Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

[Stuart B]

out of interest is that hole / scrape ---

debris from inside the engine coming out,
a bit of broken ring
ceramic off a broken spark plug?

nothing can come through the inlet manifold can it through those tiny injectors what about during cleaning before fitting could something have blown in?

is it possible with pops and bangs that stuff can be sucked back in through the exhaust valves.

 

[Prawn]

Im glad that turbos ok Nick.

Not as glad as the next owner will be

out of interest is that hole / scrape ---

debris from inside the engine coming out,
a bit of broken ring
ceramic off a broken spark plug?

nothing can come through the inlet manifold can it through those tiny injectors what about during cleaning before fitting could something have blown in?

is it possible with pops and bangs that stuff can be sucked back in through the exhaust valves.

Good questions Stuart.

No pops and bangs here, so that's out. I've also never hit the hard cut limiter on this engine, as it didn't rev anywhere near as freely as the old engine, and the soft cut controlled it without the need for hard cut.

Never had any broken plugs in any way.

We were ultra careful during assembly too.

Can only assume it's caused by debris from a broken ring or similar.

I need to strip all the ancillaries off it, then flip the block over and get the pistons out for a proper investigation.

 

[Tj 0785]

Next owner? You got another turbo in mind?

 

[Prawn]

I wondered if anyone would pick up on that comment

I'm not doing all this work to end up with the same power I had before!

Plans are afoot, just waiting on details from Mr BBT at the moment.

 

[Tj 0785]

You keeping with a tfsiturbo, 430 maybe?

 

[scotty_24]

I had a feeling this would be the final straw for this turbo after facebook stalking

 

[Prawn]

You keeping with a tfsiturbo, 430 maybe?

Very close

One day in the future I'd love to do a 3076 on Nortech tubular manifold, but we all know how much that costs to do properly, and with an engine build to pay for at the same time, it's absolutely out of the question.

I love my tfsi 064. it's erved me very well for almost 4 years now, so I'm sure I'll love a bigger version of it

 

[craigt1985]

Yay for moarrrrr power!

 

[Prawn]

Apparently we're due another package on Monday

I may have bought something with a 4 week lead time before the engine blew up, and kind of forgotten about until I recieved the shipping notice this morning!

 

[Rainbird]

Eeeeeexcellent!

Once it's all back together again, the car will be better than ever

 

[mrsingh2u]

A shame about the engine going plop.. but looks like you're going to be bouncing back and making this car better than ever! Looking forward to it!

Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk

 

[badger5]

Very close

One day in the future I'd love to do a 3076 on Nortech tubular manifold, but we all know how much that costs to do properly, and with an engine build to pay for at the same time, it's absolutely out of the question.

I love my tfsi 064. it's erved me very well for almost 4 years now, so I'm sure I'll love a bigger version of it

 

[scotty_24]

Lol @badger5 such a tease

 

[Prawn]

Thanks for that Bill

I realise a setup like that done properly doesn't come cheap, but I bet that's going to do some AWESOME numbers, and combined with Alexs paddle shifter setup it's going to be a pretty mental car when it's complete!

 

[antwan64og]

Bad luck on the motor but I least you have an excuse to build it bigger.

Since you're not on an intergalactic budget why not increase the VE as much as possible on the cheap and the engine will flow more at less boost which means less heat and more chance of longetivity.

- large port head
- N/A cams (both this time)
- gasket match the exhaust manifold and clean up the casting as needed
- Gasket match the inlet manifold and clean up the casting as needed

Yes gains on paper are minor but it all just breathes better.

If you can make a reliable 370 - 400 on lowish boost to me thats ideal.

I'm not sure how tractable more power would be, POWERRRRRR!

 

[Prawn]

Bad luck on the motor but I least you have an excuse to build it bigger.

Since you're not on an intergalactic budget why not increase the VE as much as possible on the cheap and the engine will flow more at less boost which means less heat and more chance of longetivity.

- large port head
- N/A cams (both this time)
- gasket match the exhaust manifold and clean up the casting as needed
- Gasket match the inlet manifold and clean up the casting as needed

Yes gains on paper are minor but it all just breathes better.

If you can make a reliable 370 - 400 on lowish boost to me thats ideal.

I'm not sure how tractable more power would be, POWERRRRRR!

that's EXACTLY what I'll be doing Ant. Literally, to the word, what I've planned

I'm also going to look at ways to dowel the exhaust manifold to adapter fitting, as despite very strong efforts to align it all by modifying the gasket, when I removed the turbo it appears there's been a slight degree of missalignment again, which would of course have been interrupting flow.

