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Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Prawn, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    and bloody hell, what a road test.

    This, is REEEEEEAAAAALLLLYYYY GOOD!!!!

    The map is fairly aggressive, with strong boost the whole way through the range, but Nikis still held it well back from it's earlier 370lbft state where it would have been a true animal I'm sure.

    He's also done something very interesting with the throttle mapping, which I'm really liking so far, the first 50-60% of the throttle do not request any N75 duty at all, so up to 50% throttle the car runs at 1 bar and just pulls really nicely and smoothly.

    it's only when you go beyond 60% throttle right up to 100% that it starts making any additional boost request and the full force is unleashed, it seems to work really well existing bends, where you want to be feeding the power in gently so as not to upset the balance, then when you know it'll take it you can press that last 20% and it really, REALLY takes off.

    3rd gear is now absolutely savage, and even 4th and 5th still pull hard from anything above 3k rpm. the Rev limit is now at 7600rpm too, although it still finds it too fast in 2nd and 3rd!
    bigal 1, Jason.s, Gops and 1 other person like this.
  2. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    Nice write up. Always enjoy the indepth stories.
    Revs high that for a stock head too! Must sound crazy!
  3. Gops
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    Gops 6th gear @7000rpm

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    Prawn, I just wanna say you and everyone involved have done some amazing work! Hats off to you all! A hybrid would be pretty mental ey! Lets see if bill would be kind enough to try it on mine :p epic results and I wanna ride in it!!! :)
  4. MIGGZ
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    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    Top work nick and to the team! Enjoyed that read. So what's next lol? NOS?
  5. ReDBull
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    ReDBull Member

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    This is a conversion that really excites me. The turbos not pushed as much as a hybrid and potentialy with less problems than BT set ups seem to suffer. I'm glad you're being the guinipig and pleased alls going well. Big thumbs up to all involved!

    One or two people really need to drive a FWD car with a Diff!!!!
    s33nyboy12 likes this.
  6. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    Awesome write up.

    You said previously about it hitting a brick wall and not going anymore than basically what you`ve got and i agree with what Karl said. I bet it needs the inlet sorting! Getting to those sort of power levels didnt Welly and Tuffty see large increases with a bigger inlet over the standard item? Get that pikey inlet on the go you started and lets see what it can actually do!

    Obviously not that it needs more power but everyone in the world wants to know what it can do when its being hammered like the peak run on the old hybrid.

    Interesting to hear about the boost management via throttle position. Clear stuff. Wonder whats better, this or gear based boost?
  7. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    What injectors and FPR was this all on in the end?
  8. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    Yea bang on Jason, we reckon the flow restriction is in the inlet tract for sure. The one weak point we can see at the moment is the tfsi outlet pipe from the turbo, it's only just over 50mm internal diameter for the first 18" before expanding out to 63mm. Niki said all the BIG power tfsi cars have had replacements of this installed for larger ones.

    The longish multi bend boost pipe routing can't be helping either in the quest for ultimate power.

    its a very odd restriction it hits, because it doesn't get upset at all, it just ceases to make more power. EGTs don't rise, inlet temps don't rise, it just stops swallowing any more air. At 1 point Niki raised it from 1.4 bar and 26* ignition at the top end, right up to 1.7 bar and 30* ignition at the top end, it it made no more power. Got no hotter, it seemed more than happy, jus at the same power as a lower boost would produce.

    Like you say, it doesn't NEED any more at all, and I think the 370+ is a great result. But it's he good to get a home made large plenum inlet on there with the tb flipped over to shorten the run. I believe Dan is also working on a 63mm charge pipe at the moment

    Gear based boost is almost certainly option than the funny throttle stuff, but it does make it much easier to drive knowing you'll only get the full power at absolute full throttle :) with my ecu being an antique this is all it can manage :laugh:
    Jason.s and kwistof like this.
  9. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    my 440's at 4 bar in the end Fred :)

    these runs were all done with the 440's at 3 bar, you can see it just starting to lean out at at the top end:

    [​IMG]

    compared to on the 4 bar where niki still had control over it top end and kept it a bit richer:

    [​IMG]
  10. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    Hi there.


    Looks like you had a good day at the office there!

    I can see the point about the restriction you're seeing.

    Mine obviously has the stock turbo outlet,but has a custom made pipe from there to the intercooler,and allows it to sleeve from the 2" compressor outlet to 3" very quickly.
  11. jamiebennett81
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    jamiebennett81 Active Member

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    Looking forward to a ride in this (all be it slightly nervous lol)
  12. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    it probably still won't be any faster than that bloody freakish Leon of yours :laugh:

    You'll enjoy it mate. Feels proper for sure. Took it out on my own last night, 1 up, low weight, 3rd gear just grips and goes, it's quite terrifying just how urgent it is!
  13. boomsly
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    boomsly New Member

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    sounds like a proper beast!
    now to see how this 4x4 downpipe is sorted and then the availability of a package :D
    Goubo1 likes this.
  14. Golfyste
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    Golfyste New Member

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    Just got back of holiday and read through the last few pages with excitement and the results looks awesome! A very nice safe power that is ideal for reliability!
    I will hopefully be looking at this conversion for the start of next year so looking forward to the packages etc being available.
    You and all the lads need to give yourselves a big pat on the back as you've done some awesome work!
    Well done pal and keep the developments coming:racer:
  15. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Sep 7, 2013]
    boost was measured at plenum i presume prawny? (so the flow had gotten past the turbo outlet ;) )
  16. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 8, 2013]
    Correct Bill :) Measured from a T at the plenum exactly how you logged it :)

