1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Quattro 1/2 sec faster 0-62mph, or is it?

Daz Auto Dec 22, 2013

  1. Daz Auto

    Daz Auto Active Member

    583
    150
    43
    I was just comparing the acceleration of an A3 Quattro 184ps and a Golf GTD. Both have the same engine, just 4WD vs. 2WD.

    Quattro 6.9 sec vs. GTD 7.5 sec?

    So I then compared the Audi 1.8 TFSI Quattro and the Audi 1.8 TFSI FWD.

    Quattro 6.8 sec vs. FWD 7.3 sec!

    So it would appear that the Quattro is 1/2 sec faster from 0-62mph. Though my theory is that the 30-62 times are going to be the same, as the Quattro's advantage is initial traction. Above 30 that advantage would be less of a factor.

    Anyone know where I would find the 50-70mph figures for the 1.8 TFSI Quattro and FWD. Maybe the in gear acceleration numbers for a comparison?
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
    TDI-line likes this.
  2. PilotAudi

    PilotAudi New Member

    2,352
    479
    0
    quattro and A3 is I believe lighter!
     
  3. Cumbrian_bob

    Cumbrian_bob Member

    227
    104
    16
    Interesting figures, surprised the quattro makes such a difference. I am sure it adds exta weight, so really its even more impressive.

    I dont think the 30+ acceleration would be as dramaitc, but then its cornering ability and also condistion in other road condition will also make a difference.

    But comparing different manufacturers isnt as good as the same car with and without quattro
     
  4. Daz Auto

    Daz Auto Active Member

    583
    150
    43
    I have edited my first post to make it clear that the second set of numbers are both for the Audi A3 1.8 TFSI.

    Yes, Quattro adds 100kg.
     
  5. Cumbrian_bob

    Cumbrian_bob Member

    227
    104
    16
    Really is impressive then between the same car just with the additiona of quattro
     
  6. Daz Auto

    Daz Auto Active Member

    583
    150
    43
    Golf GTD - kerb weight 1377kg

    A3 184ps TDI Quattro - unladen weight 1425kg
     
  7. PilotAudi

    PilotAudi New Member

    2,352
    479
    0
    Oh well it's all quattro then !!
     
  8. Daz Auto

    Daz Auto Active Member

    583
    150
    43
    Yes, especially as the FWD Audi 1.8 TFSI has a better power to weight ratio.

    140ps per ton vs. 130ps per ton for the Quattro?
     
  9. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User quattro Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group TDi

    5,365
    2,335
    113
    Quattro makes all the difference when launching, especially when you get over 200bhp. You are only talking about tenths of seconds here.
    if you were to take the 0-100 time I bet the 2wd would have made the time up with the reduced transmission losses and less weight.
    And in gear acceleration when moving 50-70 the 2wd will be quicker as it's not traction limited.

    Karl.
     
    Daz Auto likes this.
  10. snakehips

    snakehips Well-Known Member

    735
    261
    63
    Any of these time differences noticeable to the person driving the car?
     
    Daz Auto likes this.
  11. Daz Auto

    Daz Auto Active Member

    583
    150
    43
    lmao... no!
     
  12. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    1,306
    126
    63
    Coming from a FWD car with 260 ponies, I can't wait for my S3 as I'll have the grip in the dry/wet/cold, unlike FWD where (with 260bhp) you sometimes don't even have it in the dry! That's all I really care about :)
     
    S. and lee_fr200 like this.
  13. lee_fr200

    lee_fr200 Active Member

    820
    189
    43


    In my last car I had 300hp fwd and the car only weighed 1000kg so it was very light and that was a nightmare for wheelspin it did 0-60in 4.9 with the wheels spinning like crazy (even had a quaife diff) when you think the S3 has 300hp but has 4wd and an extra 400/450kg than I had and that does 0-60 in the same time it shows how good 4wd is over fwd

    but from a rolling start it decimated all, killed a jag s type R, m3 scoobys even beat a nice new Porsche Carrera 4s
     
