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Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Prawn, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 8, 2011]
    I was chatting to a guy with a BAM engined MK2 golf at Beford on saturday. He'd had a lot of drive shaft issues too!
  2. mk1chopper
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    mk1chopper Missing the S3

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    [Nov 8, 2011]
    What were you doing in Bedford?
  3. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 8, 2011]
  4. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 8, 2011]
    It's just been pointed out to my by Jardo that this post might sound a little rude! it wasn't ment to be at all. so I'm sorry if it came across like that.

    I just got a bit annoyed on SCN. I posted a really sensible argument using scientific reason for why an untriangulated brace on a non load bearing wheel arch (a strut brace for a car with no struts!) would offer no gains.

    All i got was shot down by people saying I shouldn't knock it until I've tried stiffening my car, and that it made a huge difference and I didn't know what I was talking about.

    I posted a pic of my cage, and funnily enough, nobody else came back at me about that one!

    So yea, sorry if I came across as rude! I'm just grumpy sometimes :)
  5. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 8, 2011]
    Dont worry about it Nick a lot of the guys on SCN think they are running 300+ bhp from their K04 and a remap!
  6. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Clap.

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    [Nov 8, 2011]
    Well done Prawn, I have never been more proud. x
  7. ReDBull
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    ReDBull Member

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    [Nov 9, 2011]
    I don't think you were being rude.
    Everyone respected what you said on SCN but you know how people are with there much loved mods. I ordered one of the strut braces and I'm regretting it now. Is there any worth while rear strut braces or do would I need to get a custom one made?
    I love this build thread and can belive how much work you've done in such a short space of time. Nice work fella.
  8. ReDBull
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    ReDBull Member

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    [Nov 9, 2011]
    I'm running 350bhp and I've not been mapped yet! ;-).
  9. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Clap.

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    [Nov 9, 2011]
    As Prawn said really there are no "struts" to brace. Something to triangalate (sp?) the rear towers/wheel arches would provide some stiffness and would probably have to be custom made.

    I suggest stripping and getting a young sex pest like Andy P to build you a cage :p
  10. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 9, 2011]
    Stiffening doesnt HAVE to be triangulated...

    If you weld a single steel tube horizontally across between the pillars you absolutely will have stiffened the shell. In the same way as when you open a door the shell will typically flex more. You need to remember that the entire shell flexes, not just one area immediately beside a suspension pickup point.

    Most modern cars have a box steel construct running across behind the dashboard bolted or welded to the A pillars for this exact reason.

    Sure, properly triangulated bracing will be better, and a full cage will be better still.

    Most "clubman" cages are only tied into the floor at two points, usually the foot of the A pillar then at some point behind the driver, then onto the rear arches, and these will stiffen the shell even though none of the pickups are anywhere near anything particularly structural. More advanced cages will end up gusseted into the pillars, and have tubes extended thru to meet suspension and subframe pickups where feasible and obviously these will provide a further increase in rigidity.

    That said, i've not seen the braces being discussed, and i certainly remember back in my vauxhall days folk used to fit braces across the rear top mounts for the shock absorbers, but attached the brace to the actual damper rod. Meaning the brace was in effect rubber mounted and completely useless. If thats whats being done here then sure, they're pointless!
  11. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 9, 2011]
    What a legend! is that why your gearbox blew up?

    People on SCN claim that they can feel a difference with the rear brace fitted, i don't see it myself, as there's nothing there to brace, but by all means give it a try.