    Inlet temps seemed great on the dyno, measured AIT's on VCDS were around 1-2 degrees above ambient (obviously that's down to the meth!), but even the IC core pre meth injection didn't feel hot at all, usually the hot side of the IC tank on most setups would get pretty hot. I do think that stock outlet pipe is holding it back though!
  17. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Sep 8, 2013]
    i will look at my discharge pipe on the leon and make something larger i guess
  18. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 8, 2013]
    Niki reckoned the few big power ones he's done have all had this pipe replaced. Looking at it it'd be pretty easy, just a simple 3 bolt flange and a few 63mm bends. it shouldn't be too hard to create :)
  19. Ivo
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    Ivo Member

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    I could not read the whole thread..., but what I read is very very exciting. Great results!!
    To sum up you made 370bhp on standard K04-064 unit and stock displacement 1.8T with forged rods I suppose?
  20. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    Correct Sir :thumbsup: That sums up this chapter of the engine development, most of the thread is about other stuff though, the TFSI turbo route only began about 12 weeks ago :)

    Turbo is a stock k04-064 with a 1 bar actuator, and the engine is a stock AGU with forged rods. The rest of the bolt on hardware is all optimised for flow of course, but those are the basics.
    peterg60 likes this.
  21. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    Here's a few pictures of where the restriction is a possibility, It was always thought it might be and hence a flange was developed to overcome this issue, on the left is the OEM one verse what we propose to use with some 63mm pipework and also a picture of the outlet on the turbo.. I have seen on one other setup that they have removed this large, noise reducing outlet and welded on a K04 1.8t outlet, which might be an option for some, I certainly have enough of them so that wouldn't be issue but then you loose the fact that a stock tfsi k04 fits directly..



    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  22. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    Wow, it really is a tiny outlet isn't it Dan! And to think that tiny bit of flowing 370bhp's worth of air!

    I look forward to seeing if the new outlet changes things at all.
  23. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Clap.

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    Moar powahh.
    ScottD3 likes this.
  24. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    And Moar Shaaaaaaaaaaaaaafts!!
    Paradox1 likes this.
  25. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    That issue is in hand :whistle2:
    bigal 1 and ScottD3 like this.
  26. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    Got some Raxles on order? Sweeet.
  27. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    Assuming Raxles means Rear Axles, then no :laugh:

    Wrong wheel drive and proud :racer:
  28. wild willy
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    wild willy Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    The measurement of the stock pipe reminds me a little of the suspected flow wall issue of the relentless mani of similar diameter restriction.
    Don't be afraid to the push the boat out guys and maybe even go 70mm (dont recite lag issues).
  29. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
  30. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    oh, I thought you were on the wind up as usual Jase :laugh:

    Not heard of Raxles before! not what I had planned, but good to know :)
  31. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Me? Wind up? Never ;)

    On the subject of driveshafts and joints without bringing my issues into your thread too much.

    When your shafts/joints were on their way out can you ever remember there being play ie if you grab the driveshaft and twist it front to back did it move? Drivers side on mine is making a knocking/rubbing type sound only under 10mph ish when say coasting with clutch in and when pulling away/reversing. My driveshaft has a front to back movement in it.

    All the cars i`ve looked at at work are solid and dont have any play in them at all.
  32. Macky
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    Macky New Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Sup guys,

    New here but had to register just to post on this thread.

    Have to give big ups to all involved in this build.

    My man Scullies and I are in the process of rebuilding my TT 225 here in Dubai and we have found that my stock K04 needs to be replaced in the not too distant future. We have rebuilt the engine with Forged rods and Forged Pistons. Soooo with that in mind and for want of a better statement, if and when this kit goes public, TAKE MY MONEY!!!! :nyah:

    All jokes aside, I am interested in how it will all turn out and would love to slam one of these suckers on my TT.

    Good luck and look forward to reading more.

    Keep it up boys!!!
    bigal 1 likes this.
  33. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]

    TT version is being done as we speak, hopefully be up and running in the next few weeks, all being well.. Headache being the down pipe but its been done before so shouldn't be too much problem..
  34. Macky
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    Macky New Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Pure awesomesauce,

    I am looking forward to seeing the kit complete and hearing Prawn squeak like a lil 7 yr old girl who just got her first Barbie. ;-)
    bigal 1, MIGGZ and Prawn like this.
  35. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    ^^^ I like this guy, he can stay :laugh:

    Thanks for signing up dude :)
    bigal 1 likes this.
  36. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    That does sound like a worn joint yes mate, more than likely an outer I'd think on yours. Mine have all done this at some point :laugh:
  37. Macky
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    Macky New Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Hahahahah thanks Prawn,

    I can get a lil excitable about cars and boost. Not in that particular order though. :-D

    Plus I want to show these boys over here my tail pipes and give Scullies a good run for his Big Turbo S3.
  38. MIGGZ
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    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    lmao that does sound like darrens mate!
  39. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Ha. Yeah i thought it`d be the joint. Time to spend more money. fcn thing lol.
  40. Macky
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    Macky New Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Sup Miggz,

    I guess when fellow Saffers get together it all goes pear shaped.

    Ask Scullies about the sea water (but shhhhh I didn't tell you) :w00t:

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