    PilotAudi likes this.
  14. steeve

    steeve Well-Known Member TeamMisano Team Ibis Audi S3

    2,703
    1,519
    113
    I'm not convinced by the published figures, having had quick 4wd cars and quick front wheel drive cars perhaps for the less experienced the all wheel drive is quicker but at sprints and hill climbs I've been to the two wheel drive cars seem to have the edge using controlled wheel spin to get a better launch off the line. I feel that the increase in power to weight ratio and educed mechanical power losses probably offset the difference.
     
    deanshaw24 likes this.
  15. kenny_boon

    kenny_boon Active Member

    466
    71
    28
    the GTD may have restricted torque in 1st and 2nd to help traction? ;)
     
  16. RobH_S3

    RobH_S3 Active Member

    440
    206
    43
    So your suggesting that with an experienced driver and controlled wheels spin a fwd car is better for launching? hmmm don't think so.

    60ft times for 4wd is around 1.5 secs with road tyres and about 300hp
    60ft times for fwd cars is around 2.1 secs with road tyres and about 300hp

    Maybe under 200hp the weight and transmission losses offset the difference to 60mph but the more you increase the power the bigger the difference. 300hp+ would be embarrassing for the fwd car to 60mph.
     
    PilotAudi likes this.
  17. PilotAudi

    PilotAudi New Member

    2,352
    479
    0
    Saab.. Turbo experts reckon more than 150bhp through front wheels wasn't good.. they tried but not very successfully. For my 2p quattro is best... RWD second for powerful cars.
     
  18. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User quattro Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group TDi

    5,365
    2,335
    113
    The fastest cars in the world, top fuel dragsters are RWD, but they are a special case.
    Weight transfer is what works against a FWD car and regardless of what you do with fancy diffs and the like that will always work against you.
    A quattro car isn't always quicker. The 1.9 TDI quattro B5.5 does 0-60 in 10.4 seconds the FWD does it in 9.9 . The car only has 130bhp so traction isn't an issue.
    As stated above there comes a point where quattro works better than FWD and thats around 200-250bhp, RWD is probably closer to 300bhp. But this is only for the special circumstance of a standing start or acceleration from a very slow speed.
    Once you have hit 40 or 50 the advantage is very much reduced unless conditions are very slippy.
    I love the A4 quattro I have now as I don't really have to think about how much throttle I can give it to control wheel spin it just launches.

    Karl.
     
  19. Sootchucker

    Sootchucker Member

    101
    9
    18
    I have been thinking the same thing, as my GTD DSG loves to spin it's wheels in 1st and 2nd gear (but that may be more down to the sh1t Bridgestone Potenza types it's came out of the factory with), as it certainly seems to have a lot more torque available once rolling.

    VW do state in their GTD and GTI literature, that both models are fitted with an "anti tramp" function, so I'm only guessing, but maybe that is limited power from a standing start via software ?
     
  20. Daz Auto

    Daz Auto Active Member

    583
    150
    43
    What is still confusing me about this is that the Golf GTD manual and automatic both have the same 0-60 times of 7.5sec.

    The Audi A3 150ps TDI manual 8.6sec and the Stronic 8.3.

    So how can the GTD have the same times. Copy and paste?

    Surely the 184ps GTD automatic should be at least 0.3 faster than the manual GTD - or an even bigger difference than the Audi A3 150ps data above.

    It looks like Audi tested some Stronics and just used the manual figures for others. And VW have just used the manual figures for their automatics.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
  21. windyzz

    windyzz New Member

    24
    20
    3
    I've driven 1.8TFSI FWD and AWD back to back. I owned the 1.8 FWD.

