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Possible inherent 3dr 8P design flaw - Testers needed

Discussion in 'NHN Corner' started by NHN, Nov 29, 2009.

  1. NHN
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    Ok whilst in the throws of one of my mods or 10, I noticed some dampness in the bottom left corner of the door by the speaker, to my surprise when removed I found the rear of the bose speaker wet & condensation around the area, you can see where the speaker was fixed there are some fixture marks, had wetness round rear of this & over back of speaker, but gives you general idea where it was & the water dripped straight down through the middle of the hole as such.

    [​IMG]

    Now peaking inside the door I found there was a hole in the bottom of the door, intentional from audi I would say for drainage when rains etc & drops down through any small gaps in the seals around the window, trust me there are a number of gaps.

    Note courteousy pic of Khufu my partner in grime with some of this issue, so thanks to him.

    [​IMG]

    So on inspection with a torch & hosepipe, plus the missus assistance, I realised it was the top outer door seal that the windows closes against to attempt at sealing of any water, the seal as shown below.

    [​IMG],

    Basically we stuck the hosepipe at top of glass & watched the path of the water, which ran down the glass, through the top seal layer which has a hidden channel/path between the 2 seal layers & then the water runs long the inside of the seal between the 2 layers, then to the end & through what I consider to be a rather large gap in the corner where the seal meets the mirror edge/trim as below, thus this is directly above the hole in previous pic & the poxy speaker, well done audi, tools.

    [​IMG]

    Here you can also see there might be a small gap the lock end, so maybe the water drips down onto the lock area, also maybe causing a fault & possibly expenditure to us unbeknown owners, another cost due to crap audi design

    [​IMG]

    So after consulting the lovely lady & the parts bible, elsa & etka, I decided ok maybe new seal would be redesigned or longer, so got new seal & you're supposed to take the top of the door of, but found way round this to unclip the seal from a fixing hole hidden in the door itself, installed new seal, checked for gaps etc, low & behold same damn problem, so obviously its an inherent design flaw by audi.

    I get the idea to drain, ok no problem, good idea with the channel along the window seal to keep the rain of, but there should be at least a protector around the back of the speaker or sealed of encovement to stop any dripping of water & build up of condensation.

    This flaw would basically & potentially cost us as users a fair bit of dough to replace speakers/locks due to there negligence of design.

    So before I take audi by the nads & send of to them to resolve in germany I need some others to test this.

    Tested by Khufu, but yet to inspect the speaker, can anyone else do this & check the speaker, yes it requires some effort by you to check these things, but its not a hard job, it really isnt.

    I might stick a deflector to the top the speakers in both doors for any water dripping down, but thats not the point overall, I think this is a very poor design of the seals & drainage points.

    If they had made the seals with the 2 layers so when the window rolls up it pushes the 2 layers against eachother much tighter thus sealing from any rain, then this would have solved the problem overall

    I tested a theory I had, by sticking some sealant in the end point where the gap is, this stopped the water completely, but I foresee further issues with stagnant water in the channel, seals becoming dodgy over time with standing water etc etc, so not the best route, another option is to stick sealant in between the 2 layers of the seal to block the channel completely, something I will do if its completely neccessary, but want audis input 1st.

    So anyone up for this to test?
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
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  2. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details

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    What a good thread nige! I will do it, when I get my soundproofing stuff, which should be soon..
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  3. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    Nige
    If i park facing up hill after rain or the car wash the water pours out of the rear drain hole in the door. without a doubt the window seal is the culprit. thats why Audi fit a plastic sheet between the inside of the window and the speakers and leave drain holes in the doors. I cant believe Audi dont fit a plastic shield to the speaker. Even after maket speakers come with one !!
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
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  4. Scott
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    I'm not 100% clear of what the issue is from what you've posted. Are you saying that water shouldn't be "running" down the window and inside the door, and it is because the seal is inadequate? I've had my door card off quite a few times recently but I haven't had the speaker off. However there's a few things that I've noticed (which you probably know):

    1. most, if not all, of the clips which hold the door card on have some kind of seal to prevent moisture/water getting inside the car

    2. there are actually 3 holes iirc to allow water to drain out of the bottom of the door

    3. the door is very wet/damp inside, I know this as I removed the "door seal" (which has to be replaced when removed - be warned, as clips do break) I had the "door seal" only half clipped on and the rest taped and the foam on the inside of the door card was wet, which leads me to believe that it's a very important seal.

