Hi guys pick my car up on Tuesday and just wondered what you guys are filling up with. Also does it affect your performance?
Question for TDI drivers: what diesel are you using?
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I always stick with shell diesel extra or whatever it's called. Have tried the BP ultimate and that's just overpriced c*ap. Shell is about the cheapest anyway. Never would use supermarket fuel either.
DaveS3Turbo
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Diesel Ultimate & Mobil 1 0W-40 Fully Sythetic Oil from New.
Costs me 95.9 pennies a litre = JOKE heheheh
Dave
Costs me 95.9 pennies a litre = JOKE heheheh
Dave
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Japper, is there something wrong or different with super market fuels.
I thought they all came from the same local fueling depot. But maybe wrong about that.
Thanks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
I thought they all came from the same local fueling depot. But maybe wrong about that.
Thanks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
Well a lot of people claim they come from the same depot at the port. But each Company has their own tank. Either way it seems that supermarket fuels do not have as much, if any additives at all.
Don't know for sure, but don't intend taking that risk for a few pennies a litre.
Don't know for sure, but don't intend taking that risk for a few pennies a litre.
I just use whatever's cheapest, supermarket or otherwise!
I've never noticed a difference between any supplier to be honest....
I've never noticed a difference between any supplier to be honest....
rickquattro
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[ QUOTE ]
I just use whatever's cheapest, supermarket or otherwise!
I've never noticed a difference between any supplier to be honest....
[/ QUOTE ]
From working with Safeway/Sainsbury folk I am under the impression that they buy daily on the open market. The price is set and they are purchasing from a wholesaler. Remember how long it took to cripple the country during the petrol dispute? Fuel supply is a fast moving business. The supermarket fuel may come from BP/Shell etc. All fuel producers have to conform to the same basic British Standard number though there will be small differences.
So its Tesco smelly slimy minging stuff for me..with the vouchers/points.
Top Gear once did a bit where they produced 60 gallons of fuel from old filtered chip fat and a bit of paraffin. The AA scruntinised the whole thing and the diesel V*lv* ran fine.....cheap as chips as David Dickinson would say.
I keep the Optimax for the Supermoto and ZZR11 only. There is 100 Octane petrol in Germany, that's really worth a go on the Autobahn if your over there.
If anyone is a buyer from a Supermarket, chip in here please....
Rick
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
I just use whatever's cheapest, supermarket or otherwise!
I've never noticed a difference between any supplier to be honest....
[/ QUOTE ]
From working with Safeway/Sainsbury folk I am under the impression that they buy daily on the open market. The price is set and they are purchasing from a wholesaler. Remember how long it took to cripple the country during the petrol dispute? Fuel supply is a fast moving business. The supermarket fuel may come from BP/Shell etc. All fuel producers have to conform to the same basic British Standard number though there will be small differences.
So its Tesco smelly slimy minging stuff for me..with the vouchers/points.
Top Gear once did a bit where they produced 60 gallons of fuel from old filtered chip fat and a bit of paraffin. The AA scruntinised the whole thing and the diesel V*lv* ran fine.....cheap as chips as David Dickinson would say.
I keep the Optimax for the Supermoto and ZZR11 only. There is 100 Octane petrol in Germany, that's really worth a go on the Autobahn if your over there.
If anyone is a buyer from a Supermarket, chip in here please....
Rick
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
I was buying only from BP for the first 3 or four months after getting my A3.I then tried shell and Esso and found I got better milage from BP.I then went to sainsburys as I was running on vapour one day and got over 40 miles more out of the tank.I tend to only use the supermarkerts in emergencys after hearing a few tales on the diesel forum regarding sand in the tanks etc.I would give the chip fat a go to see what it went like (maybe the week before I trade it in 
)
there is loads of info on biodiesel on the web
http://www.biodiesel.org/
)there is loads of info on biodiesel on the web
http://www.biodiesel.org/
Fancy fuel,in any standard engine,is as much of a waste of money as those fancy dog foods with pasta and vegetables in them.
It's only once engines get tuned that they require 'special' fuel.
Standard engines (bikes or cars) are designed to run perfectly on the worst kind of fuels available in the world.
I've used all sorts of fancy fuel in my bike racing days.
All sorts of additives as well.
They would literally make your eyes water.
They were needed because of the increased compression ratios that race-tuned engines run,and the risk of detonation that comes with it.
It's only once engines get tuned that they require 'special' fuel.
Standard engines (bikes or cars) are designed to run perfectly on the worst kind of fuels available in the world.
I've used all sorts of fancy fuel in my bike racing days.
All sorts of additives as well.
They would literally make your eyes water.
