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Project Shed - Big Refresh!

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by aragorn, Sep 21, 2013.

  1. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    So most of you know project shed. I bought it with a broken engine and some accident damage a couple of years ago, and fixed it up mechanically, ignored the panel damage and got it on the road as a cheap but decent daily driver. Its a bit rough around the edges to look at, but a few niggles have been growing over the last year and its now getting to the point that it needs some money spent on it to keep the mechanical bits in good order.

    To summarise the main issues that need attention:
    The front control arms are worn out as is common with these cars at this age.
    One of the front CV joints is clicking, its boot split last year, and though i fixed it, i guess too much crud has made it into the joint and worn it out over the last year.
    Some wheel bearings are noisey, i suspect a rear one, not really sure though, i've not looked too closely and will probably just replace them all.

    I also bought an S4 box last year for it, as mines a bit notchy and whines, but its sat in the shed since then due to a lack of time and junk weather. Usefully the box came with shafts, so swapping that in will cure my clicky CV.

    So various parts being interlinked, i've made a concious effort to get all the bits sorted and will, at some point very soon be doing some work, which looks roughly like this:

    Remove engine, box, prop, rear diff, subframe, uprights, control arms, driveshafts, brakes.
    Attach new box to engine, slot in on replacement subframe, fit prop, fit rear diff, fit driveshafts.
    Fit new arms, with new uprights, new bearings, new brakes and control arms.

    It'll also need some rear end attention soon too, but its not as critical so that might well wait until after winter.

    At the moment i'm sorting some preliminary work. The gearbox has an oil cooler loop, so i've been modifying that to run without the cooler so i dont have the hassle of trying to add the cooler. I also want to fit new seals to the input shaft, as well as the rear diff, so the oil stays inside. The driveshafts for the box also need some new CV gaiters, so i'll need to get those ordered up. The uprights also needed the pinch bolts removing, and i still need to remove the old bearings and fit the new ones so its all ready to go.

    I dont have any pics yet (i did have some of the uprights and some bits i'd done to the gearbox, but i've just realised i've gone and wiped them off my phone!) but i'll take some as i'm doing the preliminary stuff and document the process!

    Hopefully once the job itself gets started i can get thru it all in a long weekend, as i'd rather not be without the car for too long!!
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  2. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    My old box whined and was notchy in 1/2 gears swapped the box and the notchiness went and the whine did but after 30miles or so the whine has come back so i put it down to the 1Z flywheel setup as it chatters on idle !!
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  3. Sulli79
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    Sulli79 Active Member

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    I have been wondering about 6 speed boxes, how do you reckon the drive will be on the S4 box?
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  4. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Cant you fit a B6 1.8TQS box ???
    #4
  5. Sulli79
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    Sulli79 Active Member

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    Heard there not as strong as the 01E.
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  6. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Almost impossible to find. Don't you thinj I've looked. .. lol ;-)
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  7. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    The B6 1.8T uses a 01E the same as the S4, but it has a weird final drive ratio which doesnt exist on the B5 platform. You'd have to strip the box and change the final drive to one of the common B5 ratios, which just becomes prohibitively expensive.

    S4 ratios arent that bad, they're a bit longer than stock TQS ratios, but not by much, and its still shorter than a FWD 5 speed box. RS4 box would be even better, but those are rare and expensive.

    I dont get any chatter from my 1z flywheel, the 012 box is designed to be used with SMF's, it was standard fit to Audi 80's etc when DMF's didnt exist. I suspect i'll get some chatter once i change to the 01E though, because its not designed for use with SMF's!

    I've got a chart of the gearing, i'll post it up so you can see the differences.
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  8. Sulli79
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    Sulli79 Active Member

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    Cool, is the six out of a 2.5tdi an option or is the gearing well off?
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  9. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    Can't wait for photos :jester:
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  10. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    6th is already plenty long enough tbh.

    Heres road speed at 6800rpm on the stock TQS box, vs the S4 box, and the 1.8T FWD box:

    [TABLE="width: 500"]
    [TR]
    [TD]TQS (DWR)[/TD]
    [TD]S4[/TD]
    [TD]1.8T FWD[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]34.386[/TD]
    [TD]35.121[/TD]
    [TD]39.013
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]59.701[/TD]
    [TD]65.073[/TD]
    [TD]64.469[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]90.909[/TD]
    [TD]99.856[/TD]
    [TD]105.034[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]126.247[/TD]
    [TD]127.118[/TD]
    [TD]132.696[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]155.022[/TD]
    [TD]152.510[/TD]
    [TD]162.941[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]179.712[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    I think its actually quite nice. I find 2nd in the TQS too short, the S4 makes it a little longer so hopefully a bit more useful, thirds also longer, but not as long as 3rd in the FWD box (which i've found to be too long). 4th and 5th are similar to whats there, then 6th gives you an additional gear for cruising.

