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Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Prawn, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jan 21, 2012]
    What size piping, 63mm?
  2. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jan 21, 2012]
    yea man, all 63mm pipework compared to 50mm previously, X-sec area increase is a whopping 58%! so it should flowe miles more than before.

    Very happy with how teh cooler has gone in so far, although I'm a little worried about trimming the bumper to get it to fit back on! I think the core is going to be fairly visable when I'm finished. it's ultra tight in there!
  3. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 21, 2012]
    Looking good mate will be an animal when finished, still gotta come for a passenger ride at some point ;)
  4. rich4130
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    rich4130 Member

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    Very nice!!
  5. A3AH
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    A3AH Member

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    prawn what sort of lap times have you seen at what sort of ballpark bhp/weight figure?

    intirgued more than anything.
    (slightly off top my apologys)
  6. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    Is there more room behind an a3 bumper compared to an s3 bumper, hard to tell. A3 doesn't have fogs in the way tho does it.
  7. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    From all the FMIC installs I've seen pics of it looks like there's less room behind the A3 bumper then the S3 bumper.
  8. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    It's weird, looks like your cooler sits about 1" lower than mine, looking at the pics. Obviously the s3 grills sit higher
  9. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    MILES less room behind the A3 bumper Karl, this thing is stupidly tight in there, and the entire back face of the bumper is now gone!

    Jimbo: Cooler height wasn't final in these pics, I've moved it twice today, first up, then realised it was too high and dropped it back down a bit, it's not sitting 1'' higher than it is in the above pics.

    Had a good day today though, gearbox is back in and finished, newer style driveshafts on, Badger 5 80mm TIP is on, with my 70mm MAF for now and an 80mm Jetex filter, battery tray back in, k04 oil drain done, gearbox oil filled, intercooler rehung at a better height, pipework test fitted again (very happy with this!) and bumper trimmed so it goes on over the Wellycooler.

    Just needs filling up with oil, and the downpipe fitting and it's ready to start at long last!

    Pics to come once I've showered!
  10. R-Tech-Nick
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    R-Tech-Nick Active Member

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    Nick
    I got your email, just not had time to reply to them, I got a back log of 105 email over the last 11 day.. I will bell you tomorrow dude.

    Nick
  11. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    so prawn, whats the plan after its built up mate?
    run on actuator pressure with your stock maf and injectors in or something before you go for mapping?


    and when exactly is D-day? (mapping day)

    lets hope it all goes smoothly. after reading loooooaaads of hybrid threads these things are never simple! (i still want one tho :eyebrows:)
  12. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    Excellent! Cheers Nick, I know you're flat out busy, Rob said you had a massive back log! Also had forgotten you were on here, and certainly didn't expect to see a reply in my build thread from you, so that's a nice surprise on a sunday evening!

    That's the plan for the next few weeks Karl yea, being an AGU it fuels entirely from the maf/load, and the stock fuelling is capable of 230-235bhp, so the hybrid on actuator pressure only should be fine, not that I'll be loading it up a lot at all, I just want to get a few heat cycles through it to make sure everything stays tight and works as it should before having it mapped.

    I'll let you know when it's being mapped after I speak to Nick tomorrow!

    Having read every other hybrid thread on the internet, i THINK I've got it covered, it's been really handy to draw on all the problems other people have had, so I can work around them and hopefully not suffer the same fate!

    The only one that seems to have worked 100% with massive results is Wellys, and mine is almost identical in every single way to his build, even down to the size of the IC pipework.
  13. Paradox1
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    Paradox1 Active Member

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    this is going to be crazy once done!test drive please.that intercooler looks huge compared to the old one.let me know when your workload has eased up a bit so I can come to your for the fmic install.
  14. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    so, today work, didn't get too many pics, but worth posting up anyway I guess:

    First job for today, was to change the pressure plate. The clutch plate was only 2k old having gone in in July (3rd one this year!) so I didn't change that, but to be sure the clutch held up to the increased power, I fitted a 40% uprated Excedy vr6 pressure plate:

    [​IMG]

    then the horrible black box went in, it doesn't look great, but anything's better than white!

    [​IMG]

    a little over an hour later and the engine was hung on it's mounts once again:

    [​IMG]

    I went to fit by badger5 80mm TIP, and came across a problem I'd not seen before, with the 5spd gearbox, the bottom of the TIP fouls the gear linkage bracket and deforms the TIP when it's all bolted up. For now I've left it on, but I've got a spare bracket in the garage that I'll modify one night this week to lower the cables as I'm not happy with how it sits currently.

    As a temporary measure, I'm running my 70mm MAF. Being an 80mm TIP, I needed to make up the 10mm difference.

    The reducers from my old IC setup came in very handy for this indeed!

