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Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by ajda3, Nov 11, 2009.
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i agree with Kav but the debate is surrounding either the 2wd A3 or Quattro A3.....
Yup well said Kave, a very sensible yet serious piece of advice...
He never asked about which would be easiest to live with though Tim, he's trying to get the best out of a car at the age of 17, perhaps I'm unique, but getting the best out of a car to me would be making it the most enjoyable to drive, in terms of performance and comfort. the 4wd won't be any more comfy, but it'll be less interesting to drive.
lets face it, during normal day to day driving, there is no need for the 4wd system at all, it's only when putting your foot down that it comes into play, so as far as a dailly driver for typical commuting goes, the FWD has it beaten by virtue of the MUCH improved fuel economy due to it's low weight and lower transmission losses.
and if we're after typical 17 year old hooning around and feeling like your the stig, the 4wd car that never breaks traction at all isn't exactly going to light a fire in anyones heart..... didn't Glen sell his S3 eventually because it was mind bogglingly capable, yet utterly dull and uninvolving to drive?
Perhaps this is one occasion where I might be best equiped to advice? seeing as I am still young, as you like to point out, much like the OP.
I even tried to be nice be saying I like S3's at the start of my post (which i really do!) but i still get shot down
Kave's advice is very sound though, and should be noted.
I think he'd be better off with 4wd, especially as he intends to modify in the future. Surely its best to think ahead at buy something now that will cope with the extra power.
FWD and around 200bhp is frustrating in poor weather (most of the time in the UK), RWD is fun but still can be frustrating with alot of power if trying to make progress in bad weather.
That said, he is only 17. Even a 1.8T is quite a car for a novice. Most people learn in a banger and make their mistakes in something cheap before progressing to something nice!
Anyone said 'Transmission Losses' yet?
I have a chipped 1.8TQS with the K03 (not the S - i think anyway)
I've got 206bhp and 234 lbft torque - measured from the VAG-COM (apparently rather reliable)
Sounds good? Not so....
Also about 30% transmission losses as measured on a dyno, so in reality it's only 140 bhp through the wheels.
Whats the losses on a FWD 1.8T
As most driving is 'driving' and not 'pulling away from the lights/junction' then go for the 1.8T FWD. You'll also benefit from lighter weight in 'cornering' and also 'braking'
I used to race hillclimbs in a Caterham, and take from the experience of this as lightness gives better acceleration, cornering and braking.
If on a track the braking is where you make up most of the time, and a heavy car hinders this.
In short, you'll enjoy the 1.8T FWD, don't think about the heavier, slower 4WD, unless you have an obsession with power, where you'll need it. Isn't the Veryon 4WD??
2p well an truly spent.
Must read all posts.
ok prawn we'll agree to disagree as normal..... so to summarise the A3 is best for day to day use because of the weight, tranny losses etc etc, and when it comes to hammering it the A3 is best too once modded...... i may aswell sell my beloved S3 cos i don't know what i bought it for
quattro! its a no brainer!
for fucks sake Timmy, read what I've written properly, I'm agreeing that the S3 is the best of the bunch! but given the choice of the fwd or the TQ, the FWD makes more sense every time.....
An average driver can drive a good car well,
but it takes a good driver to drive an average car well
Get a basic Focus as it will out-handle an S3 but couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding.
Then go and embarras an S3 on a country lane and feel really smug.
Everyone wants somthing different from their car
work out what youwant then decide what's important to you and if quattro fits
I reckon he should get a Golf.
I totally agree Jojo!
a nice fwd mk4 golf gti 1.8T, far cooler for a 17 year old anyway
500-1000 cheaper for the equiv mk4 too
Possibly a bit cheaper to insure also?
Can we keep the language down please.
FWD or Quattro...they both have their pluses and minuses,you being 17 I'd say go with the cheaper option.
yup being 17 you shouldnt be driving either in reality, not the best thing jumping out of a learner car into a 1.8 turbo
Thanks for all your help guys
Btw i'm not a chav thats looking to floor it 24/7 but i want more of a reliable car that is easier to live with everyday, but then when some tw*t in a saxo vtr pulls up and starts revving i can put them in their place lol
and tbh i've never really liked golf
that may be because my mum's had two though so i see it as a mum's car lol
Cheers for all your input etc
after seeing everything it sounds like quattro would be the better choice as many people who have had both wouldn't go back to 2wd, and that says alot!!!
