1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Prawn, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,893
    Likes Received:
    940
    [Aug 12, 2013]

    Unless comparitive measurements taken in turbos inlet vs outlet thats anyones guess currently.
    We know the oe K04-023 units egt location and temps and the factorys 920c "component protection" number. We also know they glow well at this temp.. lol..

    Is there any actual data for tfsi egt's measured?

    A good question to see what's deemed acceptable... and also what manifold back pressures we see also....
  2. s3dave
    Offline

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    10,120
    Likes Received:
    731
    [Aug 12, 2013]
    Does the TFSI unit use an egt probe? its not on the turbo/mani..
    must use the o2 sensor?
  3. beachbuggy
    Offline

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,838
    Likes Received:
    161
    [Aug 12, 2013]
    TFSI is all modelled EGT

    Id imagine they had an EGT probe in there at some stage and just compared those EGTS with what was being recorded on the Lambda and modelled it from there.. Best guess and all that..

    I think all the probe in this setup will do is aid the tuning to see when EGTS get too high, Hopefully more boost will be able to be run over the old K04 hybrid without shooting egts through the roof...

    I think this Gauge also has a 5+ output that can be triggered when the alarm is set, so you could in theory wire in a relay into the N75 and that would trigger actuator only pressure if the alarm sent off.
  4. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,893
    Likes Received:
    940
    [Aug 12, 2013]
    without knowing what a tfsi does as "normal" its at best, guess work, and only egt equipped cars we know from logging are factory k04-023 in the main, and those who log their own development hacks like me.
    no baseline..

    On the list of things to do for me when I get a mk5 project car
  5. ReDBull
    Offline

    ReDBull Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    13
    [Aug 12, 2013]
    I'll see your car there I'm booked in for a mine to be stage 2 mapped on the 6th!
    Gops likes this.
  6. Prawn
    Offline

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,234
    Likes Received:
    1,854
    [Aug 12, 2013]
    You'll see me before that Paul, arn't you popping in to say hello tomorrow?
  7. ReDBull
    Offline

    ReDBull Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    13
  8. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,893
    Likes Received:
    940
    [Aug 13, 2013]
    no mate.. its "modelled" and calculated.....
  9. Prawn
    Offline

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,234
    Likes Received:
    1,854
    [Aug 14, 2013]
    Long day, much fun, 410 miles covered in the track car.

    Will do a write up about the Sprint tomorrow, but for now, here's a little vid, pulling well in the cold fresh air :) 14psi, no WMI active here, it was empty. Blue lights that appear is the glow from the shift light.



    TFSI K04-064 1.8T - YouTube
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
  10. Gops
    Offline

    Gops 6th gear @7000rpm

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,729
    Likes Received:
    319
    [Aug 14, 2013]
    Bloody hell that thing shifts!! I might come see you when your at R-tech nick!
  11. S3Alex
    Offline

    S3Alex Rarely neutral

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2008
    Messages:
    7,265
    Likes Received:
    2,170
    [Aug 14, 2013]
    There may be some data over on VAGOC,but there have certainly been a few cars where the protection has cut in,inferring that the temps(as calculated and not measured) did exceed the sfaety limits,causing the ECU to pull back.

    This also seems to apply to some of the TT-RS engines,and the tuning solution on stock turbos has always been to run more fuel and pull back on the timing etc to cover this.

    Exact figures seem hard to find,from what I've seen myself when looking around,as very few if any have a proper EGT probe,and everyone seems to go on the calculated values,when trouble is encountered.

    The companies running BT conversions on these cars are very cagey about publishing data,and clearly that doesn't help people looking for information.
  12. wild willy
    Offline

    wild willy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    4
    [Aug 14, 2013]
    What sensor is used to "calculate" the egt temp. The k04-023 on the 1.8T measures the exhaust temp post cat to verify efficiency range. Logic would say its the secondary lambda probe that does this. Is it a case that as well as oxygen content the sensor has a simple temp element which offers a mV output according to temp...maybe the Lambda heating circuit is used. If a lambda probe can offer temp readings then why is the lambda probe in the downpipe not used for egt function or is this whats implied by calculation.?
  13. beachbuggy
    Offline