I'm also going to look into a vernier to dial in the cams, as I'm not convinced the difference I saw in EGTs between large and small port engines was purely down to port size. I've heard stories of as much as 8 degrees variation on stock hardware

perhaps the SP was oil cooled 'in cylinder' ?

 

[Erikn89nl]

(like fitting the new engine I've had in the garage for 12 months...)

I know that feeling! Although mine is in @Prawn 's garage...

 

[JsHarthill]

hi nick,

so sad to hear about whats been happening, to be fair ive not looked at the thread since baby prawn was born cause i thought you'd be way to busy with him for at least a couple of months before moving back to car stuff.

i may have another, little bit eccentric idea that may be something to look at, apparently, (now this is just from generic information that i have found online while dabbling in modifications that i think may be cool), the 06A 1.8t bottom end can accept the crankshaft from a mk4 platform tdi (dont know exactly what one), which has the ability to give a longer stroke, meaning that your essentially turning your new engine into a 2.0-2.2 depending on how much extra volume you can actually gain from this, now as you know, alot of my ideas are a bit farfetched. but after reading that this happened to your engine i felt the urge to look at engine mods, was watching the stroker episode of hot rod garage and thought of something like that for you.

im sure bill will correct me if i am wrong and i didnt give much info to go on, but if this actually somehow worked and done it well, it would be a major benefit towards a newer boost setup aswell. my car has no mot atm and im going stir crazy, cant imagine how you feel.

im not going to go on about this any more anyway, if i find anything solid on the matter i will let you know, but i was just thinking since you had the bottom end there and knew your 1.8t's a bit better than i do. it would maybe be something you'd look into, anyways, im glad your still posting, really sorry about the beast, and the pic of baby prawn on the BGW is awesome

 

[superkarl]

hi nick,

so sad to hear about whats been happening, to be fair ive not looked at the thread since baby prawn was born cause i thought you'd be way to busy with him for at least a couple of months before moving back to car stuff.

i may have another, little bit eccentric idea that may be something to look at, apparently, (now this is just from generic information that i have found online while dabbling in modifications that i think may be cool), the 06A 1.8t bottom end can accept the crankshaft from a mk4 platform tdi (dont know exactly what one), which has the ability to give a longer stroke, meaning that your essentially turning your new engine into a 2.0-2.2 depending on how much extra volume you can actually gain from this, now as you know, alot of my ideas are a bit farfetched. but after reading that this happened to your engine i felt the urge to look at engine mods, was watching the stroker episode of hot rod garage and thought of something like that for you.

im sure bill will correct me if i am wrong and i didnt give much info to go on, but if this actually somehow worked and done it well, it would be a major benefit towards a newer boost setup aswell. my car has no mot atm and im going stir crazy, cant imagine how you feel.

im not going to go on about this any more anyway, if i find anything solid on the matter i will let you know, but i was just thinking since you had the bottom end there and knew your 1.8t's a bit better than i do. it would maybe be something you'd look into, anyways, im glad your still posting, really sorry about the beast, and the pic of baby prawn on the BGW is awesome

That type of stroker crank still requires new pistons. And it's not as good as the tfsi stroker.

 

[Chris90]

Im still a little curious as to why new pistons are going in. I understand the view of its a complete fresh bore and will be good, but a existing bore properly checked for roundness and a hone will do the same job IMHO. Ive done the whole 1mm bigger pistons job for a extra 11cc per cylinder (44cc extra in total making 1825cc engine). Albeit with JE pistons which are prone to be noisy, benefits were highly questionable and certainly not worth the £375 dent in my wallet or the associated machining costs.

Interesting the TDI crank isnt rated to higher RPMs. What is the reasoning for this? Im sure its just the oil pump gear and reluctor ring that needs pressing/swapping over. Not sure what else is required to fit. Didnt andrew who had the forged/built engine with headwork and cams (cant remember his username) drop a TDI crank into his?

Personally, id just stick to a 1.8T base engine, the turbo Nicks using at the minute does suffer from a bit of collector back pressure which can be seen in the TFSI boost plots where it starts to become less efficient over 5700rpm (i believe) due to all the gases not being able to fully get out. Only other factor for a benefit of stroker is if do plan to go big turbo later on in the years to come.