    [​IMG]

    5mm wall thickness takes up the 10mm gap perfectly, so they're all nice and snug:

    [​IMG]

    Looks like some sort of reducer in the inlet to meet class regs:

    [​IMG]

    Finally getting an idea of how the bay is going to look when it's finished:

    [​IMG]

    No more pics after this, I spent ages finalising the wellycooler position, and trimming the bumper to fit over it, by which time it was dark!
  15. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    After speaking to Nick at R-tech last night, I'm getting very excited about having this mapped now! if all goes to plan, it should be running again tomorrow evening, and hopefully I'll be taking it to R-tech for mapping next weekend and leaving it with them for however long Nick needs it.

    Ordered the Gizzmo EBC from Driftworks this morning, and will be fitting the downpipe, DV, and final remaining plumbing and hopefully firing it up tomorrow!

    Can't wait!!
  16. Sandra
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    Sandra MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    Good luck. You must be well excited.
  17. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    Like you could not believe!

    I've had the turbo and manifold almost 6 months now, and it's about 8 months since I paid Dane for it and the idea was first acted upon! To say I've done a lot of research before starting out would be an understatement!

    I've had st2 ko3S power (~220bhp) for 3 years as of next week, so I think it's time to finally move onto something with a bit more poke!
  18. Sandra
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    Sandra MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    I have thoroughly enjoyed your build thread, plus what i have heard from Westy, i hope everything goes smoothly and you get to enjoy. Cant wait for the update.
  19. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    Prawn, it's great to see you making so much progress.

    It's especially nice to see something that looks and feels altogether very familiar to me take shape. Reminds me of the trials and tribulations I had, but ultimately the satisfaction of producing very good power from something that people said wouldn't do what it did.

    Makes me really glad to see that all that time I buggered about fitting different manifolds and messing with various bits and bobs on my hybrid has been built in somewhere else. Makes me feel like that was all time well spent.

    I really hope the rest of the build works out well for you - and I hope that you get the end result you want. I can't see why you won't.
  20. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    Thanks Welly, I'm glad you like it! Your thread is the inspiration behind the whole thing. One drive in Bumble late 2010 and I knew what I wanted! it's just taken bloody ages to get this far!

    From what I've seen, on here at least, yours was by far the most successful hybrid setup to date, I don't think I've seen anyone else make similar power to yours, yet looking at the other builds, they're all been similar in many ways, but each lacking a different part that's what goes to make yours the complete package.

    Some with manifolds but small port heads, some with large port heads but **** manifolds, almost all on lower S3 compression ratios, some with loads of good kit, but small intercoolers with small piping, every time, there seems to have been one bit that's in some way sub standard.

    So, with that in mind, what I've done is copy just about everything from your thread! Even down to the size of the IC pipes being bigger, with your old manifold, turbo, injectors, and everything else identical in spec, I see no reason why mine shouldn't have the same 340bhp potential that yours reached.

    If I get 280-300, on reliable low boost, I'll be over the moon, then when it does get rods, I'll let her rip!

    What DV spring did you use in your setup dude?
  21. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    I went with Yellow mate (Naturally). I used it then and still do now.

    It does depend though on what sort of boost you plan to run normal running level I guess....
  22. Barks
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    Barks Member

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    Haven't you got a clipped turbine now?
  23. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    I do indeed, that's the only difference in the turbo compared to when Welly ran it.

    Although, from when Bill had the turbo running on Danes car, it didn't appear to have made any difference to the spool up at all (not noticably anyway), and I'm fairly sure the ko3 hybrid+ on the lupo also has a 7 degree clip, and when it's boost plot is overlaid onto Wellys they're very similar also, so I'm not expecting the clip to effect things really.

    Yours went fairly well didn't it Barks? I don't seem to remember hearing you having the same problems others have?
  24. Barks
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    Barks Member

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    It would to be great to see Wellys sort of power, but since then it doesnt seem that any thing has come close, so it will be very interesting to see how yours goes with the same kit..... very interesting.

    Yeah it goes well, but we are sure it can go better, its flowing 260-270gs (and the 0.8 rule seems to be pretty smack on for k04's) but its not making the power for the airflow.

    So the thinking is we must a inefficiency/choking somewhere post engine...... the suspect is the franken manifold, so I have the new Welly manifold in the garage waiting to be fitted.... proof will be in the pudding (or Bills Dyno)

    Time will tell..... as with yours...
  25. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    epic airflow there! didn't it make low 300's I seem to recall? The manifold was the big change on Wellys that took the power right up.

    Of all the other hybrids I've seen, I'm yet to see another one with the XS manifold, and I truly believe that it's the key to big power.

    Welly made 300bhp on a ported ko4 stock manifold after his 034 cracked, then, without any other map changes, the XS manifold netted 344bhp! I think they changed the map again after, and settled at 338bhp to keep it more reliable, but 44bhp increase is EPIC for just fitting a manifold and not altering anything else! I reckon that's what's been missing from all other builds.
  26. Barks
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    Barks Member

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    Yeah low 300's if the manifold is the key... and everything points to it,if it is we are all going to be very happy boys, very happy

    also there looks to be a little be more to be squeezed out of the K04 hybrids across the rev range with the V2 Badger tip, might be time for an upgrade

    Fingers cross prawn, fingers crossed
  27. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    sounds good! I've got the V2 TIP and XS manifold and downpipe, so hopefully I'm all lined up for some good results!