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,838
    Likes Received:
    161
    [Aug 14, 2013]
    Yes post turbo lambda is used as the modelling sensor. I guess it knows how much it needs to heat the lambda probe and that voltage/resistance can then be modelled against what was tested in the factory. They then stock that through a map and a guesstimate egt figure comes out. What it won't account for is bad lambda sensors, larger ID pipes. Etc etc.
  14. beachbuggy
    Offline

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,838
    Likes Received:
    161
    [Aug 14, 2013]
    Remember this is all on a 180 or 210 BHP as it left the factory of yes I'm ok or f*** it's hot dump fuel! Not refined or accurate just belt and braces safety
  15. Prawn
    Offline

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,234
    Likes Received:
    1,854
    [Aug 14, 2013]
    So, yesterday Dad and I entered a little low key Sprint event at Curborough. It was great fun!

    I set off from home at 6am, and met Dad near Worcester, this was to be the first long trip on the new setup, so everything was crossed!

    [​IMG]

    We passed JoJo country on the way up. Sadly, it was 9am, so Jo wasn't open for the free Chicken fried rice he had promised me :(

    [​IMG]

    We arrived at Curborough, all very chilled out. it was a very informal day, but enjoyable

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The morning was spent doing practise runs, then the afternoon runs were timed.

    First timed run out in the morning was just 0.2s off the class record. The class we'd been put in was 'Road legal over 2.0' (due to the turbo) A good start.

    Then it rained a lot. Dad didn't want to take it out in the wet, not being familiar with the car, so I just went out and messed around a lot.

    In the wet:



    Curborough Sprint Aug 13 - Audi A3 in the wet - YouTube

    And then mildly moist:



    Curborough Sprint Aug 13 - A3 in the damp. - YouTube

    I won't lie, I had a moment in that one! We've discovered that the check valve on the servo line is leaking slightly, and for the first few tenths of a second after boost there is no vacuum assistance to the servo, so a quick squirt of powered followed by a left foot brake saw me find the brake pedal ROCK solid with no stopping power at all! I grabbed the handbrake at the last last second to get the back end to drop round, and just kept my foot planted, crisis avoided!

    Later on it dried up, and I did a 1:25.9, which was fastest in class on the day by 5s, and broke the previous fastest time they'd had in the class by 2.0s as well, which was pretty cool. we were 3rd over all on the day behind a Caterham R500 and a bike engined MK Indy regular.

    After that, I decided I'd had enough, and as it was drying, Dad had a few more runs.

    [​IMG]

    Despite having only 2 runs in the morning, Dads 3rd run in the afternoon was a 1:31.8, good enough for 3rd in class and 5th fastest over all on the day, so bloody good going, considering he had me on board too.



    YouTube

    We decided to send dad out alone to get a better time.

    Then got a bit carried away:

    [​IMG]

    I'm sure there was a corner here :laugh:

    [​IMG]

    Really good fun day :)

    Just to make things a tiny bit cooler still, after the fun of Mum doing a lap of the Ring in the car last summer, here's a pic of my gran, aged 93, who quite easily jumped into the drivers seat, and was gutted to find she couldn't reach the pedals, or the gear lever!

    [​IMG]

    Coolest grandma ever :thumbsup:
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
    AJC, ReDBull, Ashley =1.8T= and 4 others like this.
  16. beachbuggy
    Offline

    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,838
    Likes Received:
    161
    [Aug 14, 2013]
    Gran in a reasonably modified car...

    Top Gear needs this...
  17. bigal 1
    Offline

    bigal 1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    125
    [Aug 14, 2013]
    Her choice of transport for shopping is an Ultima GTR because she can reach the pedals and it's a paddle shift.
    StaceyS3, Prawn and 16Klappe like this.
  18. MIGGZ
    Offline

    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    233
    [Aug 15, 2013]
    i really enjoyed those vids nick you really throw the car so easily around those corners looks very comfortable
  19. Prawn
    Offline

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,234
    Likes Received:
    1,854
    [Aug 15, 2013]
    Cheers Miggles, it's very chuckable, and at low speeds so easy to catch when it does slide, good fun :)
  20. MIGGZ
    Offline

    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    233
    [Aug 15, 2013]
    yeah i saw that on the right hander it came out and you pulled it back like a boss
  21. 666markyboy
    Offline

    666markyboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,141
    Likes Received:
    35
    [Aug 15, 2013]
    It corners amazingly flat.... great vids :)
  22. Prawn
    Offline

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,234
    Likes Received:
    1,854
    [Aug 16, 2013]
    few pics I found:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Pedrosousa likes this.
  23. MIGGZ
    Offline

    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    233
    [Aug 16, 2013]
    Sexy pics!!!!