Insurance will be a killer and i understand Kave saying that i shouldnt have that powerful a car, but tbh i'm not an idiot and won't push beyond my own boundries cause i'd look after the car like its the actual god!! And i've seen what happens to idiots in powerful cars (mostly mates in old golfs lol)
But yeah like i say,
Quattro seems to be the stronger argument but i'll test drive both before deciding.
Any more suggestions will help (Y)
You'll not have any trouble with Saxos in either car to be honest!.
dunno mate, vts is quite a rapid french matchbox
They are pretty quick but only have short legs! (good handling though). Round town it'll be close but get an open road and it'll run out of puff quicker.
Obviously the O/P isnt going to drive like a bell end though so this conversations pretty pointless
Buy a FWD drive and save getting clattered on insurance You're at the start of your driving life....one step at a time...etc
Those with 2wd are bound to suggest them but anyone that has owned both always suggests the quattro. Why do Audi always put their quattro system on the flagship cars?
Even with added weight, transmission losses, blah blah blah, it still makes for a more satisfying progress-making drive with traction never an issue.
I still think any of the above mentioned cars are a big step for a inexperienced driver though.
My second car was an Escort RS Turbo when i was 18. But my first was a 1.3 escort!
I think what people are saying is (certainly the 2wd owners) is that is not all "OH MY GOD YOU'RE GOING TO SKID OFF THE ROAD AND DIE A FIREY DEATH BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE QUATTRO" or "YOU WONT BE ABLE TO PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN" if you buy a 2wd car which some people are hinting at here. The 2wd drive cars are still very capable but the way some people are banging on about it you'd think they're useless.
As for why its on flag ship cars?, because its a quality item. However plenty of cars (and much quicker cars than mapped S3's etc) manage just fine without it, always have done and always will. Quattro, whilst good isnt the be all and end all by a very long way and certainly doesnt turn someone into a 'driving god' :icon_thumright:
True, unfortunately the cars aren't excellent 'drivers' cars but safe instead. Lots of cars out there do very well with 2wd. Porsche also obviously make a 4wd version of their 911 which is heavier and slightly slower but gets the power down better, if slightly worse fun for it. Same applies to the Turbo model and various Lambos etc.
I like the idea of hot hatches with 4wd (even if its only semi 4x4). It just makes it that bit more special and is a very nice feeling out of bumpy corners and wet roundabouts, still a novelty nearly a year on.
The mapped S3 is definately a match for my M3 on the Peak district roads i live around simply because it gets its power down.
I'd like a go in a Focus RS or Megane R26 around the same roads to see what they're like. I'm guessing the high torque and fwd nature will be exposed on these roads but the handling confidence might win it back!
I'd have an S3 over one of those any day. I think the nice thing about the S3 is that they're quick enough but they're also a nice place to be. Spend a day in a Focus RS or Megane R26 and you're teeth will have fallen out. The S3 is a nice blend of speed and comfort. You feel like you're doing 200mph in the Focus if you're doing 50mph, its always 'full fat'. The S3 is a great comfy car that you can sit back and relax in when you want to, comfy seats, nice cabin etc etc. Sure it pays for it in weight but I'd take that over having a cabin thats basic and loud.
Focus and Megane for pure handling I'd say would have the edge,...but you'll never be going fast enough on a public road to appreciate it. I'd say they'd be a great 2nd car for blasting about on a nice day and the odd track day but every day??..oooooh no. Not for me.
I've had both and as much as I love quattro with the S3, like I said in an earlier post if I personally was to go back to an A3 I'd get the fwd...
For reasons your fully aware of, weight, transmission losses blah blah blah...lol
You can get away with it in an S3 because of the potential for 250bhp+...
I can't see it's needed in an A3 capable of 210bhp, it's going to feel slow and heavy in my eyes, yes better launching from standstill in the wet but how often does that happen...
I remember being 17 and it was actually quite nice to light the fronts up sometimes, gives that feeling of power and excitement
Each to there own though, be boring if we all thought the same...