    In terms of chassis stiffening though, apart from a full cage, I can't see what else can be done to tighten it up, the cage only works so well because its fixed in so many places to the shell. Even when it was a 6 point cage with just the mounts at floor level it stiffened it up, but you could still notice flex by feeling the gaps around the cage and body change whilst cornering. Tying the cage into the A and B pillars really helped to make it all 100% stiff.
  12. ReDBull
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    ReDBull Member

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    [Nov 9, 2011]
    I hope I'm allowed to post this link.
    Rear Strut Brace - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum
    This is where it was discussed. It's an old thread that I resurrected as I wanted to buy one.
  13. ReDBull
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    ReDBull Member

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    [Nov 9, 2011]
    Ha ha If only! I bet the woman that I left for dead at the lights had a good laugh when she drove past my stricken car at the side of the road. I'm hoping it's just the selector fork rivet that's gone. At least it gives me an excuse for the LSD to be fitted. Still undecided on the clutch and single mass flywheel though?
    Are your Brembos from an LCR? Have you thought about fitting two piece bells and rotors and saving some more un sprung weight? That's my plan when sorting the breaks out at some point next year.
    It's nice being on a forum where you can buy and sell things!
  14. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 9, 2011]
    At least its actually bolted in place.

    This is the bar OMP sells for the rear of a corsa:

    [​IMG]

    And if you look closely, you'll see its sitting ON TOP of the rubber isolation bushes for the rear dampers, and the crazy owner in that pic has attached his bloody harnesses to it as well!
  15. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 9, 2011]
    Oh dear god!
  16. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 9, 2011]
    ye they're LCR brembos, Bills 2 piece AP setup would be nice, but at £500 odd for a set of discs they'll have to wait a while yet! the braking power currently is insane anyway, with the low weight and race pads, it stops miles better than a stock LCR.

    It wasn't long ago that SCN had a thriving FS section, but a few ****ers stealing money put an end to that.
  17. moredoor
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    moredoor Member

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    [Nov 9, 2011]
  18. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 10, 2011]
    that's the mk2 octavia I think, doesn't look like a mk1 to me. no idea what the mk5 platform suspension is like!

    I'm not a fan of the braces people are using, and I still think iany improvement is a placebo, but I'm done with arguing about it.

    my roll cage is stiffer than any brace will be, and that has made a huge difference. it's amazing how direct and sharp the track car feels compared to the daily.

    Roll on Hullavington trackday 2 weeks tomorrow!
  19. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 12, 2011]
    Finally heading back down to portsmouth to get my locking wheel nut key from Andy today, so I can finally change the brake pads!

    This is what you want to see on the box for pads:

    [​IMG]
  20. Paradox1
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    Paradox1 Active Member

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    [Nov 12, 2011]
    Wow, you don't stop do you?

    Was looking at getting so if those when changing my dialslate year.let me how they go

    You got pm
  21. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 12, 2011]
    I will be able to stop when I've got new brake pads in! haha.

    Will read your PM in a mo :)
  22. Paradox1
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    Paradox1 Active Member

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    [Nov 12, 2011]
    Lol like your car doesn't stop well enough already.

    This bloody auto correct is doing my head in.my bad
  23. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 12, 2011]
    It did, but the DS3000's wore out already! Hence the need for mew pads
  24. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Clap.

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    [Nov 12, 2011]
    Pokemon, gotta catch em' all!!!!!

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
    lippyrich likes this.
  25. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 12, 2011]
    Very well picked up J! Haha. I like it

    Mintex 1177's are on, and so far, stopping power is VERY Good. 20-25 HARD stops from 80-20 had smoke pouring out, s d they didnt fade once, Definitely on par with the 3000's, and this set were half the price! Shame they're not made any more, or I'd buy more!
  26. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 12, 2011]
    The 3000's were a bit worn!

    [​IMG]

    1177's fitted today, gone through a very harsh bedding in process and they're brilliant. Very happy indeed for the money! Shame there won't be more!
  27. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 13, 2011]
    Pads nicely bedded in, and I had a great drive home today, I've got a tiny bit of judder, but that's probably linked to my cleaning up the discs with a flap disc, or remaining deposits from the DS3000's, I'm sure it'll go with a few more miles on them.

    Stopping power is awesome though, so very happy on that front. Must look into upgrading the rears now, as I don't think they're doing enough work at the moment.