    What tyres were used on the wet dude?
  24. Prawn
    Offline

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,234
    Likes Received:
    1,854
    [Aug 16, 2013]
    Same as the dry mate, P-zero Corsas that we drove there on :)
  25. MIGGZ
    Offline

    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    233
    [Aug 16, 2013]
    Ooo ok was just wondering how you still had so much traction even in the wet
  26. Prawn
    Offline

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,234
    Likes Received:
    1,854
    [Aug 16, 2013]
    I didn't :laugh: was slippery as anything.

    It was actually really enjoyable doing the runs in the wet though, on the road, you can't push on in the wet really, as it's just not safe or sensible to be sliding around lots on the public roads. On a trackday, you tend to be reasonably careful because of the higher speeds involved.

    at curby, low speed, low grip, and only 1 car on track at a time you could be a bit more adventureous
  27. MIGGZ
    Offline

    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    233
    [Aug 16, 2013]
    Well dude must say considering you were on semis and in the wet it looked very smooth and predictable very impressed!
  28. superkarl
    Offline

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    8,150
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    [Aug 16, 2013]
    will we see you at goodwood next year gunning for the record?

    also, there isnt one pic imo where the wing looks out of place. Really looks purposeful
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  29. Prawn
    Offline

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,234
    Likes Received:
    1,854
    [Aug 16, 2013]
    I think this is a compliment. I shall definidely take it as one :laugh: cheers dude.

    Going to start looking at the splitter tomorrow I think, need to get the materials, and make a start looking at how I'm going to do it, making brackets etc
  30. superkarl
    Offline

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    8,150
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    [Aug 16, 2013]
    I just realised my wing comment didnt make sense :think: lol. edited.
    yes, both were compliments, especially the times and doing so well afterall. It shows how comfortable you are with the car. Its obv well setup and just right power wise to be chuckable and quick.
  31. Prawn
    Offline

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,234
    Likes Received:
    1,854
    [Aug 16, 2013]
    I fitted the N75 wiring plug tonight.

    My god that's tricky to reach! Won't be doing that again in a hurry!

    Will finish routing it tomorrow, and hooking up my switch again so it can be turned on / off from in-car.
  32. Stuart35205
    Offline

    Stuart35205 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2013
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    5
    [Aug 16, 2013]
    Hi Prawn , sorry to change the subject but this thread had nearly hit 200,000 views you've got to be happy with that , a really epic build aswell!
  33. Paradox1
    Offline

    Paradox1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,833
    Likes Received:
    86
    [Aug 16, 2013]
    Prawn,take some pics of how you wire up the on off switch for the n75.would be really handy to have
  34. MIGGZ
    Offline

    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    233
    [Aug 17, 2013]
    I don't know if the n75 switch would work on the newer ecu's it would throw it into limp mode would it not?
  35. Prawn
    Offline

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,234
    Likes Received:
    1,854
    [Aug 17, 2013]
    works perfectly Miggz, done it on several cars.

    Marty, it's too simple man. Cut one of the wires (I chose the earth - yellow/black), fit a switch. done.
  36. MIGGZ
    Offline

    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    233
    [Aug 17, 2013]
    O ok never knew that hey always thought it would throw it into limp mode then would have to erase code on vagcom
  37. Prawn
    Offline

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,234
    Likes Received:
    1,854
    [Aug 17, 2013]
    Throw an N75 circuit open code, but this does no harm and causes no issues. no CEL or anything at all. Drives perfectly, just with less power, which is nice sometimes. Much smoother!
  38. MIGGZ
    Offline

    MIGGZ nanananananananan BATMAN

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    233
    [Aug 17, 2013]
    Ok Mr Nickelsworth if you say it won't cause harm then I will do this!
  39. Paradox1
    Offline

    Paradox1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,833
    Likes Received:
    86
    [Aug 17, 2013]
    Thanks Nick,just wanted to be sure before i mess it all up
  40. s3gazz
    Offline

    s3gazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,288
    Likes Received:
    68
    [Aug 17, 2013]
    Prawn pal this sounds a good way just to put power instead of unplugging the n75 I take it.

    good for round town and when the car goes into garage and someone using it haha

Share This Page