    A graph of the gearing here is:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/j3qvvzrhki9y7ll/Audi Transmissions.ods.png
    #10
  11. Sulli79
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    Sulli79 Active Member

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    That does look good, yeah I know what you mean about 2nd.
    #11
  12. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    So did some work today on the box and diff.

    Started with finishing up the oil pump delete on the gearbox:

    pump is located here, between the mount and drive flange. I broke it last week trying to remove it!
    [​IMG]

    Used a renault sump plug to block up the return line:
    [​IMG]

    Got hold of another pump and stripped it down, removing the gears and things:[​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Then refitted the empty pump casing, with another renault sump plug to block the hole:
    [​IMG]

    The input shaft had gone a bit rusty:
    [​IMG]

    So i cleaned it up with WD40 and scotchbrite, and lightly greased it:
    [​IMG]

    Box is now ready to go, though i've noticed i'm missing the heatshield that goes over the driveshaft, not sure if its knocking around or if it wasnt fitted to the box when i got it. I'll change the oil when i fit it just so i know its all nice and fresh.

    Started on the rear diff, i removed the torque tube from my spare 1.8T diff, and plan to swap it with the S4 one as the S4 one was leaking a lot of oil. 1.8T part also looks slightly oily, but nowhere near as bad:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Interestingly, the shaft on the S4 torque tube was really loose and floppy compared to the 1.8T one, i imagine the seal has failed due to the bearing inside failing. I'm waiting on a seal from Audi so i can refit the torque tube, and once its refitted i will replace the drive flange seals too and give the diff an oil change.
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  13. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    I then cracked out my bottle of pourable polyurethane and decided to give it a go filling the gearbox mounts.

    Got a 500g pack of A85 shore stuff from ebay. This was enough to do the four subframe bushes, two gearbox mounts, and the rear diff mount:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Not sure if the Diff mount will be OTT, it seems VERY solid now, but i think bradderz's is the same and works fine.


    Changed my injector seals this morning on the offchance it would fix my bad-turbo-noise, it hasnt. But when under the bonnet i noticed my coolant reservoir was empty, and the lower section of the front panel had a nice pool of coolant on it, so i can only imagine my radiator has started leaking. I guess i'll need to replace that when i've got it all apart too! :(
    #13
  14. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    i masked off aroundthe rubber over hangand filled it up to the square alloy insertand it covers the four rubber bits thart are poking up on each side !!

    some good progress there !!
    #14
  15. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Ah, so you didnt fill the gap completely like i have? :O

    I probably need to start again then lol.
    #15
  16. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Yeah mines completely filled and the 10mm gap at the bottom is exactly like yours but the top is like this

    [​IMG]
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  17. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    ah right. Yeh i just hadnt quite mixed up enough to fill it right up to the rubber stoppers!

    I hope it'll be fine in that case. I'm a bit wary of making things mega stiff, did it in the wifes car and the results arent that nice tbh.
    #17
  18. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Mines got track 034 gearbox mounts and theres quite abit of vibration through the body !!

    id say your diff mount will be fine the way it is !!

    ive got enough left to do one mount so may save it and do the rear subframe bushes when it comes to removing the subframe will have to let us no what yours turns out like !!

    also dont no if you missed it in a previous thread but i asked if you could PM me a list of the bits needed for ME7.5 conversion ?
    #18
  19. jbh
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    jbh TDi lover

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    good work there. any pictures of the car?

    I must admit when I saw the title " project shed " I thought.. someone has started a thread on my car
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  20. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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  21. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Cheers mate
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  22. jbh
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    jbh TDi lover

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  23. creechy
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    creechy New Member

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    Would there be a way of converting an S4 gearbox to just FWD. Just thinking out loud really but the ratios and the extra gear would be more than welcome on the motorway.
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  24. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Sorta, but you'd be better off getting a B6 FWD box and using that i guess.
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  25. jbh
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    jbh TDi lover

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    do you think I could do this with an AFN lump? I would like to have a 6th gear for better MPG on long runs
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  26. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    For a derv, use a B5 V6 TDI FWD box.

    Your unlikely to see much of an economy improvement though.
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  27. jbh
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    jbh TDi lover

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    I don't think its something I would rush out and do but if I ever have any problems with the box I would consider a 6 speed conversion.
    but then Ive got a low mileage 5 speed box sitting in the garage...
    #27
  28. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    That turbo noise you mention, I've given up trying to find. Had all tension eras checked cambelt replaced as was too tight. Yet no improvement on noise. Not got worse though so just ignoring lol.
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  29. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    I've been running with the N75 unplugged as i dont want to risk it.

    I'll have a really good look over the engine bay when i have it out and see if i can find a cause.