    The FWD feels quicker and it's quite noticeable in between gear acceleration. The Quattro will be quicker off the line due to launch control and traction. but once moving the 100kg lighter FWD is more nimble and faster. The FWD also has a better top speed (according to the brochure

    Note: the FWD is not only lighter, but the 7 speed DSG is bit more efficient (i.e. it doesn't lose as much power) vs the 6 Speed - Wet vs dry clutch
     
    SJ43 likes this.
  22. Stephen C

    Stephen C Active Member

    259
    37
    28
    Regarding the 1.8 TFSI, it's misleading as the FWD and Quattro versions have different power outputs due to the different S tronic gearboxes they use.

    The FWD uses the 7-speed and is limited to 250Nm of torque (same as the 1.4 COD), the Quattro uses the 6-speed DSG and has a higher torque output of 280Nm.
     
  23. windyzz

    windyzz New Member

    24
    20
    3
    That's correct, but few people dyno'd the FWD 1.8 TFSI and they are getting closer to 276nm of torque and around 200bhp at the flywheel

    I do believe the 100kg weight advantage and efficiency of the FWD power/torque at the wheel(4 wheel drive loses ~+-30% power at the wheel, FWD loses ~+-15% power at the wheels) gave it bit of acceleration advantage over the Quattro once the car is moving
     
    SJ43 likes this.
  24. Daz Auto

    Daz Auto Active Member

    583
    150
    43
    Thank you. It is good to hear the experience of actual owners.

    It is difficult to get an accurate impression from a 1 hour test drive. Or even a 24 hour test drive. It is also difficult when you are sitting in a nice, shiny new car to be objective.

    There are a few videos on youtube comparing the acceleration of the old 140/170ps engines and the new 150/184ps engines. The new 150ps looks to be just as quick as the 170ps which I currently drive. I thought there would be more difference between the 150 and 184ps Quattro in the video. Especially at higher speeds.

    I was reading on another forum that a weight reduction of 100kg = 20hp. (Must empty my boot.)
     
  25. tarm3000

    tarm3000 New Member

    2
    0
    1

    That´s completely wrong.

    1.) What you believed to feel is misperception, because everything just goes softer/smoother and more elegant in the Quattro model. But no way slower. The 1.8 TFSI Quattro is the stronger car having more torque with 280 to 250Nm. You wrote that in measurements the FWD has ~280Nm but sorry mate, as a tuner owning a project 1.8 TFSI Quattro I can tell you that it also had 306Nm measured when stock. Also it has the *much* better DQ250 6 speed DSG which shifts smoother because it`s not the cheap "compact car" dry clutch but the more upper-class oil clutch and so your argument "wet vs dry clutch" is pointless as all better DSG´s excepting the cheap compact car DQ200 are having oil clutch. Look into german forums where you can find several threads about the jerky starting and hard shifting DQ200 which audi only used to save money for smaller engines like 1.0/1.2 or 1.4 TFSI (I agree that they should have given the DQ250 to all 1.8 TFSI models and not only the Quattro).

    2.) 0-200 km/h is 30,2 sec with the Quattro and 33,5 sec with your FWD. Measured with to stock cars from germanys largest Audi Zentrum in Dortmund. So tell me, where is the FWD "more nimble" or "faster" now? The top speed is ~4 km/h less, thats right. But that only due to shorter gear ratio in the top gear.

    3.) It´s not 100kg heavier, only 85kg to be exactly. Which is more then equalized by the better torque and better (quicker shifting) transmission (which does NOT loose any more horsepower, it just needs more VOLTAGE and therefore FUEL, thats a difference and does NOT affect wheel power in any way).

    4.) You wrote "...4 wheel drive loses ~+-30% power at the wheel, FWD loses ~+-15% power at the wheels..." Now, thats the next wrong fact. It´s a myth, a relict remaining from the old TORSEN Quattro still used at larger Audi models. Torsen is always active 50:50 whereas HALDEX used in the A3 Quattro disconneting the rear axle when no wheelspin is detected. And at speeds >70km/h >45mp/h there is no more wheelspin so on every highway or Autobahn the Haldex Quattro model will not suffer from any AWD power loss. Because it is a FWD car in all those situations and speed levels.

