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Problems with Revo

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by RSAudi, Jul 24, 2003.

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  1. RSAudi
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    RSAudi Member

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    [Jul 24, 2003]
    I have seen a few vague references to problems that people may have had with Revo tunes. Any firm details or evidence (threads etc.)? as I intend to go down this route when my local tuning shop opens up after their hols in a couple of weeks.

    BTW thanks for all the help you lot. I have only had my A3 for a month and the advice from the forum has been really useful.
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  3. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Jul 24, 2003]
    I have heard mutterings about Revo problems but am yet to see/hear any firm evidence about a failure being directly related to the Revo software.

    When you consider the vast population of cars now tuned by Revo then it is not surprising that you will hear the odd complaint, but generally all I hear is good.

    Revo wouldn't be my choice, but it's just a personal thing about who you decide to have your tuning done by.
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  4. danh
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    danh New Member

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    [Jul 24, 2003]
    I had the five hour trial a while back and the only problems I had were an occasional blip in power which basically was more pronounced than what I had experienced (and tried to ignore) with the stock mode. I still haven't booked it in to have that fixed.

    Other than that, the OEM brakes were not up to the job - but REVO can't be blamed for that!

    I will definately be getting mine done at some point, I was waiting to see how the APR serial port tune compared to REVO and if prices settled down first.
    #3
  5. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Jul 24, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Danny Boy said:
    I had the five hour trial a while back and the only problems I had were an occasional blip in power which basically was more pronounced than what I had experienced (and tried to ignore) with the stock mode. I still haven't booked it in to have that fixed.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think this is the most common problem of all, but its hard to say whether its the re-map or the car itself. From what I've read on here, seatcupra.net and other sites, the blip in power or hesitation is widely experienced. But as I say, it could be the cars not the re-map.

    For example my car (completely standard) used to have an hesitation problem, but this disappeared when I had my coilpacks changed from H's to L's. I'm not saying that will be the solution to all VAG cars though.

    AL
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  6. Mo-S3
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    Mo-S3 Member

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    [Jul 24, 2003]
    Ive had the REVO software with the SPS3 on my car for over 6 months and have no problems at all except a collapsing intake hose which was replaced by the dealer.
    There is a lot of hearsay around about Revo blowing up engines but nothing has been proven. Bring the evidence if anyone has any.
    Apart from that its briliant and im very happy with it.
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  7. munkey
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    munkey Member

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    [Jul 24, 2003]
    MO-S3

    what is the Revo power delivery like?, I was thinking of getting chip from Jabba but am not sure how different this is from Revo. The standard map is ok, there is lots of 2-4k oomph but then it seems to tail off up to the limiter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

    Any info appreciated, but i suppose I could get the demo and give ia a try!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dancing.gif

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
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  8. RSAudi
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    RSAudi Member

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    [Jul 24, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Danny Boy said:
    I had the five hour trial a while back and the only problems I had were an occasional blip in power which basically was more pronounced than what I had experienced


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Could you tell me more about this 'blip' in power?

    I too tried the 5 hour free trial and was blown away by the torque and pull above 4000rpm.
    I came to this car from a 200bhp 2.0 turbocharged car (much heavier and larger) from another manufacturer and find the lack of power above 4000rpm on the A3 quite astounding!
    My old car pulled harder and harder from about 2500 to rev limiter at 6750; A3 pulls really well until 4000 and then just flattens off. Revo trial gave me this revvy fun once again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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  9. DaveCav
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    [Jul 24, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    MO-S3 said:
    Ive had the REVO software with the SPS3 on my car for over 6 months and have no problems at all except a collapsing intake hose which was replaced by the dealer.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    What did you say to the dealer Mo ?? I think mine is doing the same thing? Did you put your S3 back to stock mode before taking audi out in it?#

    Thanks Dave
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  10. RSAudi
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    RSAudi Member

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    [Jul 24, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    munkey said:
    MO-S3

    what is the Revo power delivery like?, ppose I could get the demo and give ia a try!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My 5-hour trial gave loads more torque from 2000rpm onwards and a huge kick in the back everytime I changed gear above 4000rpm. Soooo fast /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dancing.gif

    Don't try the trial until you have the cash to buy it, 'cause you will /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif
    #9
  11. audi_girl
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    audi_girl Active Member

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    [Jul 24, 2003]
    Most chips will give you a very similar feeling - if not better dependent on the bhp/torque gains achieved.