 

[JsHarthill]

yeah, but im always thinking outside the box, and not actually thinking, oh wait, a stroker kit may already exist lol. and trying to over-engineer (in my head) something that may or may not work instead of looking for something that is already about. and like i was saying about him already having a bottom end there, is if he managed to get his hands on one, test fit it in the crankcase, if it fits, sweet, then if the conrods fit correctly, sweeter, then if he cranks it over by hand measures the depth that the piston drops compared to the old crank and it doesnt reach tdc higher than it previously did, then it might turn out to be a stroker kit for virtually pennies, all he would need to do is possible moddify a crankshaft timing pulley if they are different. in theory, it could work, i dont have a 1.8t, so my knowledge of them is fairly slim, everything i know about them is from mainly reading prawns thread right here. but surely if a stroker kit is available for a 1.8t, its going to be expensive or everyone would be running them.

i am in no way saying, this is definatly going to work, but i know that nick has done the odd bit of creation over the years, e.g, the bgw mkII. anyways, like i said, this was just an idea that i had that may be something that someone may want to try.

 

[superkarl]

yeah, but im always thinking outside the box, and not actually thinking, oh wait, a stroker kit may already exist lol. and trying to over-engineer (in my head) something that may or may not work instead of looking for something that is already about. and like i was saying about him already having a bottom end there, is if he managed to get his hands on one, test fit it in the crankcase, if it fits, sweet, then if the conrods fit correctly, sweeter, then if he cranks it over by hand measures the depth that the piston drops compared to the old crank and it doesnt reach tdc higher than it previously did, then it might turn out to be a stroker kit for virtually pennies, all he would need to do is possible moddify a crankshaft timing pulley if they are different. in theory, it could work, i dont have a 1.8t, so my knowledge of them is fairly slim, everything i know about them is from mainly reading prawns thread right here. but surely if a stroker kit is available for a 1.8t, its going to be expensive or everyone would be running them.

i am in no way saying, this is definatly going to work, but i know that nick has done the odd bit of creation over the years, e.g, the bgw mkII. anyways, like i said, this was just an idea that i had that may be something that someone may want to try.

You're missing my point. The tdi crank stroker is already a conceived and executed idea. It's one of 2 options that people use already. It will fit his bottom end. The conrods will fit. And he will need new pistons with a new deck height

Here are the kits to make it happen:
https://www.performancebyie.com/int...t-20v-2-1l-2067cc-stroker-engine-kit-9-5-1-cr

Like I say not the best option.
Crank is cast. Silly rod angles which aren't good for piston and bore wear. And inability to rev

 

[<tuffty/>]

Interesting the TDI crank isnt rated to higher RPMs

Rod angles essentially... stroke is a little too much for the std 1.8t block... you can modify the 1.9tdi block which is taller to accept a 20v head though and build from that

<tuffty/>

 

[antwan64og]

Since the Prawn mobile ate itself at least one of the bores will be toast meaning a rebore or another block. A hone wouldn't cut it, literally.

For the abuse this car gets I'm not sure a stroker would even be ideal, does FWD need more low down torque.

Talking of longetivity what RPM is the uprated valve train rated too?
We're not talking short high RPM bursts either, this thing will sit there for 20mins straight

 

[<tuffty/>]

Talking of longetivity what RPM is the uprated valve train rated too?
We're not talking short high RPM bursts either, this thing will sit there for 20mins straight

Supertech will do 8-8.5k on hydros with cams quite happily under these conditions... Bill runs this setup in his race car at Combe...

<tuffty/>

 

[Prawn]

Oooooooh. Lots happening here!

Chris - new pistons and bore are an insurance policy. It gives me a brand new bore I can trust 100%, which is always going to be better than a bore that's done 100k then been honed further for fresh rings.

It will be run in by me, exactly how I want to run it in, so if it doesn't work, it'll be my own fault, not someone else's this time


Thats not to say you can't have good results from a stock bore, my last engine proves you can. But the risk of a poor ring seal is certainly higher retaining stock Bores.

Also, what's the safe limit on stock pistons? Who really knows. It's said to be 400-450bhp, a region I intend to be in.
These widely accepted limits also apply to road cars on the whole. The abuse my car gets is on a totally different level to your average road car. Again, there are plenty of lifestylers running 500bhp on stock pistons. Yet you'll struggle to find a race car over 300bhp on a UK grid that's still using stock pistons. From a strength point of view, again its an insurance policy. Especially if I plan to add a gt30 or similar a year or two down the line....

As for strokers, it's something which had zero appeal to me.

Further from square (so less revvy by nature) more Torque, and earlier spool?

These all sound like things I don't want or need in a fwd car where I'm already holding back boost on spool and throughout the midrange to keep the delivery smooth and progressive how I like it. Strokers have their place for sure, in a road car or 4wd, but it's not something I've even thought about, I simply don't want one.

