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Pro Alloy Intercooler for S3

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by tobycruse, May 19, 2009.

  1. tobycruse
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    tobycruse Member

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    I have just dropped my car off at AmD Essex for them to take it to Pro Alloy Ltd in Suffolk.

    There it is being used as a development car for the research and construction of a bespoke larger inter-cooler for the S3.

    You can see their work here: http://www.proalloy.co.uk/

    The car should be there for a week or two, only just got it back from Audi!

    Spoke to the guy in charge Wayne, very helpful and knowledgeable.

    Will keep the development posted here, pictures and info!

    I think after this I can finally stop for a bit!
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  2. S3 Big Andy
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    S3 Big Andy Stealth Beast Baby Yay

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    Will be interesting me thinks!!
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  3. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator

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    You lucky guy!! What gains are they expecting?
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  4. mhill
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    mhill Member

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    There not too far from me if they are in need of another test mule for a KS03 variant
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  5. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    Very nice....not unlike Pace Products in terms of range and ability.

    It should be able to keep your inlet temperatures down for longer at higher boost levels.....my last fast car was a GpN Escort Cosworth with an intercooler about the size of some of these products,and also with water injection triggered by the inlet temperature rising above a set level,and to be honest,in road settings with a huge intercooler,even running 2.5bar boost,the injection system virtually never came on.

    It would be great to hear how you get on.
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  6. tobycruse
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    tobycruse Member

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    I was talking to Wayne, apparently the ideal intake temp on the inlet manifold is 40c and lower. He is going to see the space he has to use and what he can do, talking to me the entire time to ask what he can and cant cut off!

    I'm very excited to see what comes of this development, hopefully it will produce an inter cooler that all S3's can use....
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  7. hatmeow
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    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

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    Does anyone know what the gains are (lowered temp) when compared to a forge FMIC twintercooler?
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  8. Fast,not furious
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    Fast,not furious Dealing with an OCD

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    Sounds good Toby,you're really going for it aren't you!

    Keep us posted,it'll be an interesting one....
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  9. tobycruse
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    tobycruse Member

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    Without going bigger turbo I have always wanted the most out of the K04 2.0T engine. Once I reach this limit I will know when to stop!
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  10. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    Good stuff keep us posted
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  11. tobycruse
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    tobycruse Member

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    Will only know this when they have finished the development. Wayne did say that the forge twintercooler is a bad design as you still have the restrictions of the OEM intercooler. One bigger intercooler will produce more effective results. So watch this space!
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  12. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    I have to say that whilst the Twintercooler is quite a clever idea it's still basically an engineering kludge,using a piggy-backed secondary intercooler where a better solution would be a single,properly designed large intercooler.

    The thing that toby's helping to develop sounds like a proper solution to raised inlet temperatures.

    If it comes to production,I'd be very interested,as I don't really want to be looking at big turbo conversions,but would like to get the most out of the current one.
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  13. Forge
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    Forge Member

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    I can assure you that we conducted a thorough design and test proceedure when developing the twintercooler soloution , we didnt just " cludge " it together , whilst testing tube and fin designs and also bar and plate , the stock VAG IC takes some improving on , we test various solotions and found the Twintercooler the best way forward , these figures are for the Golf but are very very close to the S3
    we are not in the habit of making things that do not work
    http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/media/Forge_GolfV_twinic_v_stock.pdf
    http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/media/Forge_GTIV_twintercooler_v_stock_power.pdf
    http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/media/Forge_GTIV_twintercooler_v_stock_torque.pdf

    This set up works , there are no restrictions , we supply this to many leading tuners , and 3 S3 Nurenburg race cars in Germany using the Forge S3 custom and Twintercooler set up..
    #13
  14. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details

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    You got that right! I know this is off topic, but I had a Forge FMIC fitted to my cousin's Big Turbo 340bhp TT the other day and boy its made a hell of a difference, power remains stronger, engine bay ALOT LOT cooler, superb bit of kit!

    Wondered why you didn't use Forge Toby, but good luck and keep us posted!
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  15. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator

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    Nurenburg? Where is that?
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  16. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    I don't recall my post saying your product didn't work,and I would hope not as I'm considering adding one of your intake systems to my car.

    What I did say was that it's not as "elegant" or straightforward an engineering solution as a single larger intercooler,such as the one being developed by Proalloy.

    If you have similar graphs available for tuned and stock S3s it would be very helpful and interesting,as the figures you've given are for a car with power levels just about equivalent to a stock S3 as opposed to one with 30-40% more power.

    Just out of curiosity.....you have several other large single intercooler products for other cars,including the original RS500 intercooler....what made you choose the Twintercooler arrangement for the new S3?
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  17. dc240969
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    dc240969 Member

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    that makes alot of sense. l will be watching this development.
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  18. hatmeow
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    hatmeow Turbo is the only way....

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    Just curious... The S3 intercooler is about 30% more efficient than the GTI one... how is it "very very" close to the GTI graph? Originally I have the A3 2.0T IC with the plastic ends and have recently changed to the S3 intercooler. The difference is very obvious. Can you show us a graph comparing the stock S3 IC with / without the Forge FMIC?
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  19. tobycruse
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    tobycruse Member

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    Just spoken to Wayne, got some very interesting feedback.

    1) He noticed the inlet temps dropped when the A/C is switched on. This, he says, is because the OEM intercooler is not very efficient letting air pass through it, the fan helps push it through. Putting the A/C on should have the opposite effect.

    2) Wayne has managed to replace the OEM inter cooler with one that is 10% bigger in the same space. Also the cooler he is installing is much more efficient at air flow and air passing through the actual cooler. This will help cooling all round for all the radiators!

    He hopes to have it completed this Friday, but as i am in Devon i hope to be getting it Monday / Tuesday! Very excited to see the results!
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  20. Fast,not furious
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    Fast,not furious Dealing with an OCD

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    Sounds good Toby,looking forward to feedback and figures
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  21. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details

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    Indeed, well done Toby!
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  22. devonmikeyboy
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    devonmikeyboy As far from JBS as possible !

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    Where are you in Devon?
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