    Consider all tuners, and consider everything; not just the performance gains, but post-sales service, reputation etc.

    And remember APR do a very similar method of serial port tuning but are more established than Revo.
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  12. Mo-S3
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    Mo-S3 Member

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    [Jul 24, 2003]
    Power delivery is very smooth, as usual just wait till u are at the right revs for the turbo to spool up and away u go. Nice constant delivery of power throughout the rev range all the way up to the red line. U dont get the feeling at anywhere in the rom band that the power delivery has stopped and u need to change gear to get the next bit. If u know what i mean.
    Try the SPS3 dongle and dial in high boost with a slightly more advanced timing setting and it blow u away even after having the standard low boost settings on ur car ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif

    Dave, i just told the dealer that the hose is collapsing at about 5000rpm and can u change it for the latst revision. They know its chipped and love it. Thats the good thing about having a good friendly dealer on your side. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
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  13. danh
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    danh New Member

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    [Jul 25, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Rob_A3 said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Danny Boy said:
    I had the five hour trial a while back and the only problems I had were an occasional blip in power which basically was more pronounced than what I had experienced


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Could you tell me more about this 'blip' in power?

    I too tried the 5 hour free trial and was blown away by the torque and pull above 4000rpm.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Totally agree. Revo gives you so much more torque which is fantastic. Before I had the trial I had noticed once or twice when accelerating hard a blip when I lose all power which lasts for a fraction of a second and then it's back on the power - almost like a misfire. As I said, I'd ignored it, but with Revo it's more pronounced because you are accelerating even faster. Have had it a few times since so I think it's a problem with the car NOT Revo - probably coil pack, DV or something similar.
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  14. Crafty
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    [Jul 26, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    munkey said:
    MO-S3

    what is the Revo power delivery like?, I was thinking of getting chip from Jabba but am not sure how different this is from Revo.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    The advantage with Jabba is its a bespoke remap, they can make it drive how YOU want it to, from experiences of other people you will be asked when you take the car there.. for a snatch over 400 it sounds good...
    #13
  15. audi_girl
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    audi_girl Active Member

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    [Jul 27, 2003]
    Yes - the Revo is an "off the shelf" package - not tailored to every car. The tuners which offer a before & after RR can spot any problems with the car before applying the chip, and tailor the remap for the car.

    For example - a friend of mine had his TT remapped at AmD recently, and they spotted a MAF problem - something he hadn't noticed before.
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  16. RSAudi
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    RSAudi Member

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    [Jul 27, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    audi girl said:
    Yes - the Revo is an "off the shelf" package - not tailored to every car. The tuners which offer a before & after RR can spot any problems with the car before applying the chip, and tailor the remap for the car.

    For example - a friend of mine had his TT remapped at AmD recently, and they spotted a MAF problem - something he hadn't noticed before.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My REVO trial came from Stealth racing. They run a before and after rolling road with REVO for £499 when one goes for the full package which I suspect will mean the deal is the same as for Jabba etc.. Don't know if the map is 'customised' at this stage though.
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  17. audi_girl
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    audi_girl Active Member

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    [Jul 27, 2003]
    Not sure if they can customise the map, as because Stealth don't write the code themselves, they can't alter it... unless Revo have given them the tools to do so?
    #16
  18. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 27, 2003]
    No they wont be abe to change he code... RR is purely for befoer and after figures i woul say.