They were needed because of the increased compression ratios that race-tuned engines run,and the risk of detonation that comes with it.
I've tried Utima etc, didn't notice any difference so it's usually Tesco for me because it's convenient & cheap.
[ QUOTE ]
I was buying only from BP for the first 3 or four months after getting my A3.I then tried shell and Esso and found I got better milage from BP.I then went to sainsburys as I was running on vapour one day and got over 40 miles more out of the tank.I tend to only use the supermarkerts in emergencys after hearing a few tales on the diesel forum regarding sand in the tanks etc.I would give the chip fat a go to see what it went like (maybe the week before I trade it in )
there is loads of info on biodiesel on the web
http://www.biodiesel.org/
[/ QUOTE ]
An associate of mine uses "chip fat" filtered by himself in his truck - it runs fine and is sooooo cheap. However, strictly speaking you are supposed to tell the tax man and make your payment to him (which of course he does). Still cheaper though. Tax on fuel is tax on fuel no matter where it comes from - same for red diesel - if u use it on the road it is illegal because you have not paid tax on it.....
I was buying only from BP for the first 3 or four months after getting my A3.I then tried shell and Esso and found I got better milage from BP.I then went to sainsburys as I was running on vapour one day and got over 40 miles more out of the tank.I tend to only use the supermarkerts in emergencys after hearing a few tales on the diesel forum regarding sand in the tanks etc.I would give the chip fat a go to see what it went like (maybe the week before I trade it in
)there is loads of info on biodiesel on the web
http://www.biodiesel.org/
[/ QUOTE ]
An associate of mine uses "chip fat" filtered by himself in his truck - it runs fine and is sooooo cheap. However, strictly speaking you are supposed to tell the tax man and make your payment to him (which of course he does). Still cheaper though. Tax on fuel is tax on fuel no matter where it comes from - same for red diesel - if u use it on the road it is illegal because you have not paid tax on it.....
Eeef
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[ QUOTE ]
- if u use it on the road it is illegal because you have not paid tax on it.....
[/ QUOTE ]
Not strictly true. You need to put an additive into the chip fat and it's the type of additive that you put in that decide whether or not you pay duty.
Clarkson did this on Top Gear a while back but can't remember what the different additives were.
- if u use it on the road it is illegal because you have not paid tax on it.....
[/ QUOTE ]
Not strictly true. You need to put an additive into the chip fat and it's the type of additive that you put in that decide whether or not you pay duty.
Clarkson did this on Top Gear a while back but can't remember what the different additives were.
bowfer, no difference to what kind of fuel one uses in a car? Are you driving some 80's car Oldsmobile?-)
At least in petrol engines, there's a difference between different octanes, the amount of sulphur and such. I'm not into blowing my catalysators because I could save some money for not using non-sulphur gasoline. And on the other hand, using 95 would make my mpg go lower (noticeable), and performance down (noticeable). So in the end I would pay more.
And if I filled up in Russia.. well let's just say that would be the end of my engine and my warranty.
There's a big difference in fuels for today's cars.
- Yak
At least in petrol engines, there's a difference between different octanes, the amount of sulphur and such. I'm not into blowing my catalysators because I could save some money for not using non-sulphur gasoline. And on the other hand, using 95 would make my mpg go lower (noticeable), and performance down (noticeable). So in the end I would pay more.
And if I filled up in Russia.. well let's just say that would be the end of my engine and my warranty.
There's a big difference in fuels for today's cars.
- Yak
Yak
Manufacturers build cars (and bikes)to suit the lowest 'common denominator' (for want of a better term) in fuel for their worldwide markets.
Simple as that.
It does not make sense for them to 'alter' compression ratios for different markets so they build in a huge margin of safety for the dodgiest fuel out there.
I've seen tests of different fuels which show there's little/no difference in performance.
I've spoken to fuel reps who openly admitted these 'fancy' fuels,for standard engines,are little more than an attempt to make people switch to their brand.
I've also spoken to engine tuners who said the same thing.
Any old fuel (for a given octane rating) does for standard engines.
Fancy fuel is for tuned engines.
Manufacturers build cars (and bikes)to suit the lowest 'common denominator' (for want of a better term) in fuel for their worldwide markets.
Simple as that.
It does not make sense for them to 'alter' compression ratios for different markets so they build in a huge margin of safety for the dodgiest fuel out there.
I've seen tests of different fuels which show there's little/no difference in performance.
I've spoken to fuel reps who openly admitted these 'fancy' fuels,for standard engines,are little more than an attempt to make people switch to their brand.
I've also spoken to engine tuners who said the same thing.
Any old fuel (for a given octane rating) does for standard engines.
