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Question regarding my S3

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by bigyin, Aug 19, 2011.

  1. bigyin
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    bigyin Member

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    Hey all

    I recently bought myself an 08 S3 from audi, its everything I hoped it would be other than one niggling issue. I previously came from a stage 2 Leon Cupra R and prior to that a heavily modified Evo IV. Both cars, at 3000rpm would pin me to my seat and throw me down the road, the kick from the turbo was immense. The S3 doesnt have that same feeling or drama.

    Now I know that comparing modified against standard is hardly a fair comparison, so please no flames. The way the car accelerates appears to be very linear and smooth with only a slight 'kick' at 2500rpm then it just steadily revs as the speed builds, is this how other S3's behave?

    I've read a few threads that document issues with the DV which can affect power output, and also there should be a 'Chatter' noise when coming off full throttle, I dont have any such noise. Have I just been spoiled aggresive nature by my previous cars or is there a potential issue?

    My car will be remapped, but not during the first year of ownership as I've no desire to invalidate my 1 year warranty.

    Regards
    #1
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  3. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    Funnily enough, I came from a stage 2 Leon Cupra R too, and when I picked up my brand spanking new S3 all those years ago I thought it was rubbish. Dull, slow, tedious, to be honest as I'd bought blind (no test cars in UK when I signed the order form) I spent months thinking I'd been an utter **** for buying a car I couldn't test or see!

    However in time Stage 2+ appeared, and the S3 is now all the car the LCR Stg 2 ever was, and plus you have the benefit or predictable handling in anything other than the dry.

    Appreciate that doesn't help your immediate issue, but I had no chatter from the wastegate until S2+, and very little DV noise etc. until at least CAI was fitted.

    As an S3 owner, with another one on the way, I know these are ruthless comments, but from factory it's just not a good enough car. Fortunately there is lots of untapped potential.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
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  4. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    I am afraid i found the same with a brand new one. The S3 is very hyped up but to be honest it needs a stg 1 map and its fine. I bought new because i wanted the warranty but after just a week it was a choice of sell or remap. I figure the remap stg 1 exerts quite a small extra load on everything and only then if you actually use it to the full so it was a worth the risk. It works fine with a std airbox etc so the car looks completely standard and i bought a SPS switch so i can switch it back to std should i have problems or maybe even through the winter months.
    The transformation with the revo map is extraordinary not just in the extra power ( which is only about 12%) but in the smoothness, throttle response and kick in the back. All you are really doing with stg 1 is tuning the engine to run on 99 octane to the full. but it makes a world of difference.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
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  5. Boydie
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    Boydie Boycie VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    I agree, the S3 is way behind the likes of Ford, VW, Seat I think.

    265bhp standard sounds impressive but IMO the S3 should have at least 300bhp from the word go to make it interesting and compete with the likes of the Focus RS.

    Especially now since I have heard rumour about the mk3 RS being 4WD and 380bhp!

    Get the S3 tuned. Remap is like night and day. I am on stage 2 at the minute with 2+ around the corner. Cannot wait!
    #4
  6. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    I agree stage 2 or more is brilliant but i think stg 1 is a great compromise to see you through your warranty :)
    #5
  7. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    Stage 1 takes it to the point I was hoping it would feel from factory (e.g. quick). It is a great starting point, and removed all of the EU restrictions that get it into the lower CO2 brackets.

    Giving the car a decent Stg 1 map is like curing the car of asthma!
    #6
  8. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    I know I don't have the s3.. And I have come from a stage 3 TT, but I can't wait for my revo map...!! I guess they don't have any of these cars setup like this as standard so that we don't end up moaning that everything is worn out by 10k
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  9. bigyin
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    bigyin Member

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    Well that kinda put my mind at rest as what you guys have just said is exactly what I'm thinking. Im in no way slating the car, as i happen to really like it, but the perfomance side of things is not on par with what I'm a) used to b) lives up to the hype generated by all the reviews I read. It just doesnt 'feel' like I have 260bhp, that being said its certainly not slow. Stage 1 Remap will no doubt turn the car into something more akin to what I'm used to, and thats likely to come in the future.
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  10. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    Remember the Audi is more refined, better built, will suffer less lift and pitch due to Haldex (less sense of being tipped back and forth), and then you have to factor in drivetrain losses. More power does get down on the road so its not all doom and gloom.
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  11. bigyin
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    bigyin Member

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    Completely agree, its the main reason i bought the S3 rather than the New cupra etc. I wanted the build quality and refinement and the anomynity. As I said its by no means slow, and it does put the power down substantially better than the cupra did. I suspect my earlier statement of 'being spoiled' by my previous cars may be my exact problem. However the S3 is a very easy car to tune to about 300bhp, which I've no doubt I'd be more than happy with. Only downside is having to wait for a year before doing it lol
    #10
  12. akash_sky1
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    akash_sky1 Active Member