    Rich
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  19. doolan
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    doolan New Member

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    [Jul 27, 2003]
    I haven't read so much bo****ks in all my life!

    Excuse me but I'm fuming /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif, had the Revo 5 hr trial and my car certainly felt a little quicker, BUT after it timed out my car was a bag of *****, didn't run right, poor fuel economy, not impressed, so living near Jabbasport I thought I'd pop along, after close inspection it appears my so called standard code I've reverted back to is in fact the same modified code the revo dealer had uploaded, all that had changed was a torque limit imposed on it!
    So apparently I'm running the wrong fuelling, timing and boost maps, not so undetectable and certainly not what I'd expect, thankfully the guys at JabbaSport put my car back to how it should have been, considering going back to the revo dealer but looking at the problems APR are having not sure why I now considered revo, not impressed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif
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  20. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 27, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    doolan said:
    I haven't read so much bo***cks in all my life!
    Excuse me but I'm fuming /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif, had the Revo 5 hr trial and my car certainly felt a little quicker, BUT after it timed out my car was a bag of *****, didn't run right, poor fuel economy, not impressed, so living near Jabbasport I thought I'd pop along, after close inspection it appears my so called standard code I've reverted back to is in fact the same modified code the revo dealer had uploaded, all that had changed was a torque limit imposed on it!
    So apparently I'm running the wrong fuelling, timing and boost maps, not so undetectable and certainly not what I'd expect, thankfully the guys at JabbaSport put my car back to how it should have been, considering going back to the revo dealer but looking at the problems APR are having not sure why I now considered revo, not impressed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]
    That really sux!! So it doesnt actually revertt back to standard??? How low is that!

    Rich
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  21. BerkshireFlipper
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    [Jul 27, 2003]
    Doolan - can i ask where you got your trial done as i felt mine was a touch lacking after it timed out. Just wondering if i've got the same problem
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  22. RizS3
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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    Might be a silly question but did you let the ECU re-learn before concluding that something was wrong? what fuel were you using also as maybe this can effect the performance if its different from what the trial was set at? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif
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  23. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Riz S3 said:
    Might be a silly question but did you let the ECU re-learn before concluding that something was wrong? what fuel were you using also as maybe this can effect the performance if its different from what the trial was set at? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I see what your saying, but is Jabba have analyzed his "standard" map and found it not to be standard...


    Rich
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  24. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    doolan said:
    I haven't read so much bo***cks in all my life!
    Excuse me but I'm fuming /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif, had the Revo 5 hr trial and my car certainly felt a little quicker, BUT after it timed out my car was a bag of *****, didn't run right, poor fuel economy, not impressed, so living near Jabbasport I thought I'd pop along, after close inspection it appears my so called standard code I've reverted back to is in fact the same modified code the revo dealer had uploaded, all that had changed was a torque limit imposed on it!
    So apparently I'm running the wrong fuelling, timing and boost maps, not so undetectable and certainly not what I'd expect, thankfully the guys at JabbaSport put my car back to how it should have been, considering going back to the revo dealer but looking at the problems APR are having not sure why I now considered revo, not impressed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I feel for you, but I think your opening line is well out of order! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif The people posting were basing their posts, me included, on what they've heard and yours is the first geniune complaint I have heard, So it's not bol***ks it's exactly as it is, YOU just had a bad experience which will be reflected if people ask the same question in the future about REVO problems.
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  25. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    Post deleted by audi girl
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  26. audi_girl
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    audi_girl Active Member

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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    Give us information but don't shout at each other..

    Doolan - you obviously feels strongly about what seems to have happened to your car, but moderate the language please /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Gambba - I am sure he didn't mean your comment specifially, perhaps more of a general comment..
    #25
  27. Banwell
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    Banwell previously LeeS3

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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    I've heard a similiar story to Dolan, but again this was from another specialist tuner, who's serial remap would give exact before map when switched back. The tuner had said it's a problem they've had to sort out a lot on cars that have previously undergone a trial.

