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Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Prawn, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. Rainbird
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    Rainbird Member

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    [Jun 22, 2013]
    Cool to see you're sorting the issue out, but maybe a tad silly for everyday road? Go big or go home, full on batmobile steez! :icon_thumright:
  2. Grale1
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    Grale1 Member

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    [Jun 22, 2013]
    Prawn I know it's a totally different car in shape to the A3's but have you ever looked a the lancia delta integrale's spoiler on the evo1 and evo2's, I know from experience that they work,

    just my 2 cents worth but I know nothing compared to you guys lol, its also adjusterable
  3. 666markyboy
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    666markyboy Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Page 100 moved ????
  4. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Why the crazy spoiler? :jester:

    Because race car :)

    Seriously though, if it does the job then definitely leave it on, but personally I wouldn't have it on whilst generally driving about on the road; is it easy to remove and refit?
  5. RaptorHunter
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    RaptorHunter New Member

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    We are even I broke 4 of and the 5th one I broke after I drove into a truck. But I believe there are more to break I am planing on restoring another A3, sometimes you can find stretches of road between holes in my country, and non visible super tall, concrete speed bumps.
  6. JNP
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    JNP Member

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    I love this thread....

    Long time listener, first time poster.
  7. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    imho, you should paint it orange and only use it for track days. Using those for a daily driver makes cars look like a shopping cart :)
  8. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    i don't know where you got the idea this is a daily driver, but I see your point dude, hence being unsure about it. I can remove it, and only leave a few tiny holes I can plug. It's only a tailgate at the end of the day and an s3 spoiler would cover the holes if I went down that direction too :)
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  9. Scullies
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    Scullies Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    WHAT? Is this not your daily drive? I thought you were cool like that :lmfao:
    Just Velcro that sucker on there :)
  10. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Prawny, this is a 100% thoroughbred race car now and aerodynamics are coming into play big time. A spoiler is needed, definitely. Evolution is and was always necessary.

    Can you do any experiments using an S3 spoiler? Obviously the S3 spoiler was designed for the 8L shape and will look more pleasing on the eye but at the end of the day you need something that will work and not just look pretty.

    I don't believe in having anything removable/attachable just for the track/road unless it's another set of wheels so ideally you want something that you like on the car ALL of the time.

    Great work as usual, I can't believe how far this car has come in the 2 years since we headed over for our Nurburgring trip... and I've still not been out in it :(
  11. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Thanks mate, that's the sort of constructive reply I was after :wub: back in the ko3S days, the car was slow enough not to worry too much about aero, as usually by the time you reached 120, you were back on the brakes fairly soon. Now with the added power, stiffness, adjustable suspension, and tyre progression, there are corners that we are talking well in excess of 100mph, and aero seems to matter more.

    Folly at Combe for example will probably be 115+ now easily, Craner curves at Dony was over 100, 110 on the clock around Schwedenkreuz on the ring last year etc etc.

    As you say, I'd rather have a solution that can remain on the car full time, as I don't like the idea of changing the balance of handling between road and track either.

    I knew this would be a love hate thing. It all comes down to whether or not it works I guess!

    S3 spoiler would be my preference visually for sure, but it has no vetical projection at all, just a 'roofline extension' piece really. It may well help air to part cleanly from the top of the roof, but I don't think it'd serve any gain beyond that.

    I'd like to go to an airfield day with a few higher speed corners and do a few runs both with, and then without the wing, to see if there's any noticably change. I did blitz it up to ~115 ish last night and back off quickly, and didn't experience any of the 'light' feeling I have done in the past, but that could be entirely a placebo so I won't go hailling it an instant success just yet!
  12. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    What about a modded S3 spoiler with either an added lip on the end (like an E46 M3) or raise/lower the height and angle of the spoiler?
  13. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    guerney (spelling)
  14. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Its a tad too wide imo, otherwise though it serves a very very good purpose and people will understand that.
    Its hard to make a car that never had a spoiler look good with a spoiler, its abit alien.

    Your other option, and prob more effective, woulde be to make a functional front splitter, flat underside, and a huge rear diffuser with some modding to the bumper. Its a bigger project though...
  15. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    I agree SK, could do with 2'' off either side ideally. May look into that at some point.

    Splitter and underside works are definitely next on the list, and as you say should give great results.
  16. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Do you know anyone whos handy with fibre glass or composite materials, could modify an s3 spoiler, adding more of an upward spoiler as opposed to it just being a roof line extension.
  17. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Sorting the underside and having a modded S3 spoiler may do 2 birds with 1 Johnny! Sorts the rear lightness and also keeps the looks.
  18. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    We have been discussing under car aero for some time but its a case of what comes first. The car is well sorted so the next step is AERO.
    <tuffty/> likes this.
  19. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    We had that thought underway a couple of months ago and ordered a bare fireglass S3 spoiler to modify in that manner. Unfortunately it did not turn up from the people in Poland who we ordered it from. Paypal to the rescue. The wing we have now was ordered shortly afterwards to continue with the experiments. Many more to come.
  20. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    My first opinion when I saw it was chav'ish, but then I thought it looks good actually, considering what this car is all about! Function over form though, does it actually work on your car?
  21. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Adding aero to a car that was never really designed for aero is always going to alter the way it looks...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Personally I like the way this is going... as Prawn has already stated its an experiment and as JoJo has said, function over form...

