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PORSCHE Cayanne BRAKE Conversion - RS4 HEL Brake Lines routing question?

maikysupra Nov 19, 2013

  1. maikysupra

    maikysupra Active Member

    As I had some free time after VERY long time last Sunday (father of 2year old twins:) so I decided to give it a go and finally swap the brakes. I've had all the parts lying around for some time now so had pretty much a solid idea of what I was going to need.. Some pictures prior to install:

    DSC03150.jpg IMG_1377.jpg DSC03144.jpg DSC03114.jpg

    I've been weighting every single component so I can compare the weight of this conversion to the OEM brakes (lots of people say this is lighter then OEM) but although I still haven't weighted the OEM components, I'm willing to bet my next months salary (incl. Bonus) that's simply not true. Perhaps the BREMBO calipers are a bit lighter than OEM, but the ML55 rotors (Brembo) needed for this swap are just monstrously heavy. The AUDI OEM disc felt like a feather in my hand after holding the ML55... Anyways, will update you with detailed comparison in a short future hopefully.

    Here's what it used to look like with OEM brakes on RS4 19" wheel (sorry for the crappy pictures, will post some better ones in due course)
    DSC03158.jpg DSC03160.jpg

    Here's one during the install:

    and two more crappy ones ofter finishing the passenger side:
    IMG_1387.jpg IMG_1388.jpg

    As I run out of time, weather & light (short days) I only managed to finish the passenger side, so the other side will need to wait till I make some time again..

    Just a few reflections on the install:

    The main thing that really surprised me was that the the ML55 AMG disc's retaining screw hole didn't line up with my AUDI's hub one (don't remember anyone mentioning this on the other forums I've read) so it was a pain to install as the wheel bolts wouldn't go all the way in to hold the disc tightly in place, hence I was also unable to use a DTI to measure the run-out of the disc.. So I'm going to attempt to drill one out using the old disc as a template...

    In terms of looks, the ML55 disc's hub is slightly larger then OEM. The RS4 alloy would run smoothly into the OEM disc before, now there is a small step where the alloy touches the disc (you can see this on the last picture above) and to me it's like a 2inch wart on Angelina Jolie's nose...

    However the biggest concern is that I actually cannot make my mind whether I really like the look of those Ferrari red calipers on my Audi or not. One moment I like it (probably 5year old within:), another I feel like it looks as something out of a chav tuner magazine... Let me know what you guys think!

    The actual question I have is whether someone would happen to know how to route and where to attach the RS4 brake lines as they look a bit on a long side to me, but then, I only spend like a half a minute trying to work it out before I called it a day.... The following two pictures should show it clearly:
    DSC03163.jpg DSC03164.jpg

    I'd also like to say big Thanks to a member Alex (Ajax1976) for sharing his wisdom and experience which saved me lots of time and effort. Cheers mate!
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
    Big Al, ScottD3 and V6 Quatt like this.
  2. V6 Quatt

    V6 Quatt Well-Known Member

    amazing work, looking good....Just ordered my callipers the same

    What size are the Discs?

    How much did it cost for the discs (pair)

    .....So will be interesting to see developments. What's the braking like? now you have converted
  3. adcooper

    adcooper Audi A6 C6 Avant 3.0tdi Le Mans S-Line

    Again amazing mate so want to upgrade mine!

    Have you upgraded the rears too?

    Like you say not sure on the red, think black or silver for me.
  4. maikysupra

    maikysupra Active Member

    Thanks guys!

    The discs are OEM Brembo Mercedes ML55 AMG (W163); Year 99 to 05. The diameter is 345mm. Brembo Part No. 09.7606.11. You can get them from many places, initially I was planning to get them of eBay for around £138, but unbelievably I got them of Amazon for less them £100 (both sides). Happy to PM you a link if interested!

    The pads are Ferodo premier. You want to buy pad for the 17Z calipers as the 18Z ones would overhang a bit as they are made for a larger rotor.. It was difficult to find a good quality pads for a reasonable price and again Amazon proved to be the cheapest option here...

    The RS4 brake lines from HEL were a pain to get hold of as I didn't want the banjo fittings (which don't work really well) but rather the proper 90degree bend (will post a picture of those later on). Had to wait almost 3weeks for them fo be made and cost me £50. Can also PM a link of the source if interested. PS. Still need to make sure they are not too long though!

    The bolts came from Poland (on advice of Ajax1976, thanks again mate!) for less them £30 incl. very fast delivery delivery...

    The calipers are of eBay, but all the seals, nipples, both bridges and most of the pistons were brand new (as the old ones were shot). I had the calipers sandblasted and powdercoated by the only shop I could find in a 50mile radius from where I live. They didn't do a great job as the clear coat (for some reason) wrinkled on them (you might see it from the pictures) and they didn't mask properly either (meaning I had to spend almost 4hours cleaning the piston chambers with thinners afterwards). It also took them extra 3 weeks then promised (4weeks in total) and the owner must be the rudest guy in England...I ended up paying £50 for the **** job (instead of £60) as the only other option the idiot was giving me was to sandblast them and give them back to me in the condition they arrived... Nevermind I wasted 4weeks,£12in heat resistant stickers & lost of miles and time in driving.. Long story short, this is what happens when there is not much competition around!

    Anyways, I can't comment on the Braking power as yet as I still need to do the driver's side. As I said in my post, I run out of time and good will on Sunday so I'm planning on finishing the other side in a next week or so.

    I haven't touched the rears yet, but thats something I also want to do before my next MOT in April. I wanna convert to S4 300mm rotors, but haven't reserched all the parts needed for this yet.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
    V6 Quatt and Big Al like this.
  5. JimmyH

    JimmyH Active Member

    Excellent write up and good work.
    V6 Quatt likes this.
  6. ajax1976

    ajax1976 Well-Known Member

    Glad you finally got round to doing them, looks like a good job!!

