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Purchase confusion, please help

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by Hightower, Oct 7, 2009.

  1. Hightower
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    Hightower Member

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    [Oct 7, 2009]
    I was going to buy a 2nd hand A3 2.0tdi quattro earlier in the year but after the other half moaning about me not spending 8-9K on a car and wanting a 5 door over a 3 door i plumped for a Golf 1.9tdi 130 on a 52 plate but to be honest i'm really not enjoying the driving experience with the Golf.

    Don't get me wrong its a nice car but it suffers from extreme poor traction in the wet which isn't helped by the brickwall flat spot in 2nd gear where there is nothing then suddenly full on power, doesn't seem to matter how slowly i press the loud pedal, sometimes the traction control works, sometimes it doesnt, the light seems to be on continuosly in the wet in the first 3 gears, even today i saw it flashing away while doing 60ish in 4th.

    So i'm going to get rid of it and replace with either an A3 or A4 with quattro but this is where the confusion really starts as i like the 48 average mpg i have acheived in 4k miles with the Golf but i know i can only get close to that if i go for either a 1.9 or 2.0 tdi on the A3/4 but would also like some extra power to deal with the TD BMW's round here so my mind has strayed towards the 180bhp 2.5tdi A4 as i see you can chip them to 210+bhp but i also see average mpg is down to 35 but i also fancy the 3.2 V6 A3 but that only does 25mpg and the S3 due to its tuneablilty but again only 30ish to the gallon (my old tuned 1.8T passat only did 27mpg on a good day).

    So my question really is is the A4 2.5tdi 180 chipped as good a car performance wise (due to extra size/weight) as a chipped 1.9tdi A3, is it worth the drop in mpg for the A4 or should i say sod it and go for an S3? is the haldex part itme quattro system on the A3 ok or would the fulltime A4 quattro system be better?

    I probably did the wrong thing and worked out the extra costs in fuel/road tax/insurance to run the S3 compared to 1.9tdi over 5 years and on the miles i do it would work out an extra £1,000 a year to run, over 5 years thats £5k :uhm:

    Sorry for the long post

    TIA
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2009
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  3. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 7, 2009]
    I can answer from a 'chipped' 2.5TDi owners perspective, the car goes very well - but then I have never driven a 1.9 to compare. I know they can remapped to 170 ish relatively easy. I love my quattro drive and wouldn't give it up easily, there was a thread a few weeks ago about the differences between the two, try a search for that. From memory the quattro drivetrain doesn't add much weight, possibly 100-200 kg's?

    Unless you were very careful you wouldn't ever see over 40mpg from a 2.5, I believe the 1.9's are good for virtually 50, hopefully someone with a remapped 1.9 with be able to report back on what they get.

    A 1.9 quattro might suit you? Traction is always going to be an issue for the remapped diesel's due to their high levels of torque. The quattro is unbelievable for jumping into a gap which is barely there in traffic, and on roundabouts etc, I would think any remapped diesel with fwd only is going to struggle with this.
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  4. BILKO1
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    BILKO1 Member

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    [Oct 7, 2009]
    I was only getting 28mpg round town out of my 1.9 quattro standard:( i've had a fast road remap and now get 32mpg not brilliant but it is four wheel drive. I had a front wheel drive 110 with an ebay tuning box and that would get 45mpg round town and 55mpg on a run but was useless in the wet.
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  5. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    [Oct 8, 2009]
    no idea where to start....

    Quatrro vs Haldex: the A3 (and even the S3/TT) is essentially FWD with the rear only coming is as per Haldex setup... but for a grand or so, this can be tweaked out to mimic the proper A4-style Quattro.... but then you'll get a similar mpg impact to having a the full Quattro...

    The 1.8T is going to be the same as your Passat, but will lower MPG in Quattro guise due to drivetrain resistance/losses.

    The 2.5TDI Quattro is nice, smooth and bags of torque, but is only good for 40mpg at a 70mpg cruise.... general consensus is that they avergage around 35mpg with a mix of town/m'way and some spirited driving... percentage-wise, the 1.9TDI is a MUCH more tunable engine... there's a few people getting 180-190bhp on little more than a remap (around 170bhp for most on any avg remap) and that'll give you proper Quattro and a lighter car than the 2.5TDI, so much more chuckable and also better for economy... bear in mind that you'll need a higher spec clutch if you gonna push the car hard at 180+bhp... by comparison, the 2.5TDI han only be remapped to around 210bhp before you start losing a LOT of economy... and even in standard map it's going to be around 35mpg...