    <tuffty/>
    bigal 1 likes this.
  22. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Did Jardo spray the spoiler? :ninja:
    s3dave and superkarl like this.
  23. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    how will you gauge whats required in terms of Aero balance..
    You started at the back as its light at times yea? Aero wings = drag..

    Maybe some under car Diffuser antics if feasable may help.
    RobT has done a lot on his ibiza.. Maybe worth contacting him, as he researches the hell out of stuff and makes his own mods DIYer like yourselves.
  24. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Feel to be honest Bill, and road testing really.

    It's well known that stripped out hatch backs suffer from pretty dire weight distribution, and with nothing under the car airflow is going to be poor at best, creating rear end lift at speed, coupled with the ligthness we feel at high speeds. I'd like to add a front splitter for sure, but didn't want to go adding anything to the front without first at least doing something at the rear.

    Long term goal would be an S3 boot spoiler with a gurney lip moulded onto the trailling edge, and a nice splitter leading into a semi flat floor (exhaust left open due to heat) and diffuser setup that I'd like to make myself.

    Boot lids are cheap, and expendable, so for now and a bit of initial experimenting we thought we'd give this a shot purely to see if the difference can be felt.

    I know through Nige P's work on his golf that home made aero, if well thought out can have phenomenal results, it's just a case of creating something similar :)

    Which RobT do you mean Bill? on SCN? I'll go and have a search!
  25. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Drag with a wing is appreciated but we are looking for grip not the last handful of MPH. There are only four bolts holding it on so five mins and it can be taken off/on.
  26. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    You mention not adding to the front without adding to the rear first.

    I dont know if youre aware of how it works but the theory behind front splitters, proper ones, is that you reduce the amount of air entering the underneath the car in order to reduce air pressure there, to effectively suck, and push the car down, just like the principles of an aerofoil. The front splitter will have an effect on the whole car, not just the front end like it would appear. Sideskirts maximise the pressure difference, again affecting the whole car.
  27. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    I'm aware dude, have done much research into it.

    You're 100% right though in that it should act over the car as a whole, but adding a well designed and made front splitter without addressing anything at the rear at all will still increase front end grip more so than rear

    Obviously the ideal solution is to do the lot :) I think that'll be a winter project for me!
  28. Vorshprungdork
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    Vorshprungdork Active Member

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    I wouldn't have a problem witht he spoiler given the kind of car it is and it's functionlity. It's a race car not a show car and as you say even the standard S3 spoiler won't really do much. Does it adjust, if not could it be made to adjust, may be a idea hust to give it an added edge depending on circumstances?
    Prawn likes this.
  29. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Thanks for your positive remarks. If you go to top of page no. 3967 you will see how it adjusts. This is just the beginning of testing. All new to us as was the original project build.
  30. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Thanks dude. It does adjust yes :)

    If you look in this pic:

    [​IMG]

    You can see the rear support is on a slider. The wing has an aerofoil shape, being thicker in the middle, and a curved up lip at the back to act like a gurney type flap. It can be lifted up and down a bit to alter it's angle. I'm yet to do any testing on that.

    Just been for another little test run, and I do get a slight whistling from the spoiler (I assume) that starts around 115, and it fully audible at 120, Not a huge issue, but I'll try a run with the side plates removed to see if it's those or the wing itself.
  31. Vorshprungdork
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    Vorshprungdork Active Member

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Adjustable and everything = Because racecar, f*** anything else, IMHO of course.
    Prawn likes this.
  32. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    The square leading edge of the bracket's might be a cause of the whistle. With square edged roof bars you can get a whistle, but with aero ones, ie oval, the noise goes away. Lets see with testing.
  33. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    Don't know, but there might be a clue in this tea trolley thats bolted on to the back.[​IMG]
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  34. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 23, 2013]
    May be Porsche know something we don't. [​IMG]
  35. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 24, 2013]
    When did you learn how to post pics :laugh:

    i do like Jims Porsche. The tea tray rather suits it too. Looks like the black lip is an additional gurney type extension.
  36. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jun 24, 2013]
    yep.. SCN RobT
    ibiza sprint car... C'ship winning Sprint car on badger5 bodies :)
    long term mate of mine now..
    he's done some very trick stuff on suspension and aero so far...
  37. wild willy
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    wild willy Member

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    [Jun 24, 2013]
    I think it looks ok especially if it adds performance to the build. 9 times out of 10 these things don't look right but the car has the pedigree and has earned it. The car is the real deal and deserves a make over.
    The driver however may need some help.....Welcome to the official Gok Wan website Gokwan.com
    superkarl likes this.
  38. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Jun 24, 2013]
    Just extend the pedals and steering wheel so you can sit in the back of the car. That'll help the weight distribution ;)
  39. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    [Jun 24, 2013]
    You know what Fred, I think you've cracked it!

    I can go one better though.....

    [​IMG]

    Would never have crashed if I had had the Persian Prince in the back as Ballast!
  40. bigal 1
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    bigal 1 Active Member

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    [Jun 24, 2013]
    Here is one we trialled earlier.
    [​IMG]

    so nothing new then.

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