Guess you're right. Reminds me of th eCivic Type R, that was all or nothing. Great fun but not very relaxing when you weren't in the mood, and nasty in the wet. I borrowed my friends new CTR last year for a week and while it was nice to drive and be in, it was hard to make fast relaxed progress especially in the wet!
I'd still like a go in one of the above though just to see for myself
True, i guess the original post was about A3 2wd or Quattro (not S3). I too used to like the idea of abit of wheel spin. My fiesta RS spun in all 3 gears in the dry but i was put in my place by a V6 406 along a country lane, after that my thoughts changed...And driving!
The Quattro has a different turbo and 30bhp more out of the box though, so still the better car...Comes with higher insurance though, something i feel he is going to struggle with with either variant!
Ive got the a3 tqs. Its good for just normal driving really, in racing terms its about the same speed as the 150bhp.
Surely if your 17 I think you might end up killing yourself TBH with 200bhp at the front wheels ( unless youve been driving year)?. Petrol is getting on my nerves now, I spends around £30 a week on petrol ( Not good if you are not on a lot a week ) tax is 200 quid a year your insurance must be over £2500. Mine was £1800 with 1 years ncb and years experience.
If you can afford it though go for it, but dont forgot about the running costs. My veiw is nice cars are for rich people ( thatll probally cause an argument ! )
I think youd enjoy the quattro, but definately get it remapped. Being 18 when i got the car, just tunred 19, I never thought it being slow or heavy, as ive never really driving any other car. Its fast enough for me and my driving cabablities atm.
such a waste of money £2-3k a year on insurance....just think if you wait you would be able to afford a luvely car in few years...... i started of with a 1.4, not because i couldnt afford bigger power, more because i hated wasting money on mandatory insurance which is essentially dead money.....
I agree, the insurance will be worth more than the car.
I was rocking a 1983 Polo Coupe Sport for my first car...75bhp of utter win!.
Yeah I agree, be more sensible to get something cheaper to run about in, shocking really how much people throw at cars now at such a young age.
I had a £500 Mk 1 golf 1.1L, totally gutless but I loved it, didn't last very long though and got rit off due to inexperience.
There will be stupid mistakes when you start driving, be it a big bump or small...worth getting experience in something small slow and cheap...
My first car I owned was a Mk2 Golf 1.3 with -60mm sprints and uprated shocks! The car was never quick in a straight line, but it handled so nicely, and that's where the fun is at!
I've got a mk2 Golf GTi 16v, so much fun to drive!
So basically, everyones opinion is different so test drive both and see which one fits my preferences best??
Cause there are so many contradicting arguments here its manic!!
Haha pretty much. I wish you'd just gone and test driven both instead of causing all the arguments on this thread
It is quite funny watching people argue out though tbh.
It does seem that all people that have had both prefer quattro
thats about the decision i have so far
yup i had another convo with another member at the weekend regards the same thread, same as me, had an A3 and wouldnt go back..... but like everyone says they prefer quattro have gone straight for an S3 so not exactly mirroring your requirements..... get sumat basic for the first couple years...... £6000 for 2 years insurance is madness, you could have a life for that!!! including 2-3 decent (not cheap) holidays a year!!
My first Audi was a 2002 A4 1.8T. First ever decent motor I had ever had the chance to own and was thrilled to bits with it. Didn't even consider a quattro back then due to age and not really knowing too much about them. Had it revo'd and although I was chuffed to bits with the performance of a big heavy car I found it had made it hard work to drive tbh.
After that I went to 2000 facelift S4. I remember having a huge grin on my face when it finally sunk in that I was the proud owner of a 2.7 V6 BiTurbo! But what impressed me more than the downright speed and acceleration of it was the was the Quattro keeping everything in check.
Launching it off the lights and just pure grip and the feeling of being pushed from behind instead of dragged from the front. I never found the limits to its abilities as I always lost my nerve first lol
Due to work being **** I was forced into selling it after only a year and going over to diesel bangers.
2 years later and back in an S3. That quattro has really been missed since the S4. I really needed it in the heavy snow back in Feb, my 406 hdi estate was uncontrollabe lo l
In my own personal opinion I dont think I would ever go back to fwd unless I had to but everyone has their own opinion and own ideas of what they want their car to be.