Nice idea on the Tdi crank though Jamie, the specific issue with the tdi route as Paul and Karl said above is the rod angles get too extreme, and your moving further away from square and its just less revvy by nature.

Ant, the valve train I've got now is full single groove supertech, including double springs and Ti retainers, so I'm. Absolutely confident it's fine for upwards of 8k for sustained periods

Will most likely limit this one to 7800 depending on where the new turbo peaks with my progressive boost approach. The old one peaked at 7400rpm, so I'm hopeful it'll be well over 7k again on the new build. I didnt like the lower peak I got on the last engine, it just didn't suit my driving style.

In other news, my current 02m peloquin gearbox also has a new owner now too

 

[antwan64og]

You didn't use 2 n/a cams on the last motor which will have affected peak power....

Looking forward to seeing the new build!

 

[Prawn]

Yup. I realised pretty soon that was an error.

Going to do it all properly this time

 

[Chris90]

Im sure the exhaust cam is the same on the NA as the turbo heads? just the inlet that differs?

not 100% sure now as been a while since I looked back and researched these things. Do remember the NA inlet offers about 1mm extra lift and im sure it starts it duration a touch earlier BTDC as well. Theres plenty info on VWvortex about it.

Infact, just found this from on here regarding cam specs.

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/1-8-n-a-cams-in-a-1-8t.159131/#post-1619792

S0me interesting info for sure...

 

[Golfyste]

In other news, my current 02m peloquin gearbox also has a new owner now too

Wavetrac time?

 

[antwan64og]

Wavetrac time?

Sequential box?

I hope you're planning to do the ICM delete or at least buy new bolt down coils.

I always see 20 yr old coils in your engine pics and considering you push the bleeding edge.......

 

[Golfyste]

Oooo even better! Haha
Need deep pockets though!

Ls2 coils maybe?

 

[Prawn]

Im sure the exhaust cam is the same on the NA as the turbo heads? just the inlet that differs?

not 100% sure now as been a while since I looked back and researched these things. Do remember the NA inlet offers about 1mm extra lift and im sure it starts it duration a touch earlier BTDC as well. Theres plenty info on VWvortex about it.

Infact, just found this from on here regarding cam specs.

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/1-8-n-a-cams-in-a-1-8t.159131/#post-1619792

S0me interesting info for sure...

Exhaust cam is definitely different too, I need to check part numbers on mine to see which exact version of the cams I have, but when I installed them I checked lift on both sides with my vernier and the exhaust cam definitely had in the region of 1mm more lift.

Wavetrac time?

No, as good as a wavetrac is, it's just a posh ATB in a frock if we're honest.
After years of using ATB diffs, I've decided that whilst it's all out, and I'm in no great hurry, now is probably the ideal time to make the jump up to a plate diff.

More on that what I finalise spec and plans and get it ordered

Sequential box?

I hope you're planning to do the ICM delete or at least buy new bolt down coils.

I always see 20 yr old coils in your engine pics and considering you push the bleeding edge.......

Budget doesn't quite stretch to a sequential

Re Coils: You know, I hadn't actually thought about that Ant. Maybe I'll think about it when it's all up and running again! it's certainly on the list of wants, but I won't be touching any wiring until the engine is back in and running successfully. I just HATE wiring so much I've never actually looked into it in enough detail to get to the stage of doing it! I'm sure like most things it won't be too bad when I get stuck in though.

In other news, I have a delivery incomming!



Marcin is close!

 

[Rainbird]

See your driver looks like a Marchin so I'm inclined to believe DPD on that one. Mine is always called Trevor, but in the half dozen times he's visited it appears he's had 3 facial reconstructions and 2 sex changes...

 

[Prawn]

We get a lot of deliveries here at work, usually car parts.

Andy and I are actually on first name terms with Harvinder from UPS

Rumour has it Marchin has presents, but who are they for?

 

[superkarl]

Would you trust a 'Ken' ?


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[Prawn]

You're in Liverpool, I'd check the contents before Ken leaves. he's likely stolen it and replaced it with bubble wrap.

Ironically, Ken even looks like a scouser!

On the topic of DPD drivers,Marchin has been!

 

[Rainbird]

Amazing that they've managed to squeeze an entire LS3 in there really.

 

[superkarl]

Well I'm either about to be robbed or receive car goodies

That was a close one. Ken is as in fact a well mannered Lancashire man who enjoys mars bars. Goods delivered


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[Prawn]

Who'd have thought it ey? Good news indeed SK.

I my parcel news, I've got as far as opening the box:



Then the boss appeared to I closed it again and did some work