    4. it doesn't smell nice!

    On a side note, if you do remove the "door seal" please DON'T try sticking it back on somehow with broken clips, as I used some silicon seal to put it back on as I was in a rush, which worked fine in regards to keeping the wet out, but it completely changed the sound that the door made inside the car when it was closed and it sounded tinny. I changed to a new "door seal" and the sound was once again OK

    The reason for use of "" around door seal if because I have no idea what it's called. People have said door mould, door seal, door ......... even Audi don't know, but apparently it's classed as a seal.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
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  5. Khufu
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    The problem is there isn't a plastic sheet over the back of the speaker, the water tight seal is at the front of the speaker to stop is coming through into the trim area.
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  6. Scott
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    Aah, by this I think I understand the prob. I haven't had the speaker off before so I have no idea what's behind it.
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  7. NHN
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    Dude thats the issue here, the 8L had a plastic sheet which resembled a tesco carry bag, but the 8P hasnt got anything to protect the systems in the door itself, door module & connectors are on the door card side of the door chassis, so not effected by water, or shouldnt be, but the speaker rear is open to the elements as such interms of water coming through the drainage routes & the door lock has potential to get water in it, even though its fairly well sealed, but I have had that apart aswell for the same mod, water gets everywhere over time, sealed or not, so no doubt this is a flaw.

    The fix is so simple for them with there technological massive, I cant believe they didnt see this whilst testing for water tightness, really cant.

    I will however be testing some remedy's suggested by others, one involving a tupperware bowl, nice suggestion K, lol, another is the sealant route again but need to test bead widths & also hardness of the sealant, so the window doesnt stop through tightness of the seal against the glass, as the anti pinch system has a sensor so its a rather pedantic bit of research, but one I want to try out as audi will take weeks to work through this problem if not months or at all.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
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  8. Khufu
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    Khufu Active Member

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    I'll take box number 3 please!
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  9. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    You need to cut the t/ware bowl in half and create a hood over the speaker. It needs to breath into the door to get any bass. It will not work if you cover the back completely ... I expect you know that and i am missing the point again :)
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  10. Khufu
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    Khufu Active Member

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    hahaha, N and I were joking about that. Suggested Audi left speaker rear open to use door area as a sub box.
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  11. NHN
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    lol, no mate you got me.

    Tupperware, lol, was a joke tbh, I had other ideas to redirect the flow that wouldnt even be part of the speaker assembly, but have to watch the window position when its down aswell.

    But yeah the speaker needs to breath as such, lol.
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  12. RonS3
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    I was suprised to find a wet speaker too, I only had to remove it for access whilst replacing my s3 mirrors after they were stolen and it wasn't a) the kind of thing I was expecting on a six month old car or b) the kind of thing I was expecting from a supposed quality brand. It was the passenger door that was wet, drivers side was ok
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
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  13. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    I wasnt joking !:faint:
    If you buy a set of after market Pioneer speakers they come with half a tuper ware bowl that acts as a rain canopy !!
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  14. NHN
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    I would test both sides again as I did & then check the speakers, as both sides have same fixings etc in doors, they would both react the same fella, but I do appreciate your post as it throws weight behind my findings, much appreciated. :icon_thumright:

    Show me the model mate just out of interest.
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  15. mattandrew
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    Mr Hobdens feet appear in another photo but it does make a change to see your toes/feet covered up in your pictures.
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  16. NHN
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    Its my trademark as you know all to well, lol, just tad cold this time of year now, well here anyway
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  17. NHN
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    To update, I have been in contact with my audi dealer to see the route to report to audi uk & they are having a master tech read over my thread & then advise of the route taken to have audi investigate, as said it could have an effect in the long run on the lock or speaker & be a cost to us owners, update when I get one.