    I think my wastegate penny is rattling too so maybe that'll fall off before the turbo actually expires :lmfao:
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  30. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    If turbo goes pop so be it lol. But mechanic says engine is sound so I'll just wait n see what you find ;-) mechanic said it's just an old turbo and vw's are known for it. :think:
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  31. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    yeh, i want to get this work out the way first though. cant really afford a turbo after shelling out what i have so far, so its in damage limitation mode until my funds recover a bit.

    Ordered CV boots and got some Gearbox oil today. Also ordered a new radiator and coolant reservoir from ebay and some o-rings and the plastic elbow on the back of the head from the dealer which will hopefully cure my coolant leaks. Will collect those bits at the end of the week, and hopefully i can finish up the preperation work this coming weekend.

    I need to pick up some Engine oil and a filter, and i think i have everything i need to get on with the job.
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  32. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    Looking forward to seeing shed finished.
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  33. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    So i started this morning, 9am.

    by 11am it was looking like this:

    [​IMG]

    Front suspension dismantled, driveshafts and propshaft disconnected.

    I stopped at 1 for some lunch, and its currently looking like this:

    [​IMG]

    Engine and box all disconnected, mounts all undone, just ready to get the crane in and pull the engine/box out.

    Hopefully by the end of the day i'll have the subframe swapped over and the engine and new box sat back in on its mounts at the least.

    I've found some "oops" bits during my dismantling too, the PAS supply pipe to the pump was just pushed onto the barb, with no jubilee clip and one of the gearbox mount heatsheilds was literally hanging on by two threads. These must've been like that since i fixed the engine 2 years ago!! More care required during reassembly!
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  34. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Nice work, about time you showed her some love...:yes:
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  35. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    So after lunch i got the engine hoisted out:

    [​IMG]

    Once removed, i split the engine and box, and moved the old box out the way. Then dropped the subframe out, and hauled that out the way too:

    [​IMG]

    New subframe went in, then i dropped the sump off the engine. When i built it i used a TDI windage tray with integrated rubber seal, but it was leaking, and as i discovered when i put it together, the TDI windage tray spaces the sump away from the block and messes up the block stiffening bolt alignment. So i removed the TDI part, and refitted the plastic standard one with silicone stuff to seal the sump and got it bolted back on:

    [​IMG]

    Borrowed the missus to move some stuff around, drag the old subframe away and get the new box out ready to go. Cut the exhaust and removed that ready for the next part, and then spent some time getting the engine and box mated up. Somewhat tricky as always but with some tweaking, wiggling, shaking and prodding it eventually went together. I torqued all the bolts up, fitted the gearlinkage, and fitted the downpipe and cat. Swapped driveshaft heatshield over from the old box and it was ready to go in. It was also rapidly getting dark!

    I had to get the engine and box back in, as the cars sat on the driveway and i didnt want to leave the engine sitting out, and no way to get it into the garage on my own, so i pressed on, and got it craned into place and engine mounts installed. Quick tidy up and finally sat down for a rest at 7:45pm!

    [​IMG]

    Feel completely fkd, so hopefully i'll recover by tomorrow so i can press on, and not wake up completely crippled! Time for some food!
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  36. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    Wow! Wouldn't have thought possible to do all that on the drive!
    #36
  37. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    A drive is just like a garage with no roof :p

    It means your constrained by the weather though. This morning its all rainy-ming. Forecast suggests its just a shower and should stop mid-morning, so i'll get the driveshafts rebuilt in the shed and hopefully by the time thats done the rain will have buggered off and i can crack on with things.

    Things still to do:

    Finish dropping gearbox onto its mounts, and sort gear linkage.
    Plumb and wire engine in, and reassemble the engine bay/front end. Also got to replace some gaskets and seals on the engine to try and fix the various coolant leaks.
    Rebuild front suspension with new parts, fit new brakes, bleed brakes and clutch.
    Remove propshaft and rear diff.
    Install replacement propshaft and rear diff.
    Refit exhaust.
    Check oil levels on gearbox, diff, engine, then see if it all works.
    #37
  38. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    Did you find anything odd with the turbo? I'm wondering if mine is more exhaust related?
    #38
  39. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Nothing obvious no. Lots of weird white deposits all round the inside of the turbine housing and cat though which was a bit odd. I did find the turbo to DP flange wasnt done up very tightly, but there were no obvious signs of blowing. I think i'll pressure test it once i get it all back together and see if anything shows up.

    My turbo also has a few cracks in the turbine housing itself, so its entirely possible one of them is leaking under exhaust back pressure.
    #39
  40. Iceash
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    Iceash Member

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    Wow! That could make sense. Think the cracks could fail soon or be there for a very long time? Silly Question i know but had to ask lol
    #40

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