Fancy fuel is for tuned engines.
Bottom line is, if the supermarket fuels were so substandard that it effectively reduced the lifespan of your car's engine, then Tesco's et al can expect a very costly lawsuit in the near future.
The fact is that they do not. BP etc may be providing an improved product for your extra pennies, but other than stripping down two identical engines after 100,000 miles, are you going to tell? Hmmm, I'll be surprised if they haven't done that to substantiate their claims......then again, perhaps not so surprised.
The fact is that they do not. BP etc may be providing an improved product for your extra pennies, but other than stripping down two identical engines after 100,000 miles, are you going to tell? Hmmm, I'll be surprised if they haven't done that to substantiate their claims......then again, perhaps not so surprised.
rickquattro
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[ QUOTE ]
Changing fuel alone,and expecting to see improvements,is a cart before the horse situation.
Fuel should only really come into the equation as a result of other factors,such as tuning.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, with you on this. Both my bikes are quite simple, ie not injection systems. Both have modified cams, carbs, exhausts and increased compression. They were set up with Optimax and as such are "normal" (read brilliant), with this fuel. Ordinary unleaded makes them run very badly and "pink" easily. The engine work made the fuel change nessesary.
Does an electronic fuel injection system (diesel or petrol), sense the octance level of the fuel and compensate accordingly?
Rick
Changing fuel alone,and expecting to see improvements,is a cart before the horse situation.
Fuel should only really come into the equation as a result of other factors,such as tuning.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, with you on this. Both my bikes are quite simple, ie not injection systems. Both have modified cams, carbs, exhausts and increased compression. They were set up with Optimax and as such are "normal" (read brilliant), with this fuel. Ordinary unleaded makes them run very badly and "pink" easily. The engine work made the fuel change nessesary.
Does an electronic fuel injection system (diesel or petrol), sense the octance level of the fuel and compensate accordingly?
Rick
With my parents Cavalier there was a chip thing in the engine bay which you flipped over depending whether you were using 95 or 91 octane UL, to change the ignition timing I think. That was 10 years ago. I should imagine that the latest cars can do that automatically. But I don't know how they "sense" what grade fuel you are using?
Eeef
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Same in my brothers Red Rose Cerbera. Flick between 95 & 98 Octane.
Revo will let you do the same thing to any tuning pattern including race fuel (for the cars that can get the OneClick system.
Revo will let you do the same thing to any tuning pattern including race fuel (for the cars that can get the OneClick system.
[ QUOTE ]
There is 100 Octane petrol in Germany, that's really worth a go on the Autobahn if your over there.
[/ QUOTE ]
The ADAC (German AA) done a review on the different fuels on the market and came to the conclusion that the 100 Octane wasn't worth the extra money and weren't convinced that it was providing anything extra over 98 Octane.
There is 100 Octane petrol in Germany, that's really worth a go on the Autobahn if your over there.
[/ QUOTE ]
The ADAC (German AA) done a review on the different fuels on the market and came to the conclusion that the 100 Octane wasn't worth the extra money and weren't convinced that it was providing anything extra over 98 Octane.
It is the knock sensor in effect that indicates to the engine management the grade of fuel being used.
Ah, yes heard of that. Does it do what it says on the tin? Sensors a knock sound when the ignition timing is out - i.e. happens as the piston is still rising rather than just after it starts to fall back, or much later as there is some "slack" before being hit by the explosion?
But how does it know if it is too early or too late? Does the knock sound different?
Sorry, I've gone all technical here.
But how does it know if it is too early or too late? Does the knock sound different?
Sorry, I've gone all technical here.
[ QUOTE ]
I just use whatever's cheapest, supermarket or otherwise!
I've never noticed a difference between any supplier to be honest....
[/ QUOTE ]
I've never noticed a difference either
I just use whatever's cheapest, supermarket or otherwise!
I've never noticed a difference between any supplier to be honest....
[/ QUOTE ]
I've never noticed a difference either
bowfer, certainly you can then explain, why some engines aren't sold in every country then?-)
And of course, you can explain us also why knocking sensors are in the car, if they're ineffective? And why advanced ECU, if they can't do anything about the fuel quality?
There's certainly a difference, you're talking about 80's technology in this sense, these days car do change their ignition timing, and they do it all the time, for economy and power. Computers in car aren't an accident, if they weren't needed, they wouldn't be there.
- Yak
And of course, you can explain us also why knocking sensors are in the car, if they're ineffective? And why advanced ECU, if they can't do anything about the fuel quality?
There's certainly a difference, you're talking about 80's technology in this sense, these days car do change their ignition timing, and they do it all the time, for economy and power. Computers in car aren't an accident, if they weren't needed, they wouldn't be there.
