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Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Prawn, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 24, 2013]
    The ballast said he would have liked a proper seat and belts.
  2. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 24, 2013]
    Hey prawn, you beat me to it by seconds. My very same picture keeps on going off. Why. It stays for a few minutes then goes.???
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
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  3. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 24, 2013]
    Now that the gear lever position is sorted, next step on getting the controls perfect will be pedal position.

    I've ordered some more grip tape, and got some 5mm alloy plate. I just need some counter sunk allen bolts and a counter sink bit.

    Plan is to make cover plates for the throttle and clutch pedals, and for the brake pedal also spacing it up maybe 10-15mm to change it's position relative to the throttle under heavy braking. Should make Heel n' toe a bit nicer :)
  4. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    I heard tilton do some nice pedal boxes ;)
  5. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Haha, that goes against the 2013 rule of 'make everything if possible' Sam :laugh:

    ive wanted some different form of pedals since I built the car, I had the TT covers originally but moved then to my other back in the day.

    Brake pedal travel is ever so slightly increased with the forge brakes due to piston sizes, and to be absolutely perfect for me I could do with having te brake pedal 10-15mm higher so its just at that sweet spot for heel n toe braking.

    I've been speaking to a good friend who races in the mx5 cup and he's shown me that getting the controls perfect is SO important, hence the gear lever re-work.

    In his mx5 race car he's bent his clutch away to the left, and installed a huge double size brake pedal, so he can right foot brake into the corner whilst down shifting, then he swaps to left foot braking just before turn in to allow himself to trail brake into the corner, reducing any dead time between brake and throttle.

    All very much 10/10ths stuff I realise, but hugely impressive attention to detail, and amazing to watch him drive.
  6. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    I think part of getting this rear wing to look right is in the end plates.

    I’ve been looking at the AMD BTCC golf, and their rear wing sits at a similar height and position to mine, but manages to look less odd due to the end plates, they project very little above the wing, and almost entirely below it, making it look like the whole thing sits lower to the car.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This should also make it look a bit narrower, as the deeper end plates will be closer to the body as the C pillars widen lower down.

    I’ll try mocking some end plates up in cardboard and see how it looks, and if needs be trim a tiny bit off each end, but I think it’ll improve the look vastly over the current ‘ears’ on the wing.
  7. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    i wouldnt copy it too much, that car is **** slow!
    But seriously that is a good point, something so subtle yet makes the whole thing look completely different to yours.
  8. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    You need to try and stick with the lines of the 8l if you can.
  9. ReDBull
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    ReDBull Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    I haven't check your thread out for a while. Not much changed then...
    I'm looking forward to seeing how you get on with the flat floor as that's the bit that's causing much head scratching for me.
    The TFSI K04 turbo will be a game changer.
  10. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Flat floor is a more long term plan Paul, but it'll happen. Immediate plans are to make new end plates for the wing to make it look a bit better, new pedals to alter the height for right for heel n toe, and then hopefully the tfsi turbo after inters :)
  11. s3 Hoggy
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    s3 Hoggy Whats going on???

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Nick are the end plates not able to be switched from one side to the other? So that the wider end is at the back? If you catch my drift
  12. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    They have been switched already. Going to make our own, should look a lot better.
  13. s3 Hoggy
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    s3 Hoggy Whats going on???

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Aha! I'm sure you guys will make it look spot on!
  14. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    well.

    This is by no means a finished product, or even a developed idea in the slightest.

    I stuck my chips in the oven, and I had 25 minutes to get busy with the cardboard.

    This is the result:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'm sure it could still be improved, and I'm sure an inch or 2 off the wing at each end would further improve it's looks, but I think it's safe to say this shape of end plate looks far better on first impressions, bringing the whole line of it down and not standing out like pixie ears.

    To be continued! After lasagne and chips :laugh:
    Pedrosousa likes this.
  15. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    And beer.
    Prawn likes this.
  16. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Excuse my poor paint skills.

    I think this -

    [​IMG]

    Gives the illusion that the top of the spoiler is flatter because the rear edge of the side spat is larger; so it makes the spoiler look as though it wraps round the back more than the original spats or the flat efforts.

    Seeing as it's cardboard; I think Prawn should give it a try.
    Vorshprungdork likes this.
  17. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    I agree with jardo
    16Klappe likes this.
  18. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Will make some like that tomorrow.

    Seeing as it's simple alloy plate, I could make up hundreds, in different sizes and colours for different events :laugh:
  19. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    group development is good :)

    I'll get the scissors!
  20. ReDBull
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    ReDBull Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    I'm surprised you didn't go for a larger spoiler higher up in the air flow. I'm evan more surprised you're concerned what it looks like :p.
    What's the angle of the spoiler?
  21. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Dad wanted to get a bigger one! I veto'd that idea!

    Despite what everyone else in the world seems to think, how it looks is still very important to me.

    It's very difficult to be proud of something that looks ****, regardless of how good it might be. the past year of smashed A3 tought me that.

    Plus, how many race cars look stupid? They don't, they all look absolutely immaculate, otherwise it looks unprofessional.

    The whole concept of a track 'slag' is something I hate, I spend far more time and money working on and developing my car than any of the show scene lads with their silly bling wheels and too much polish.

    That's not a dig at you at all Paul :) Just expressing my thoughts!
  22. ReDBull
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    ReDBull Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    I wouldn't be offended if it was a dig!
    Prawn likes this.
  23. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Sorry old bean, got there first with a PM.
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  24. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 25, 2013]
    Who would not like a bigger one.??? My thinking of a BIGGER ONE was a deeper chord depth to give more down force for a given width. As they say down the BALLS POND ROAD. Giving my age away now, most people would not know where the BPR is.
  25. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Jun 26, 2013]
    Get an S3 spoiler and fix this spoiler to that. It would look much better if it was further back. With big wings you want it as far back as possible. The AMD Golf spoiler is almost level with the bottom of the glass where as yours is too high up. I know the MK5 glass is a steeper angle than the A3 but something like the additional spoiler would aid that.