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    Was your Leon Cupra R the older model? If so both cars you describe both have more laggy engines then the s3, and are lighter in case of the Leon, which is probably one reason why you feel a slight lack of drama in the S3.
    Also remember its an Audi so when it comes to soundproofing etc is much more refined, again dulling the sense of speed somewhat.
    Also in standard form, the 2wd Cupra R isn't much slower once rolling or fasten even if it was tuned or the newer model
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  13. audicruiser
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    audicruiser Audi Heaven

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    Don't forget though that the S3 was released in late 2006 and the Focus RS was released in 2009 so the game has moved on I guess in the time it's been out. That said, VAG launched the Golf R with "only" 270 bhp so they obviously think that's enough. Maybe the next Generation S3 will be 300bhp standard but then everything else will be 350bhp plus the RS3 has 340bhp so I suppose Audi wanted a gap for that otherwise it wouldn't be so appealing....

    Agree on the mapping though. Had mine done last month and though it's not an S3 it has transformed it from a flat dull quick car to more responsive and torquey enjoyable drive.
    #12
  14. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    As you say,you've come from a heavily modified Evo,to the S3,and from stock,the S3 is brisk,but not fast,and it's power/weight ratio reflects that.Once you've remapped it,and particularly if you go beyond just a remap to possibly a bigger turbo,then you get a completely different animal,and it's the extra power that the car really needs.
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  15. slepy
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    slepy Extremely smart and handsome person. VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    Shouldn't you guys compare S3 to focus St and RS3 to Focus RS?
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  16. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    I sort of see what you're saying,but a stock S3 is a bit faster than an ST,and arguably a RS3 is faster than the Focus RS....all of those are stock comparisons,and are rendered pointless when any of the cars are mapped,and then you can only really compare similar power/weight ratios if you want a real comparison.
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  17. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    From stock,the S3 has a pretty linear delivery,and won't really impress by comparison with your previous modified cars,but remapping it will change that,and as you do so,you will notice a lot more noise from an aftermarket induction system(which you will need at Stg2 and above)especially when the turbo is running at the limits of it's map.The K04 is good for about 360-380bhp at most,and after that,you would need a bigger turbo and a LOT of other parts.
    #16
  18. oldlaw
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    oldlaw Member

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    [Aug 19, 2011]
    U got photos of it? Fellow Fifer
    #17
  19. bigyin
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    bigyin Member

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    Yeah mate it was the older Cupra R. Although both engines were slightly more 'laggy', I wouldnt say that the S3 is lacking in the turbo lag department either. Both the cupra and the Evo came on song strongly at 3000rpm (the mr2 turbo I had before the evo was the same), but you could feel it build from about 2500rpm. The S3 feels like it has its punch from about 2500rpm onwards, so the difference isnt huge. I agree entirely regarding the weight though, all the cars previously were significantly lighter than the S3, which wont help with the whole performance thing. That being said, its the increase in soundproofing etc that made me choose the S3 as I wanted the refinement and to move away from the whole boy racer image (at 32 I'm getting on a bit now lol). Dont get me wrong, I really really like the car, its everything I wanted, but just lacks that little bit on the perfmance side. Stage 1 would no doubt cure that, but as I say I dont want to invalidate my warranty so thats year down the line.

    Stage 1 is probably as far as I would go with the car, I'm trying to get away from modifying cars. Everytime I buy a car, I say that I'll keep it standard, then end up spending an absolute fortune on mods, not to mention the increase in running costs, insurance etc etc. This time (famous last words) I intend nothing more than Stage 1 map to release some of the untapped potental, but only once the warranty is expired.

    Ah a fellow fifer!! Not got any pics yet. Was planning on giving it a full detail first then getting some pics up, she's gotta look her best lol.
    #18
  20. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    It will make a noticeable difference,and you'll vertainly notice the far more useful torque that comes with it.

    I said when I bought mine that I wouldn't do much to it,and look where that ended up!

    Hope you enjoy it...
    #19
  21. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    They're not that much lighter... Less than 50kg in the case of the evo in particular... Even though both cars have compromised lots in terms of soundproofing and quality of materials compared to the Audi... It equals less than an average passenger or tank of fuel...! I had an fq360.. And there aren't many things I miss about it that aren't outweighed massively by the feel and build quality of the Audi.. And don't even get me started on FWD cars lol.. (plus seat is just another word for chair!:lmfao:) Audi FTW!!! You've made a wise, and classy, choice mate..!
    #20
  22. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    Someone at Revo (think it was Chris) said the 2.0T EA888 and S2+ is one of the best matches of engine & software potential and I have to say he was absolutely right. Whilst I always want more power S2+ is just immense. I love it, and passengers who are used to V engines and fast diesels are usually left speechless. Match made in heaven. Now get saving :)
    #21
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  23. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    I keep regretting not getting the s3 this time, but what I'm really waiting for is the 2.5 engine with a remap... Still waiting tho:(
    #22
  24. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    Mate, I'm with you on that. I could afford the 2.5T, but I love tech (hifi / Apple kit / watches / games consoles), I like having a nice house (and I pay my own mortgage so I need some slack), and I have a wife who likes a couple of holidays a year and treating once in a while. I can't sacrifice luxuries in life for an extra cylinder and an R badge at present whilst prices are mid to high 40's. S2+ perfectly bridges the gap for now.