    Stopped for a few pics near home, I think it looks so right with the Rotas on now, almost be a shame to take them off to fit some more normal road wheels! I think I'll spray the SuperT's bronze too when I get them, as it suits the car nicely.

    My previously red brembos have certainly got pretty hot during the harsh bedding in, they've gone brown!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Should be getting a toyosports FMIC core too before christmas, so I think lots of cutting will be in order to get that to fit behind the A3 bumper, as well as probably a row of 50mm holes in the bumper above the number plate to aid air flow to the massive core. I'd like to cut holes behind the number plate too and remove it for trackdays to aid flow, but I don't fancy having no crash bar at all, incase the worse happens.

    [​IMG]
  28. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 13, 2011]
    Something a bit like this, if you can visualise it!

    [​IMG]
  29. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Clap.

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    [Nov 13, 2011]
    You have been hanging around Andy P too long...

    [​IMG]
  30. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Nov 13, 2011]
    i personally dont see the crash bar offering much protection.

    i like the holes in the bumper idea. another one of those touches, like the cage, that let people know its a serious track car

    or perhaps just do it behind the number plate so its easily covered up
  31. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 13, 2011]
    I know what you mean Karl, I'm just concious at the moment that in a very gentle nudge, or parking incident, the crash bar will stop my FMIC getting pierced. In an actual crash I don't think it'd do that much though.

    no point fitting the massive toyosports core if I can't get enough air flow to it!

    J-rod, I have indeed been spending too long with andy, today I fitted this to his volvo:

    [​IMG]

    Whilst he did this:

    [​IMG]
  32. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Clap.

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    [Nov 13, 2011]
    That spoiler looks EPIC!

    How is that man such a dude...
  33. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 14, 2011]
    He isn't, he's just trying to copy Robs Evo seen in the background! haha.
  34. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Nov 14, 2011]
    Ever thought of putting the same holes in the rear bumper? Apparently acts a bit like a parachute as normal so the holes prevent that. So i`ve heard people mention anyway. How much truth or realistic benefit there is i dont know fully. Sometimes looks quite nice though lol.
  35. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 14, 2011]
    Nick are there any other options to get more air to the core? I'm not a fan of holes in the bumper, it's different for a "track car" but I couldn't do it to my car as I wouldn't like to drive it like that every day.

    I've not seen the need for any additional airflow to my Toyo cooler and the inlet mani is always icy cold after a run. Will you be looking to fit WMI at any point in the future? If you do, you wont need to hack your bumper up as it will do the cooling for you.
  36. Andy P
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    Andy P umop ap!sdn

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    [Nov 14, 2011]
    This is true. I'm the f**king tits!

    :p
  37. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 14, 2011]
    Such a modest man :lmfao:
  38. Andy P
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    Andy P umop ap!sdn

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    [Nov 14, 2011]
    Nick and myself have come up with a theory.

    It's NOT arrogance if you actually ARE better than everyone else. Which I am*. LOL :whistle2:


    (*better than Nick at least!)
  39. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Nov 14, 2011]
    You're dead right Jase, the rear bumper basically acts as an air brake the way it come down and curves forward, air from under the car gets in there, and causes much turbulence.

    Holes in the rear valance would indeed help this, but the better solution, for smoother air flow, is to close the void up completely by adding in some form of flat floor., or a diffuser.

    I found this browsing ebay earlier:

    Fibreglass VARIS style universal diffuser diffusor | eBay

    Looks about perfect size for the A3. Might require trimming the spare wheel well down, but I could probably remove that all together if needs be. Thats something for the future though, once the new turbo is finally on!

    Was also looking at the possibility of making up my own front splitter, you can buy stabiliser bars for a splitter fairly cheaply, and make make the splitters from something simple like 6mm ply wood, as it's strong, stiff, and very light. Could be a cheap project to try over winter!



  40. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Nov 14, 2011]
    Quoted but no reply!!!?

    If you ever get a chance take a look under an elise. Completely closed off with under tray boards and they all come fitted with those diffusers too.

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