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Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Prawn, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    trumpets are for brake cooling yes mate, made a considerable difference on track!

    So, in other slightly more exciting news.....

    This was going to be kept quiet until it's fitted, tested, and working, but with the co-incidence of another thread being started on the same topic this week, we decided to make the plans known now.

    What could this be.....?

    [​IMG]

    It looks suspiciously like a KO4-064 turbo hanging off a 20vt head!

    Our favourite turbo creator Mr. BeachBuggy has been hard at work again, and together with some other help we will be installing the turbo onto my car and testing it in the very near future.

    No further details to share with you as of yet, other than to say that in true Beachbuggy style, this won't be a standard tfsi ko4, so the car will remain ko4 hybrid powered ;)

    Watch this space people :)
  2. wild willy
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    wild willy Member

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    That's excellent news Mr Prawn and certainly the way forward not least to rid ourselves of the pink elephant that is the K04 manifold and the circus it commands. Ever since I saw that K04 TFSI set up I knew it would be great to be fitted to the 1.8T but I always struggled to see how the adapter flange would fit and if the oil/water lines could be salvaged. Massive update and surely the way to 400 bhp.
  3. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    I love the way we rob the best parts of the TFSI range and utilise them on our 20v's... cranks for strokers and now turbo/manifold... they can keep the sill inlet manifold and direct injection nonsense though lol....

    <tuffty/>
  4. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    Next level hype with the K04 tfsi turbos then :)

    Will this be a bit pricey though? as you will have to buy a new K04 tfsi unit I'm gathering?

    Rather than use the standard 1.8t K04?

    Not 100% clued up on these...but it's great to know this is happening on a UK forum and on a well documented build thread as well :D
  5. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    Its been quite a mamoth task to even get it this far, it's quite ironic that the other thread popped when it did as it was the day the adapter plate I designed to make this work when to press so to speak..

    Unlike the other thread the whole issue of the brake MC came into play otherwise it would be a simple task, and also I am insistant on doing this so the turbo can remain bolt on, bolt off as the turbo is on the TFSI.

    Yes in part I did it as it seemed like a good idea, also I am developing the TFSI hybrids and finally I am pretty sick of relying on hit and mis manifolds to make the 1.8t K04 hybrids work. Other than making my own, which was going to cost £550 plus I thought I'd see if this is a viable option.

    Nick has very kindly agreed to lend his car to the cause, mainly as he already has a well proven K04 hybrid setup, we will then run a Stock K04 tfsi which has the same internals as nicks hybrid at present to see how it compares and therefore accurately see how much difference the blended manifold makes and then run my current TFSI hybrid, which is basically the TTRS turbo in the K04 but unlike the LOBA unit has to weld 2 turbos together to get the larger K16 turbine in due to its bigger journal, my custom made K16 turbines are a direct fit...

    powerwsie I am hoping for 360+ from the stock and 400+ from the hybrid..



    The adapter plate has taken alot of work to get right, but it does work, No modification to the head is need and it will be a direct bolt on adapter, but does require some shortened studs to be used.

    Oil and water lines really aren't an issue as the fittings on the tfsi are identical in size to the K04 1.8t so they just need modifying in length and orientation to fit.
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  6. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 14, 2013]

    Cost wise, its hard to say, but a tfsi k04 has a built in manifold and can be bought for £500 second it's actually not that bad, yes adapter plates etc need to be factored in but it's probably still cheaper than a Gt28 setup or similar
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  7. wild willy
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    wild willy Member

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    Absolutely superb, I dof my hat to you sir.:thumbsup:
  8. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    That's what I was after really :icon_thumright:

    Thanks for confirming that Dan....and I hope it all goes to plan :)

    RS3 power on a 1.8t using OEM parts+ an adapter....love it!
  9. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    He's a clever man, a shares me love for testing stuff ad trying new things :)

    I'm very happy Dan asked me to be involved in testing out something different :)
  10. wild willy
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    wild willy Member

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    Mr Buggy, I think we need another hybrid development thread where we can chew over the finer points without bogging Mr Prawns down as I suspect a lot of traffic coming in this direction.

    Is it wrong to get excited over another mans modification and developments cause if it is I don't want to be right.:yahoo:
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  11. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Clap.

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    Hahahah, I KNEW something immense was coming when we spoke last night.

    Hybrids out the window now; I want this!!!!!
  12. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    I soo want this. Glad ive not got around to touching my engine yet as I now want todo this :)..
  13. Neru
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    Neru Member

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    very impressive, hope to have one of those k04 hybrids on mine one day
  14. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    Any s3 fitment, mine is about to be torn apart again....:eyebrows:
  15. Paradox1
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    Paradox1 Active Member

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    this is crazy!

    they way we (VAG Owners) keep finding new ways to keep up with the latest cars even though we are a decade behind!

    Good stuff lads. New downpipe needed id imagine??
  16. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    S3 is identical bar the transfer box which we can still fit a 3" dp over.