    With regard to the retaining screw, I personally wouldn't bother as they usually seize anyway. The person who worked out that ML discs had the correct offset, stud pattern and a hub diameter that's workable was doing pretty well as it was, I don't suppose a silly locating screw was a big worry to him(or me).
    I find the best thing is the plastic screw in dowel thing in the cars tool kit, I bought an extra 2 from EBay. With 3 of them in place they locate everything while the wheel is off and allow you to effectively slide the wheel on and off without the threat of catching the caliper and damaging the paint, simple, cheap but great solution.

    I too was a bit concerned about the routing of the brake pipe but I checked with others and mine was the same as theirs(and yours). It's something I always check when I have the wheels off and I've never noticed any damage or wear yet so pretty sure it'll be fine.

    The S4 rears are a doddle in comparison, contact guys who are breaking B6 or B7 S4s. Much cheaper than individual listings on EBay for the bits.
    maikysupra and V6 Quatt like this.

    ANDYTQ Well-Known Member

    As ajax said above,as for weights people are comparing weights between thge 320 mm disc set up off se like mine or dtm models,so they are pretty heavy anyway ,my new discs were heavier but calipers were much lighter than originals,more weight can be saved if the two piece giro discs are fitted ,enjoy.cheers Andy
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
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  8. maikysupra

    maikysupra Active Member

    As a few people PM'ed me regarding the Part numbers of individual parts, I thought I would just list it here for anyone who might want to do this swap or just rebuild their callipers in a future.

    Please remember that all this parts are for BREMBO 18Z Cayenne/Q7/Touareg calipers, obviously some of the parts are interchangeable with 17Z but you will need to do your own research to make sure which are and which are not.

    Brembo Bleed nipples (2per caliper): Brembo Part no. is 98.8249.20 / AUDI Part.No is 8A0 615 273

    Brembo Bridge Pipes (1per caliper): Brembo Part no. is 98.8249.10 / AUDI Part.No is 7LO 615 701 A

    Brembo Dust Seals (6per caliper in 3 different sizes): Brembo Part no. 98.5032.40 / AUDI Part No. 7L6 698 471 B

    Brembo Fluid Seals (6per caliper in 3 different sizes): Brembo Part no. N/A / AUDi Part no. N/A

    Brembo ML55 AMG Disc (1per side): Brembo Part no.

    Brembo Caliper Pin Kit: Brembo Part. No. 98.8248.40

    Brembo Brake Pads (for 17Z caliper due to better fit): Brembo Part No. P 85 069 (see pictures below for comparison)

    Brembo Brake Pad wear sensor (1 per caliper): Brembo Part no. 98.5031.40 / AUDI Part.No. 7L0 907 637

    I listed the OEM Brembo parts, but obviously you can buy different brands as (financially) convenient..
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  9. maikysupra

    maikysupra Active Member

    Here's a diagram of the Brembo ML55 disc I used:

    IMG_0225.jpg IMG_0226.jpg

    and here dimensions of the 17Z and 18Z brake pads for comparison. As you can see the 17Z's (on top) height is 99.1 vs 106.3 of the 18Z (bottom)

    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
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  10. V6 Quatt

    V6 Quatt Well-Known Member

    Thanks Maiky Did they not do drilled / Groove discs for the fitting of ML55?
  11. maikysupra

    maikysupra Active Member

    They did, but not by Brembo...

    These are by Mintbitz (a make I'd never heard of before):


    EBC Ultimax:

    If Brembo did drilled or grooved discs for ML55, than I would have most likely gone with them, but just wasn't happy spending my cash on the above brands to be honest... I'm sure other people think otherwise!
    V6 Quatt likes this.
  12. maikysupra

    maikysupra Active Member

    So finally got around weighting the old OEM brakes for a comparison sake:

    OEM AUDI A4 B7 Convertible Front Caliper (incl. brake line): 3.555kg
    OEM AUDI Caliper Carrier : 1.648kg
    OEM Brake Slash Guard (incl. bolts): 0.324kg
    OEM Caliper Carrier bolts (one side - two bolts): 0.182kg
    OEM BREMBO Disc (new): 8.9kg
    TOTAL weight of the OEM brakes (one side): 14.6kg

    BREMBO 18Z complete Front Caliper (excl. brake line): 4.548kg
    Ferodo Brake Pads (one side - two pads): 1.857kg
    Caliper Bolts (One side - two bolts): 0.260kg
    Brembo ML55 disc (one side - one disc): 11.3kg
    HEL Brake line (one side - one line): 0.140kg
    TOTAL Weight of the conversion (one side): 18.1kg

    So this conversion adds 3.5kg of unsprung weight per side to your car...
    Big Al, ScottD3 and V6 Quatt like this.
  13. AudiB7Jay

    AudiB7Jay Active Member TFSI Owners Group Team Sepang Audi S1 Audi A4 saloon S-line owners group Team Aruba Blue TDi Manual

    Rude to ask but what's the total of this conversion in £ ? :) I was looking at s4 fronts and rear conversion that's all
  14. maikysupra

    maikysupra Active Member

    That really depends on how much you spend on the calipers and mainly whether you decide to rebuild them as well or not. There are two types of seals per piston (fluid & dust) each costing over £9. Being 6pots, you might potentially need 24 seals for both calipers. Bridges are £30 each. The whole conversion costed me just short of £800... Don;t want to discourage anyone here but to be completely honest, If I were to do it again, I would personally choose the OEM RS4 calipers route.

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