    In the meantime I'm gonna host a tupperware party to buy a bowl to use as a deflector :undwech:
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  18. Khufu
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    Khufu Active Member

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    Anne Summers parties are more fun....
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  19. NHN
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    Only on a thursday.
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  20. Khufu
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    Khufu Active Member

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    had a look at 8L A3, seems they had better protection for the speaker:

    [​IMG]
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  21. stokeballoon
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  22. Felix A3
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    Are you sure the speaker isn't waterproof?
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  23. NHN
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    Yes brings back memories of my S3 now, goes in corner to cry, lol

    Very interesting reads, simple fix aswell, pity this isnt as simple a fix, needs a seal redesign or speaker protector somehow & maybe door lock.

    Nah has a grilled rear mate, so water can get in, also when I get chance to get pic, the speaker when screwed to the door has a foam seal to I guess sound proof against the metal, looks like the water has ingressed into this foam & its starting coming away, so I'll stick a bead of sealant round it when refixing, also maybe some water stains on the speaker cone, its quite literally a shambles of a design tbh
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  24. kaz219
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    GTI Jazz Blue had the same prob as did I with mine - water does defo get inside the door somehow as my MDF speaker ring was a bit wet when i took them out of the car to sell.

    Im pretty sure its from where you point out but i got a waterproof membrane for my speakers (suggested by GTI Jaz Blue) and it didnt really bother me too much after that.

    Its definitly a design flaw.
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  25. NHN
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    Got any pics of membrane?
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  26. kaz219
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  27. GConn
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    A question...Why 3dr defect? Is the sportback any different? Thanks
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  28. Khufu
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    mmmm, i never actually noticed he had put 3door :banghead:

    I'm sure this will affect the front doors of both models, are the rear speakers in the doors of the sportback too?
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  29. NHN
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    Thanks mate, I'll bear that in mind kaz, only thing is material fixes tend to over time become worn due to the elements where as a hood as such or some hard lastic would divert away, but I'll check that stuff out for longevity as such.

    There's always one, lol, no doubt the SB is the same I reckon tbh knowing door designs, but as I have 3dr I didnt wanna make everyone crap themselves just yet until tested by an SB owner, cue Nate!!!!

    You can test with a hosepipe of jug of water, see if it comes out of bottom of door, if so then check the rear of speakers.
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  30. GConn
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    I just felt the need to ask :laugh: The answer is pretty much obvious. I can't check as it doesn't rain too ofren here. Sorry :eiertritt:
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  31. Khufu
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    Think I hate you now . . . . :moa:
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  32. NHN
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    Lazy git, just get a bottle of water & test it, if it bothers you that much use evian, lol
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  33. GConn
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    Wasting water is not considered wise here :p
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  34. GConn
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    Just tried it and yes, there is water coming out of a small hole at the back of the door. German engineering they say...
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  35. NHN
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    Well you should do this test with door card of & check speaker, thing is even if doesnt get speaker then, at varying angles that the car is at, would determine how the water flows if you get me, on an even surface it may flow ok, but slightest angle in the rain then all over rear of speaker, thanks for testing the throughout of flow, now how about the door card of & chekcing speaker with pics, this would help us with the audi uk/italy claim.
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  36. NHN
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    You're welcome to bottle it & reuse if you like :puke2:
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  37. fizz
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    Had my SB rear drivers side off last weekend as was replacing the weather strip. The speaker wasnt wet at all.

    [​IMG]
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  38. GConn
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    This is getting dangerous for my car....I honestly don't have the skills to take anything off without breaking something. :sorry:

    I can see fizz has uploaded a picture for the SB. Fizz, I suppose no protective film existed behind the speaker, so if this is the case, the speaker could get wet under certain circumstances, right?
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  39. NHN
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    Thats the rear door & the seal goes further along, given no mirror in the way to stop it right above the speaker & yes it would get wet in certain circumstances, cause nothing is diverting the water or protecting the speaker, as said before way to go audi crap design.

    Fizz, thanks for image & testing, but get a better camera :undwech:
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  40. fizz
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    lol, i remember you wanted a pic, however forgot the digi cam at home so just used crappy moby cam.
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