    Or get some extentions for it to bring it out further towards the back.
  26. Lewis583
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    Lewis583 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 26, 2013]
    Or possibly look into mounting it similar to the BTCC eBay motors 1-series?
  27. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 26, 2013]
    that did occur to me Jase, mount the front spoiler tab in the rear mounting hole, then some small plates tying in both mounting holes on the bracket extending backwards to support the rear of the spoiler. Very easily done. Just need a bit of 3mm steel plate to try it :)
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  28. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 26, 2013]
    From what I can gather the further back the better. Also I read that the ideal position apparently is for the leading edge of the wing to be perpendicular with the tarmac. That will not happen and in most cases impractical. Also the leading edge must be in clear uninterrupted air so it has to be installed above the rear roof line. Another point also is that the most important design of the end plates is that they extend downwards more than upwards. The reason for this is not to capture the air flowing over the top, but prevent air from entering the vacuum created below the wing and decreasing the down force. All very complicated. Looking forward to testing something new again.
  29. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jun 26, 2013]
    remember that top gear Avantine thing?
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    wild willy, Paradox1, Sam_ and 3 others like this.
  30. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 26, 2013]
    Did they give it back to you.
  31. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 26, 2013]
    Its going to be Tuffty's latest mod addition
  32. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [Jun 26, 2013]
    Everyone knows if it's not OEM it's not going on his motor :) lol

    How about the wing of the lovely R8 GT model?

    Drop TPS a call and see how much they retail at :laugh:

    Attached Files:

  33. 666markyboy
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    666markyboy Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 26, 2013]
    I think your end plates need to be curvy,,,, sort of pear drop shaped perhaps with the fatter end to the rear.... the A3 is curvy at the back and it's the sharp angles on the end plates that make it look odd.... you want something that ties it in with the curves of the roof and the rear quarter.... you have a PM regarding Pedal instalation :)
  34. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 27, 2013]
    So, with a nasty stint of night shifts looming, I found myself with some free daylight time today, so decided to crack on with the pedals.

    Annoyingly, I've just got in and read a nice PM from Mark offering some help on a few bits. The annoying bit is that I've just finished, and come in to add this to the thread :laugh: Thanks anyway mark! I'll drop you a PM later when I'm on the train :)

    So, pedals.

    This is what we started with:

    [​IMG]

    Stock brake and clutch rubbers, and nothing on the throttle. How it's been for years.

    There's nothing wrong with this at all, but the more I read into race car prep, the more focus there seems to be on getting all the small things right first, making sure the controls are as easy to use as possible, and everything falls nicely to hand (and foot!)

    So. Since fitting the forge brakes, pedal travel has been very slightly increased. Not by any terrible amount, but it's just a fraction lower, and this altered my ability to heel and toe.

    Under light braking, heel N toe was still fine, but under really heavy braking, as you would on track, the pedal was just that tiny bit too low relative to the throttle.

    So I got out some scraps of alloy, and some counter sunk bolts, and got busy :)

    First trial fit:

    [​IMG]

    The throttle pedal is 3mm alloy, about 14mm wider than the stock pedal, bent to shape, countersunk and bolted through the original throttle, making this pedal 3mm higher than previously.

    [​IMG]

    The brake pedal:

    [​IMG]

    10mm thick alloy (as that's what I had!), much larger and wider than the stock pedal, and offset to the right by 10mm to make it closer to the throttle to aid heel N toe.

    And the clutch, just 3mm again, bent to shape and counter sunk:

    [​IMG]

    And wrapped in Jessup grip tape:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And all fitted, I offset the clutch as far to the left as I could so it wouldn't get in the way for left foot braking:

    [​IMG]

    I also opted to space the brake pedal away a further 10mm, making it around 17mm higher in relation to the throttle now than it was:

    [​IMG]

    Pedal heights under braking now feel MUCH nicer, and having the larger brake pedal offset to the right is great, nice and close to the throttle for Heel N toe, and loads of room and a nice big pedal for left foot braking too.

    Tomorrows job is sorting this wing out once and for all :)
  35. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 27, 2013]
    Sound... :)

    <tuffty/>
  36. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Jun 27, 2013]
    Should have got Tim to wrap those pedals; he'd have done a boss job ;)

    Good effort.
    Tim_Attard and kwistof like this.
  37. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 27, 2013]
    Who's Tim dude?

    Grip tape is a funny ******* to work with isn't it, it's PARTLY flexible, then just when you think it'll bend around something, it won't!

    not 100% sure if the grip tape it needed, or if it might feel slightly odd sometimes when driving, i guess it can wear down fairly fast anyway, so will probably stay.

    With all these little changes I'm REALLY looking forward to getting it out on track again soon :)
  38. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

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    [Jun 27, 2013]
    Special Timmy off here, one who wrapped his car.

    Jokes don't work so well when you need to explain them :(

    When I used to retape my skateboard decks I would use a hair dryer on the BACK of the grip tape (sticky side) which would give it good flex over the tails.
  39. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jun 28, 2013]
    where do you get that grip tape prawny? I used to use industrial stuff for floors etc.. Expensive and on a roll.
    badgerwagens footwell would benefit from some before its next outing in July :)
  40. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Jun 28, 2013]
    Skateboard shop I got mine from for my 205.

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