    But its going to be easier to route the Fmic pipe work for sure so that's one less to think about.
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  17. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    Dan....get another one cracking then....:beerchug:
  18. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    Sod that - by the sounds of things this needs a GB! haha
  19. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    So what path would the intercooler pipework take?
  20. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    It's underneath the drivers side of the engine on the MK5/6's.
  21. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    The plan currently is to follow the TFSI charge pipe routing, the compressor outlet on the turbo points down and towards the drivers side wheel arch, like this:

    [​IMG]

    By using a TFSI charge pipe it'll bring the route past the sump and forward under the crank pulley.

    initially I was concerned that this would make my pipe run far too long (laggy!), but thinking about it, I don't think it'll end up much if any longer at all, as what you're adding by crossing the engine bay at low level, you're losing through not having to come right up and over the top of the engine then back down to the turbo.

    On an S3 though, the TFSI charge pipe would put the pipes in a perfect location to go into the IC on the drivers side and the cold side would remain unchanged.

    When I get round to making up my own inlet manifold this is probably how I'll route things.
    s3dave likes this.
  22. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    whats your planned charge pipe routing with this one?
  23. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    around the front of the sump as per TFSI Bill, then a short length across the front like the joining piece between OE twin coolers. Given the reduction in height change up and over the actual pipe route doesn't end much if any longer at all.
  24. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    Only just seen this and chuffed the way things are still continually moving forward with 1.8t tuning and Dans definately chose a solid car and good person to test it with

    The results will be wicked im sure :rock:
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  25. Gops
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    Gops 6th gear @7000rpm

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    Oh yeahhhhhhhh oh yeahhhhhhh! I can not wait for this!!! I've been dreaming about this so much, so much infact that I'm gonna buy a k04-64 now before it ends up going up in price due to demand!
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  26. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Jun 16, 2013]
    They're already pretty pricey. All I hear about here is TFSI stuff. Golf R and GTI's are common as muck here. They all bicker over tunes, with like 5kw difference. The stock K04 does make good power on the 2.0, there's an R in Sydney (guy I done a website for) that runs 11.7 and made 210kw at the wheels on one. The usual inlet, downpipe, fuel pump (bolt on) mods. Now you can start looking at all the inlets available, VWR etc ;)
  27. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 16, 2013]
    Screw that Sam! Have you seen how expensive they are? We'll make one :)

    I think everything is well planned out now, it's just a case of Dan aquiring a few more special parts and then we'll get together and start pulling the car apart and see what's what :)

    If people are seeing 380+ on a 2.0 from a stock turbo then I think that's very promising, if we could find a reliable way to get to ~360 bhp using an OE turbo with a manifold / turbine housing that'll last then I think it'll be a massive winner.

    Who knows, maybe a hybrid version could even top 400!
  28. A3-Lee
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    A3-Lee Active Member

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    [Jun 16, 2013]
    Your actually a legend nick your car is inspirational and to be honest the whole reason I joined ASN. I'm sure I read somewhere that this year you was spending as little as possible due to saving lol we all do it keep up the good work hope to meet you one day
  29. moredoor
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    moredoor Member

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    [Jun 16, 2013]
    Hands down this will be cheaper than a GT28, a GT2860RS costs £941 plus manifold and then oil/coolant lines.
    Sounds like a great idea cheaper and reliable. Not that you need more power Nick lol
  30. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 16, 2013]
    You're right, I don't need more power at all! I do love testing things though, and we all know the ko4-023 taken to 350bhp in hybrid form with relentless manifold has it's downsides and longevity concerns, so if we can find a way to produce a safe and reliable 350ish bhp, with more potentially available on tap for scaring people and pub talk, then I'm more than happy to help Dan out with his testing :)
  31. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 16, 2013]
    So, seeing as it's fathers day.....

    I think I ought to thank Dad for the very existence of this whole thread. The track car, and everything that has come since in this thread, wasn't actually my idea, it was Dads!

    It all started where all good motorsport stories should start, in a field.

    Fittingly, this field happened to be within earshot if the Nurburgring, where we were camped out in our little tent village, faced with the decision of which car to take on track, the Track prepared mini, or the daily driver A3 support car:

    [​IMG]

    Thankfully, we decided to take the A3 around the track, and after a consistent string of sub 9 minute laps in my daily driver, we started to think.....

    Then we drank some wine, because that's when Dad works best:

    [​IMG]

    Bob joined in, to help swing the decision:

    [​IMG]

    And a plan was formed! The old A3 would become a track car, for Dad and I to share.

    We finished our week in Nurburg, where I took dad to see all the sights, and meet all the people that had been so good to me on previous trips:

    [​IMG]

    Then we headed home, with BigAl driving the A3, and me in the Mini, full of ideas for how we were going to build this budget track car (hahahahahahahaha)

    [​IMG]

    What followed over the next 3 years, I don't think any of us really planned or expected, but what started out as slightly wine fuelled drunken idea for a pretty low key 'budget' bit of fun, has kind of turned into something rather more serious, but I'm incredibly happy to say that BigAl has been there, 100% involved in every single step along the way, and without him (and an incredibly understanding mum!) none of it would have ever happened in the first place.