    Going to run the ebc in open loop mode so it has a target boost and variable DC, after speaking to a few people, it seems that when run on fixed DC they have a tendancy to drop boost off at higher revs, which I don't want at all.
  28. Barks
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    Barks Member

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    Should work well then!

    Have you a large port inlet manifold aswel......

    Which EBC you planning on running
  29. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    Yup, being an AGU I've got a large port head, large port inlet manifold, and slightly higher compression ratio of 9.5:1 instead of 9:1 on the S3 engines....

    I've just ordered a gizzmo MS-IBC, I've run one in the past and it was brilliant, and all the mounting holes are already in the car for it!

    It's got 6 boost presets, and can run in open or closed loop control (fixed duty cycle or variable to meet target boost), as well as a scramble function that's operated by a remote button.

    For example, if the car makes 280bhp at 16psi, and 250bhp at 13psi (example figures), I could set the scramble button to add 3psi for 10 seconds when pressed, so I could drive the car around in 250bhp mode usually, then if I need to overtake something in a hurry, a quick press of the button after a gear change and I'd have a 280bhp burst to complete the overtake, and it'd just drop itself back down to 250 afterwards.

    Could be particularly usefull on tight twisty tracks with say one straight, where 280bhp would be too much for most of the track, then hit the scramble on the one long straight to blast down it before returning to a more manageable power on the tighter bits.

    I intend to have about 3 presets setup on the EBC I think, one for actuator pressure only, so hopefully around 230bhp, one on 13-14psi, hopefully 250-260bhp, and one for max boost, somewhere around 16-18psi I'm hoping, that should see 280-300bhp.

    Speaking to Nick last night, he's said he can map it so that the N75 controls things up to about 80% throttle opening, so it should remain smooth and driveable on part throttle, then clamp the N75 DC at 10% for the last 2 or 3 throttle set points, so at that point the EBC takes over and controls everything on WOT.
  30. R-Tech-Nick
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    R-Tech-Nick Active Member

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    Speaking to Nick last night, he's said he can map it so that the N75 controls things up to about 80% throttle opening, so it should remain smooth and driveable on part throttle, then clamp the N75 DC at 10% for the last 2 or 3 throttle set points, so at that point the EBC takes over and controls everything on WOT.

    100% N75 Duty not 10% :salute:
  31. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jan 24, 2012]
    haha, typo! sorry Nick.

    I'm fairly sure I understand it, N75 controls up to a point, then goes to 100% DC so effectively lets the turbo run flat out to the redline, and the ebc caps it, so the N75 isn't interfering and causing boost to drop off at the top end?

    My controller can run variable duty too, so boost dropping off shouldn't be an issue. I hope!
  32. Barks
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    Barks Member

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    [Jan 25, 2012]
    Sounds good to me, look forward to the results,

    Could you used a RPM mappable electronic boost controller to retain the part throttle driveability instead of mapping?
  33. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 25, 2012]
    Its not RPM thats the problem, its throttle angle.

    For instance at say 50% throttle the ECU might only want 5psi, and uses the N75 to dial that in. Without that throttle input, your EBC would just see RPM's, and dial in full boost. This makes part throttle drivability not particularly nice, nor smooth as the turbos constantly trying to ramp up megaboost that you dont want.

    I guess high end EBC's out there probably do have throttle input, but they're probably mega money!
  34. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 25, 2012]
    Running an EBC in parallel should still give N75 precidence over part throttle boost control... certainly does when using an MBC... the EBC won't kick in until close to or at target boost...

    If using EBC alone then yeah you will sacrifice any form of part throttle control but there are EBC's that will take throttle into account as well as speed and gears such as the Apexi AVCr

    <tuffty/>
  35. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 25, 2012]
    tuffty: i was responding to barks asking why the EBC alone couldnt be used to do the part throttle stuff.

    As you say if your prepared to spend out on a top notch one it will do it.
  36. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 25, 2012]
    With yah... I just clicked on the latest post link and all I saw was your post :)

    So yeah, in context (teach me not to speed read while at work lol... and you not to quote of course :p)....

    That said I am not sure how the Apexi behaves on the road as I have only ever fitted them to customer cars... (FWD ones at that and using gear limiting features)... I did run Bills for a few days on my car but that was more to see if I could gain control over higher boost (WOT) conditions than drivability at the time so can't really comment...

    <tuffty/>
  37. sportstractor
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    sportstractor Chugger

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    [Jan 25, 2012]
    Talk to us prawn, has she fired up okay?
  38. Barks
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    Barks Member

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    [Jan 25, 2012]
    Ah I see..... ish
  39. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jan 25, 2012]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
  40. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [Jan 25, 2012]
    Its a boy :) haha.

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