    If I can get a low mileage second hand one in the future then fairy nuff. I'll buy an RS once they're in the low 30's and enjoy the other things that make life rounded and enjoyable!
    #23
  25. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    I couldn't agree more with everything you've said here Warren.. It is tempting, but not enough to sacrifice certain other luxuries in life!
    #24
  26. BigBird
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    BigBird Lost in music...

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    It's your call Bigyin, but I'd at least get a stage 1 map to set the car free.

    I dithered for ages before mapping & looking back it was simply wasted time.

    As myself, Paddy & others have done, get a switchable map & switch it off if you need to go back to the stealers for an issue.

    I had a trackday at Cadwell recently in my mates 500 Hp Evo 8. Afterwards we had a little drive around the lovely local roads & he drove my stage 2 car. His thoughts were that he should just sack his car off & get an S3 for it's blend of useability & decent power when modified...

    P.S. Paddy - have you got rid of all your "I hate S3s" T-shirts now?:moa:
    #25
  27. bigyin
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    bigyin Member

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    I've been reading about switchable maps, certainly liking the idea of being able to switch the map on and off for dealer visits etc etc. However when switching the map 'off', does it make the map untraceable by the dealership or can they still determine that it has had a map and its simply been turned off? If I have a warranty claim, which I accept is highly unlikely, but if i did, they could invalidate the warranty simple due the fact i've mapped the car.
    #26
  28. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    Most maps will trigger counters, but if you visit the centres they can reset your count.
    #27
  29. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    And me....I also could afford the RS3 but it would take so much to get it to the level of my own S3 that I don't see the point,plus it's a 5 door,and there seem to be a number of outstanding issues in getting the RS3 to 500bhp or more,so I'm very happy with my car,which is still going strong.
    #28
  30. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    [​IMG]

    do you want one :whistle2:
    #29
  31. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    I too could have bought a RS but i just hate being ripped off. :yes: :lmfao:
    #30
  32. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    Paddy ftw! :lmfao:
    #31
  33. Ben H
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    Ben H On a journey...

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    I think it's fair to say that the "S" sub-brand is about subltety, all-round usability and a reasonable degree of comfort. It also means conservative styling and state of engine tune. (Although the S3 is still more powerful than almost all other hot hatches).

    "RS" is the more fizzy, balls-out stuff.

    But you can always make your "S" more like an "RS". :)
    #32
  34. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    Well,there is always that side of it too,but my point was that tuning the RS3 and TT-RS is still in it's infancy if you like,whereas the parts,expertise and software for the S3 are readily available,and not in the trials stages.
    #33
  35. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    The thing is, the tuning is more than half the fun. Anyone can go and buy the ready done version and anything you buy, some one else will buy something faster or more trick . It would be a bit like buying a ready made Airfix kit...The whole point is to build it yourself. also i would say building a car to your spec allows you to become one with it and understand its idiosyncrasies and quirks and to get a sense of achievement from your work. I dont think whether it puts out 350 or 450 bhp is that important. Once its quick its quick, the rest is fractions of a second and not that realistic on a day to day ride. All just a personal opinion :)
    #34
  36. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    Once you've ridden a fast bike flat out.. You need over £100k to go as fast... Speed isn't everything as you say, but personalising your experience relieves the sameness I think most of us are trying to avoid?!
    #35
  37. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Aug 23, 2011]
    Thats it mate.........you can spend a fortune on your car and get left for dead by a 10 year old £2.5k R1.........You have to forget trying to be quicker than the rest and make what you have ... what you want and fun.
    #36
  38. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Aug 24, 2011]
    Exactly right....buying something already made isn't half the fun,and adapting something you like to be more like your own is where the enjoyment is.
    #37
  39. BigBird
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    BigBird Lost in music...

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    [Aug 24, 2011]
    Man I'd forgotten how scary that picture was...

    Haunted... :scared2:
    #38
  40. oldlaw
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    oldlaw Member

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    [Aug 24, 2011]
    Bigyin. You have a pm
    #39
  41. taylorc
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    taylorc S3 Owner

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    [Aug 24, 2011]
    The S3 is a lot faster than a standard ST (my previous car was a stage 1 ST3 (270bhp) and I would still go with the S3) and I would also say slightly faster than the Focus RS, even more so if the S3 is DSG.
    #40

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