the whole assembly had twisted enough to trap the bolt,
    upper wishbone has a slight twist in it if my xray eyes are correct.
    Lower tie rod is new but the ball joint sits at a funny angle despite concentric bolt adjustment.

    all in all a mess.
    So glad I decided to swap the subframe and not do piece by piece replacement!
    spent the day stripping it of poly bushes and braided lines and attempted to fit a Quaife ATb to it (wrong one!).
    why do they make brake line couplings from chocolate!!

    will post some pics when I get them off the phone.
    #14
  16. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 20, 2010]
    for anyone intending to drop the subframe it is not a s bad as you might think.
    I did this with only a couple of axle stands and trolley jack.
    [​IMG]

    I wanted to leave the suspension in place so planned to disconnect the uprights from the upper wishbone, on the damaged side that turned out to be impossible as the wishbone had been twisted slighlty by the impact and the bolt was stuck fast. This meant I had to pull the shock casing as well.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    difficult to see but both bolt and wishbone have a slight bend

    in dropping the subframe it is possible to diconnect the brake hardline from the centre rear of the subframe and carefull unclip them from the frame. they are hanging down with some tape over the ends above.
    you could leave the brakes on if you are only replaceing bushes but mine are being swapped over so they came off. Plan on replacing hardlines or softlines even if you don't want to. 10 year old brake components are soft and crumble easily when removing even with a brake spanner!

    disconnect the back prop shaft from the rear diff, drop the centre diff bush housing as you need it out the way to access the handbrake if you are planning on pulling the whole thing.
    Remember to disconnect the ABS sensors by lifting the back seat and pulling the plug, then pulling it through the body just in front of the subframe.
    If removing the frame completely you can disconnect the handbrakes at the lever end from outside without having to remove inner trim.
    three 13mm bolts drop the housing plate on the underside of the car, then two 13mm bolts inside can be undone with a ratchet ring spanner. then just unclip the cables.

    the frame itself is held on with four 19mm bolts which are easily accessed, jsut make sure you are supporting the diff (as you should have done when you disconnected the prop ) and the frame.
    A trolley jack under the main diff housing is sufficient.
    [​IMG]

    pull the bolts and bob's your auntie..one two wheel A4!
    [​IMG]


    I then went about stripping the Diff to fit the Quaife and replace the seals.

    Seals first.
    two hex bolts in the centre of the output flange release the flange completely.
    seals can be prised out easy enough just don't scratch the surface.
    use the old seals as a perfect drift to tap the new ones in. I always put some oil on the outside of the seal to stop the rubber turning on the cleaned surface it is going onto.
    there is a fancy audi tool to refit but a flat plate, the old seal upside down and the new seal tap back into the correctgroove very easily. I don't think it is conincidence that the distance the seal sits in the bore is the exact same width of the seal itself. so if you tap the plate fluch with the old seal between the two it is exactly where it should be.
    haven't refitted the flanges yet but a good clean and oil before refit is pretty self explainatory.

    Diff.
    Flanges off there are 15 or so 6 point hex studs holding the main case cover on.
    whip them off and the only thing holding it in is a snug fit and an o ring. tap it off all the way round so it doesnt crush the o ring.
    The diff now lifts out with surprising ease
    [​IMG]

    anyone spot the deliberate mistake here?

    (clue: output shafts are different size on the Quaife and the OEM!)
    also don't attempt to use bearing pullers to remove the tapered roller bearings! they bend!

    fitting the Quaife is fairly straigh forward, you need to remove the OEM crown gear and fit it to the ATB, you would be advised to get two new tapered roller bearings that hold the Diff in the case. you will need the exact diff code to match the bearings as there are two different RHS bearings and about 15 combinations of fitted washers! the wrong ones will see the diff too loose or too tight in the case when you refit it.

    A good sluice out and refill with new diff oil is required after 100k miles as you can see by the treacle in mine.

    have refitted all the polybushes to the new subframe and replaced the crappy little hardline and soft fitting with some short stainless braided hoses I have from a Mk2 Golf project (mainly as I can't find my brake pipe flaring tool!)

    more to follow when I work out what I am doing with this Quaife that doesn't fit and the OEM one that now doesn't work!!
    #15
  17. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 20, 2010]
    Is the Quaife maybe for an S4?

    The S4 diff has different drive flanges and inner CV's, but it should just be a case of getting the appropriate parts and fitting them.
    #16
  18. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 20, 2010]
    possible, I am dealing with Quaife now.
    spline issue is one thing but the crown gear pcd is a bigger issue, mine has 12 holes and according to Quaife the ATB Diff for the A4 has 10!
    #17
  19. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 20, 2010]
    ah :(
    #18
  20. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 21, 2010]
    its for a 911!!
    hopefully make some $ when I slap it on eBay as those boys should have some cash!!
    #19
  21. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [May 21, 2010]
    ffs, no difference there then eh!
    #20
  22. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 21, 2010]
    not as different as you wouldthink but just my luck it turns out it is for the 915 box on the older cars instead of the G50 box installed from the late 80's onwards!! still should go for £500!
    #21
  23. phoenixv6quattro
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    phoenixv6quattro staylowmovefast

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    [May 22, 2010]
    That dude that sold it to you and lied is a C**T!!!!!!!
    #22
  24. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 22, 2010]
    bit harsh but I suspect he bought it in good faith. it went to MRC and they realised it was not the same as the Stasis ones they fit.
    Either way it is going on eBay!!

    going to pull the engine while I decide what to do with the diff. would like the ATB but I may be looking at an S4 box and diff for some longer legs.
    #23
  25. josmo
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    josmo New Member

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    [Mar 13, 2011]
    just curious any updates??
    #24
  26. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 15, 2011]
    ha.....ongoing project.

    rear end was all put back together with OEM diff stripped and cleaned. solved my crabbing issue.
    now developed a rear bearing drone!
    flogged the quaife to a porsche 911 owner for what I paid for it

    still waiting to do the engine as I am overworked, underpaid, have no spare time and refuse to pay anyone to do it for me!

    skint at the moment so need to get some cash in before I start destroying my daily driver.

    engine is hanging in my garage waiting for its calling....
    #25
  27. crazy88
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    crazy88 Loving the anonymity

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    [Feb 5, 2014]
    Just found this thread. Sorry for the thread revival :)

    I've been searching on and off over the last week or two after the mot came back with an advisory on a slightly rusty rear subframe. He suggested a wire brush and seal might work, but I've been considering getting another subframe, fitting all new bushes etc and then fitting that one.

    Thanks for the info in this thread though, it's helped a lot.

    I guess the question is; where do I stop with bush replacements etc. It's on 118k miles and I'm pretty sure most if not all of the rear are original.
    #26
  28. Sulli79
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    Sulli79 Active Member

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    [Feb 5, 2014]
    I think the rear end refresh kit from allgermanparts has all the bushes including subframe, it's about 350 notes
    #27
  29. crazy88
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    crazy88 Loving the anonymity

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    [Feb 5, 2014]
    Ah nice! I'll take a look. My old friend who I worked with used to do subframes but he's gone to steering racks now so not sure he can get them anymore. I dare not ring allgermanparts, I'll spend all my money there refreshing both my b5 and b6.
    #28
  30. Sulli79
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    Sulli79 Active Member

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    [Feb 5, 2014]
    Just had a look, I am a liar, it doesn't include subframe bushes! I hate to think how much I'd spend with a limitless budget!
    #29

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