    If you watch Youtube videos like that one



    you will realize how much more powerful the Quattro accelerates even from 100-200 km/h. It´s circa 18 sec (speedo) compared to usually 21-22 sec (speedo) for the AWD model with less torque. And torque means everything even at Autobahn speeds. The Quattro allows 30 more of it due to his MUCH better DSG (DQ250 tuneable up to 550Nm and DQ200 maximum to 330Nm). Oh, and as i am a tuner myself i can tell you that most of the A3 1.8 AWD I had here we measured with average numbers like 188, 183 or maybe sometimes 191hp but never with the 200hp you meantioned. Whereas the few Quattro models we saw measured at 203 and 194 and 191hp...Audi selects the better performin engines for their Quattro models to compensate the 85kg more weight, that´s an open secret and even a good contact in Ingolstadt (audi engineering) confirmed that last year.

    Now, due to it´s much better potential, our A3 Quattro has 300hp and 420Nm Stage 2 which we could never have done with the -sorry- shitty AWD S-tronic model. Shitty because having poor traction at traffic starts and even more poor DQ200 dry clutch that you will not find in ANY bigger model. It´s a big fortune for every 1.8 Quattro owner that Audi built the grown-up oil clutch of the S3 into that model.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  26. tarm3000

    tarm3000 New Member

    2
    0
    1

    Hello,

    please read my reply to that garbage. He is wrong, I think he just loves his car and "wanted" to feel the imaginary "better" acceleration of his car. But the opposite is true. Quattro version has way more torque and reaches his maximum hp already at ~4500rpm whereas the FWD model needs 6000rpm to reach max power.... Hope you didnt already buy the wrong car. Take a TFSI Quattro all the time, it´s another league of driving and accelerating with a grwon-up DSG and not the rough shifting "compact car dry clutch" DQ200. Not to mention the 100 times better tuning potential....
     
  27. windyzz

    windyzz New Member

    24
    20
    3
    Dude,

    You are referring to YouTube video. I test drove both car and the acceleration once you're moving feels more livelier in the fwd.

    And in the initial turn in awd carries more weight and you can feel how lazy the turn in compare to more sharper front wheel drive.
    Of course if you're comparing it in track the Quattro will be much quicker as it has more grip, and you won't suffer from wheel tramp.

    I have golf mk5 gti golf mk5 r32 and golf 6 r. And I have dynod them all, and I can prove it to you that 4wd from the haldex have a negative effect on the power. Stock golf 6R is making 155-160kw at the wheel where scirocco R with the same engineis making 165-170kw stock. The same with stage 1 and 2 tuning.

    By the way I don't own a3 anymore as I have trade it in with s3 sedan and day to day drive I don't really feel significant different.
     
    SJ43 likes this.
  28. windyzz

    windyzz New Member

    24
    20
    3
    You must be a hater hey? What's wrong with you. This is my perspective of the two cars. I have an s3 now ang my point is still valid. Quattro with fwd bias is stupid. I bought s3 because it looks sexy and good value for money. If I want pure fun and handling you will not go far from BMW rwd m235 or simply m2

    And to add up on top you bought the wrong car. You should have gotten an s3 for a little extra. I bought an s3 for 10% more then the 1.8t Quattro. Which probably will smash it in track and back road or straight in pieces.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
    SJ43 likes this.
  29. windyzz

    windyzz New Member

    24
    20
    3


    That video of A3 0-200 in 28.7 second for the FWD. proof to be faster than your 30.2 sec in the Quattro


    And and any mk7 GTI will eat your car on the track hahahaha loser even if it only have FWD
     
    SJ43 likes this.
  30. Salik Sajid

    Salik Sajid Active Member

    172
    48
    28
    i have A3 1.8 tfsi fwd sedan and it does 0-200kph in 22sec as i have JB1 piggyback with few bolt-ons, stock A3 1.8tfsi does 27-28sec.
     

Share This Page