    So, thanks Big Bad Dad, for being the driving force behind all this happening in the first place. You're pretty cool for an old git :racer:

    A few pics of just some of the cool stuff we've done together over the past 3 years:

    Testing out seating positions back in the first few days of the project in 2010:

    [​IMG]

    First track outing at Combe: L plates on for BigAl

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Hanging on for dear life with me driving:

    [​IMG]

    Beers with the lads in the Burgstube:

    [​IMG]

    Driving the Derronda

    [​IMG]

    Flying down into Wehrseifen at the Ring, on route to a 9:30 lap back in the ko3S days!

    [​IMG]


    Best Dad ted on the way to Germany:

    [​IMG]

    Serious driving face enjoying the roads around Adenau:

    [​IMG]

    Looking cool on the way to the track:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Tell tale red gloves on track at Goodwood:

    [​IMG]

    Are you looking at me? Passengering at Donnington:

    [​IMG]

    So yea, it's been a pretty crazy few years, a few ups and downs, but awesome fun, and long may it continue. Cheers Dad :beerchug:
  32. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Clap.

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    [Jun 16, 2013]
    I'm not going to lie; BBD is infinitely cooler than my own dad. My own dad is awesome, but as far as dads go BBD is pretty outstanding. I ****ing love him.

    Happy dads day big bad. Even though you're not my dad, you're still a radical dad.

    Nicely written fat boy, nice to show you showing some emotional capability once in a while.

    :beerchug:
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  33. Rich196
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    Rich196 Member

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    [Jun 16, 2013]
    Everyone should have a bbd in their life!! And they should all want track project. If Carlsberg did father son time they would be coming to your old man for tips!!
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  34. 666markyboy
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    666markyboy Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 17, 2013]
    Best post of the thread so far.... :)
  35. Golfyste
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    Golfyste New Member

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    [Jun 17, 2013]
    Wow! I seemed to have missed the reply email haha
    loving the development ideas and can see where I will e going with the golf in 6 months or so haha
    Love the dad post! Sounds like you have a awesome relationship!
  36. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 17, 2013]
    Thank you all for your nice comments. Jardo you are special. Nicholas you are awesome and what a crackling bunch of people this ASN club has thrown up. I don't go on any other threads apart from the occasional Northloop visit much preferring ASN.
    Mum also checks ASN at least twice a day to see the latest news, she loves it. Mum has to be one of the fastest Mums around the Ring at 8.20. It was a Mother and Son outing, I forget at the moment who was driving.:shrug:. She said it "was quite an experience". I think that is quite an understatement. As Nicholas said it has been a interesting journey after those wine fuelled decisions at Camp am Nurburg, and it hasn't finished yet. You can't really make a sensible decision without a minimum of two bottles of red, can you now.

    Aero has to be the next big move after the trials of the new Beachbuggy blower. I look forward to the future. Good luck to all of you.
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  37. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 17, 2013]
    I meant cracking. And yes, those are not the worst photo's but they come pretty close.
  38. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jun 17, 2013]
    [​IMG]
  39. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 17, 2013]
    they're not a bad bunch I guess :laugh:

    So, it's Monday. that means it's a new week. And as per the rules, new week = new mods!

    So, first up, I've always been used to having a really high up shifter in the mini:

    [​IMG]

    And despite loving the billet shifter in the A3, I've always wanted it higher up.

    So, a friend of mine, Steve, is very handy with a lathe, and offered to make a extension piece for me, this is what he came up with:

    [​IMG]


    And fitted to the car:

    [​IMG]

    it's put the gear lever in a perfect position now, right up high next to the steering wheel. I've been meaning to redo the linkages for a little while, replacing the cheap ball joint fittings with proper rose joints, so today i ordered these:

    [​IMG]

    So instead of ball joints, it'll have some really solid bolted up rose joints instead, which will eliminate the tiny fraction of play that's developed over the last 5000 miles, I'll also take the opportunity whilst it's apart to re-drill the anchorage points on the levers at the box end to reduce the throw back down to where I want it. it was fine before, but with the extension it's just a fraction too long.

    I had the extension made in exactly the same diameter as the existing shaft too, so i can just fit a longer piece of bike brake cable to lift the reverse collar up the stick to it's natural place, to make selecting reverse nice and easy still.

    and one last bit.

    Dad + holiday + wine + ebay =

    [​IMG]

    haha, more wheels. 17x8 Rota Force shod with Yoko Parada spec 2 tyres. not the best tyres in the world, but fine for summer road use, and they're plenty legal so keeps us rolling for a fair while :)

    [​IMG]
  40. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 17, 2013]
    OH NO, not the wheel fairy AGAIN

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