- Yak
[ QUOTE ]
I just use whatever's cheapest, supermarket or otherwise!
I've never noticed a difference between any supplier to be honest....
[/ QUOTE ]
Same here. Diesel is expensive enough at the moment thanks to high oil prices and previous demand for winter fuel.
I recall several years ago a mainstream magazine (like Autocar or Auto Express) running a feature on fuel quality between BP, Esso and Shell against the Supermarkets and there was no tangible difference in quality.
I think the best solution is to use diesel from as many different sources as possible. Everything in moderation and all that! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I just use whatever's cheapest, supermarket or otherwise!
I've never noticed a difference between any supplier to be honest....
[/ QUOTE ]
Same here. Diesel is expensive enough at the moment thanks to high oil prices and previous demand for winter fuel.
I recall several years ago a mainstream magazine (like Autocar or Auto Express) running a feature on fuel quality between BP, Esso and Shell against the Supermarkets and there was no tangible difference in quality.
I think the best solution is to use diesel from as many different sources as possible. Everything in moderation and all that! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[ QUOTE ]
bowfer, certainly you can then explain, why some engines aren't sold in every country then?-)
And of course, you can explain us also why knocking sensors are in the car, if they're ineffective? And why advanced ECU, if they can't do anything about the fuel quality?
There's certainly a difference, you're talking about 80's technology in this sense, these days car do change their ignition timing, and they do it all the time, for economy and power. Computers in car aren't an accident, if they weren't needed, they wouldn't be there.
- Yak
[/ QUOTE ]
Good old Yak - always up for a fight! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
Yak I think you are right in some sense, as far as fuel qualities are concerned from country to country. However, within the EU (and certainly within the UK) its fair to assume that fuel standards are very close.
Knocking sensors are generally used as an insurance policy to enable engines to run as advanced timings as possible, without running the risk of detonation. I don't think their primary purpose is to cope with varying fuel qualities, although that may be a useful side effect.
Ignition timings, fuel / air mixes etc are indeed changed all the time by ECUs, but I think you will find this is not because your fuel quality is changing as you drive! It has more to do with engine load, throttle position, engine speed, atomspheric pressure, air temperature etc etc etc.
Lets also remember we are talking about diesel here, and the main selling point of one brand over the other tends to concern additives to the fuel, rather than the quality of the fuel itself. In terms of the enviroment, emmisions, or cleanliness of your injectors, there may be some difference between brands in the UK, but I seriously doubt there is any detectable difference in terms of power gains between them.
I think the best policy is to use the petrol station nearest you at the time your fuel light comes on!
On a lighter note - I have done 542 miles on a tank. Can anyone beat that?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
bowfer, certainly you can then explain, why some engines aren't sold in every country then?-)
And of course, you can explain us also why knocking sensors are in the car, if they're ineffective? And why advanced ECU, if they can't do anything about the fuel quality?
There's certainly a difference, you're talking about 80's technology in this sense, these days car do change their ignition timing, and they do it all the time, for economy and power. Computers in car aren't an accident, if they weren't needed, they wouldn't be there.
- Yak
[/ QUOTE ]
Good old Yak - always up for a fight! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
Yak I think you are right in some sense, as far as fuel qualities are concerned from country to country. However, within the EU (and certainly within the UK) its fair to assume that fuel standards are very close.
Knocking sensors are generally used as an insurance policy to enable engines to run as advanced timings as possible, without running the risk of detonation. I don't think their primary purpose is to cope with varying fuel qualities, although that may be a useful side effect.
Ignition timings, fuel / air mixes etc are indeed changed all the time by ECUs, but I think you will find this is not because your fuel quality is changing as you drive! It has more to do with engine load, throttle position, engine speed, atomspheric pressure, air temperature etc etc etc.
Lets also remember we are talking about diesel here, and the main selling point of one brand over the other tends to concern additives to the fuel, rather than the quality of the fuel itself. In terms of the enviroment, emmisions, or cleanliness of your injectors, there may be some difference between brands in the UK, but I seriously doubt there is any detectable difference in terms of power gains between them.
I think the best policy is to use the petrol station nearest you at the time your fuel light comes on!
On a lighter note - I have done 542 miles on a tank. Can anyone beat that?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
Read and weep - 582, or was it 586, I'll check when I get home. Had 1.5 litres left in the tank. Consistently get around 550 a tank with a couple of litres left.
Bought Tesco's own in the end as it was the cheapest at 85.9.
Bought Tesco's own in the end as it was the cheapest at 85.9.
586 miles to tank full !.Stop pootling around and drive the thing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