    Drive a few cars to get a feel: a lot of people don't like the feel of the permanent Quattro drivetrain or the extra weight of the V6 TDI, while others don't like the sound and feel of the 1.9TDI - the Quattro does feel a little "stiff" sometimes, but only at low speed tight cornering and now that i've had it, it's not something I'd part with in a TDI (especially if you're looking to tune and remap it) as even the 1.9TDI will have too much torque for 2 wheels on anythign but a perfectly dry road....

    Make sure you get the proper "sport" spec though as I think the rear limited slip diff is only on the those, not the S and SE spec... and it sounds like your the sort that "courts" traction problems ;)

    Not sure how BILKO is driving his, but i'm pretty sure that most of the 1.9TDI drivers get 40-50mpg on a "fast-road" remapped car, but i'm sure some more people can comment on that....
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
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  6. Nutkin
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    Nutkin Member

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    [Oct 8, 2009]
    qattro all the way, i went from the 1.9 leon to the A4 quattro (allbeit a 1.8T) and i love the quattro so much more, Leon had the same problem with the traction control flashing all the time, and i think ive seen it once on the A4 when taking it ken block style round a rounderbout in the wet.

    But i will say one thing, get a powerflex dog bone mount and fix that to the bottom, its not a hard job and my garage did it for 40 quid including parts.

    that makes a hell of a difference.
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  7. Hightower
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    Hightower Member

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    [Oct 8, 2009]
    Hi Guys,

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Is the extra umph from a chipped 2.5 worth the loss in mpg over a chipped 1.9? or does the weight saving negate any differences, it would be interesting to know as there are much more 1.9's in my price range.

    I never knew the traction would be so bad on the fwd 1.9 and to think i was going to get it chipped during the summer :ohmy:
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  8. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    [Oct 8, 2009]
    just my opinion, but I think you lose a lot of the off-the line benefit of the V6 given the extra weight, but once you're off the line and going the accelleration in the V6 is relentless especially in the higher gears... I've got very limited experience of the Quattro 1.9TDI's, only FWD, but when it's dry and you have traction, the FWD 1.9TDI does feel more perky off the line...

    It is a really tough call once you look a how economical the PD-style 1.9TDI is over the VP-style 2.5TDI I think it does sway it in favour of the 1.9TDI unless you really want/need the extra grunt and are willing to pay for it...

    I'm very, very happy with my V6 TDI and everytime I have any doubts as to wether I should have got the 1.9TDI, I give a friend a lift who has the 1.9TDI Quattro and make sure I bury the right foot a few times from 30-40MPH and his comments always re-assure me I made the right choice :)

    Don't feel bad for being indecisive: even I've got the fence post very firmly wedged up my @#53 and I've actually got the 2.5TDI.... I think it was the right choice for me as I do mostly relatively short blasts in the local area and then long, relatively sedate hauls with lots of passengers... if I did serious mileage (15k+), I think I'd be kicking myself, but at <9k miles per year, I think the extra fuel costs are well worth it...
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  9. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 8, 2009]
    Your best bet is to drive one of each and see what YOU think as it's you who will be driving it. I appreciate it might be hard to drive a re-mapped 1.9, but even a normal one will give you a fair idea.

    From what I've seen the 2.5's certainly don't fetch any more than the 1.9's as the 1.9 is generally seen as more desirable to all but the die hard enthusiast :cool:
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  10. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    [Oct 9, 2009]
    I'd tend to agree with James on the prices: there are a few reason's for the average 2.5TDI QS's tending to be higher than average 1.9TDI's...

    The 2.5TDI's tend to be higher spec'd due to what was provided as standard and also the profile of the original buyers (more likely to tick the "I want it all" boxes) compared to those on the 1.9TDI's.

    Also - there are a lot of 1.9TDI's with starship mileage on them that are pulling down the 2nd hand value on a lot of the others...

    Similar spec'd and similar milaeage/wear 1.9TDI's and 2.5TDI's are pretty much the same price normally: the 2.5TDI's have more oomph, but the 1.9TDI's are more desirable for their economy.
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