    But then again this is only the word of one tuner against another. Albeit one who's opinion I rate.
    #26
  28. lost_it
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    lost_it Member

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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    It wasn't the ESP cutting power ? (which it does to avoid wheelspin)

    #27
  29. lost_it
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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Danny Boy said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Rob_A3 said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Danny Boy said:
    I had the five hour trial a while back and the only problems I had were an occasional blip in power which basically was more pronounced than what I had experienced


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Could you tell me more about this 'blip' in power?

    I too tried the 5 hour free trial and was blown away by the torque and pull above 4000rpm.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Totally agree. Revo gives you so much more torque which is fantastic. Before I had the trial I had noticed once or twice when accelerating hard a blip when I lose all power which lasts for a fraction of a second and then it's back on the power - almost like a misfire. As I said, I'd ignored it, but with Revo it's more pronounced because you are accelerating even faster. Have had it a few times since so I think it's a problem with the car NOT Revo - probably coil pack, DV or something similar.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry Should have been more precise....This is what I was questioning.

    Another comment

    I dont know much about this stuff, but if you load a erasable eeprom with new software and then have some sort of timer. Unless you have incorporated a bootstrap loader how do you load back the old SW.

    The only other way is to load the map into spare memory and then load some SW that points at the new Map, then points back at the old when the time has expired,.

    If this is what happens then your adapations would need to re adapt´ this along with the lower power would tend to make it feel like it was running like c**p when in fact it was probably close to standard.

    I dont ever trust dealers opinion of other dealers, unless thay can show me hard facts, I have been in the SW/service industry for too long : /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
    #28
  30. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    lost_it said:
    It wasn't the ESP cutting power ? (which it does to avoid wheelspin)



    [/ QUOTE ]

    The ESP wouldnt change the map tho..
    #29
  31. RSAudi
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    RSAudi Member

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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    doolan said:
    I haven't read so much bol***ks in all my life!
    Excuse me but I'm fuming /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif, had the Revo 5 hr trial and my car certainly felt a little quicker, BUT after it timed out my car was a bag of *****, didn't run right, poor fuel economy, not impressed, so living near Jabbasport I thought I'd pop along, after close inspection it appears my so called standard code I've reverted back to is in fact the same modified code the revo dealer had uploaded, all that had changed was a torque limit imposed on it!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Doolan

    I suspected that the revo code may still be in there as deleting code after a timeout period is difficult - I know as I have programmed microcontrollers and microprocessors for over 20 years.
    There is plenty of room in EEPROM for two programs as SPS dongles allow switching - revo and standard.
    Possibly doohan's trial ended badly due to software not reverting to the standard map at the end but stayed on 'crippled' revo. I suspect that the revo code sabotages itself to prevent anyone from attempting to hack it and get a free revo tune after 5 hours. This is certainly what I would do if I were the author of the revo code.

    You were told that "all that had changed was a torque limit imposed on it". This confuses me considerably as to the best of my knowledge there is no measurement of torque from the engine (measuring dynamic torque is very difficult) and the torque is derived from power and angular velocity of the engine. If one cannot measure it, how does one limit it????
    Chippers change maps for various parameters but none of them are torque limit which is a function of fueling/boost/engine speed etc..
    Did JabbaSport offer to install their tuning package to help sort out the problem?
    Personaly, I would not trust one tuners word over anothers, especially when they are slagging them off.


    To balance the debate slightly I include my own experience of revo - I tried it because it was offered to me when I had cruise control fitted by Stealth racing. Car ran very well and VERY fast with loads of torque. At the end of 5 hours, the car ran as standard - felt much slower at first which is just down to the difference between what I had for 5 hours and what Audi give me. I did a couple of 0-60's and got exactly the same time as before the revo which set my mind at rest.

    I do not understand the strong feelings a lot of people (excepting Doolan who has reason) appear to have against software only remaps. There is no need to change chips on a board (doing so may effect reliability due to bad soldering etc.) to remap/tune the engine as it is ALL just a software map.
    At work, we do this all the time on our test bed engines. No additional hardware neccesary.

    Finally, doohan stated that his car ran a 'a little quicker' with trial software in. I suspect that his problems may stem from a corrupted upload (leading to the poor post 5-hour performance) when the dealer installed the software as my car was VERY much faster, this may also explain the lack of revision to original code too.
    #30
  32. halegavin
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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    Good post Rob... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
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  33. Moresauce
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    Moresauce Member

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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    Guys n Gals please can you watch you language in posts! These forums are public! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
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  34. Mo-S3
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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    Post deleted by audi girl
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  35. tonyrmay
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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    I'm having the five hour trial installed today. I'll keep you posted.

    Tony
    #34
  36. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Rob_A3 said:
    There is no need to change chips on a board (doing so may effect reliability due to bad soldering etc.) to remap/tune the engine as it is ALL just a software map.
    At work, we do this all the time on our test bed engines. No additional hardware neccesary.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Agree with everything you said Rob, and especially with the extract that I quote above.....this is due to one of the other service engineers here (MCFE) deciding that he would save some pennies (Dutch style!), and buy a chip and firtsly try and install it himself on a spare ECU, which went completely tits up, then taking it to a TV repair shop and getting them to do it, which still managed to damage it somehow. So €250 for the chip, €100 for the ECU from a scrap yard and the damged ECU from his TDi Caddy, which all would of been saved for the price of fuel and €60 euro's if he had got the chip supplier to install it!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif

    His Caddy is still off of the road 1 week later, he's desperately trying to source an ECU from a scrappy.
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

    Moresauce, you are quite correct...sorry....I was just quoting his words and should know better /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif
    #35
  37. audi_girl
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    audi_girl Active Member

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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    I don't think anybody is questioning s/w-only remaps as a principle (personally I don't have a problem with s/w remaps at all)... what seems to have happened here is that the trial remap seems to have affected the running of the vehicle after the 5 hours had expired.

    Mistake or intentional? Who can say. The cynics may say that this is an attempt to make the car feel rough to persuade the driver that they *need* the remap.... the non-cynics (I am sure there is a word for that!) may say that it is a corrupted reload of the stock s/w or initial corrupted upload etc.

    If the latter.... personally I would be wary of something which corrupted... in the same way I am very wary of Windows as it keeps corrupting my desktop. However, big difference between creating my icons again, and my car! If it corrupted during this process (or during the upload etc.), what else could be incorrectly coded?

    I am not an electronics or programming whiz at all, but as a layman this is just my opinion.

    I guess we have to wait for Doolan to post any evidence he has about this issue !
    #36
  38. RSAudi
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    RSAudi Member

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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Moresauce said:
    Guys n Gals please can you watch you language in posts! These forums are public! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry Moresauce - should have edited the quote /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush2.gif
    #37
  39. RSAudi
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    RSAudi Member

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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    Audi girl, off topic I know but may I ask who Jo & Kitty
    are? cats?
    #38
  40. audi_girl
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    audi_girl Active Member

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    [Jul 28, 2003]
    Jo = Me, Kitty = my car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    Don't ask - Kitty was a more useable version of Pussy Galore, but it suits her !!!!

    And I've never named a car before, before you have images of some fussy librarian type !!
    #39
  41. bjacks
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    bjacks Member

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    [Jul 29, 2003]
    I'm running REVO code in my S3 with no problems at all.
    If my car didn't run properly after they'd played with it then I'd be straight back to them, not to another company.
    I agree that that doolans case is not at all good and I'd like to hear what the real issue was (incorrect program etc) and how it was solved. I guess we'll never know as Jabba "put" the car back to standard (I didn't think they do serial tuning?).
    As mentioned before, lets not turn this into a slagging off post and try and keep it constructive chaps.

    Cheers

    Ben
    #40
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