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Porsche 312mm brake set up

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by niallh, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. niallh
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    niallh Member

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    Just wondering if anyone who had done this up grade could give me a rough estimate on how much it cost to put together.

    Got a 323mm LCR brembo set up sat in my garage but they wont fit underneath my current 17's and Im reluctant to change wheels

    Also much prefer the idea of £40 for some disks instead of £150 seen as though id never be putting the car on track, just road use
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  2. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    Look at westys build thread, hes done this upgrade mate. Also what wheels you got? S3 17" alloys should clear the lcr disks and calipers.
    #2
  3. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    All show no go.

    LCR setup is a million times better than Porsche calipers on 312's.

    LCR Brembo's fit under standard Leon Cupra wheels; and Prawn runs with 17's. Why won't they fit? What wheels do you use?
    #3
  4. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    Ever personally tested the Porsche 312s before slating them? Because Westys car with those fitted did perfectly fine at Bedford when i was in the car.
    #4
  5. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    Have you ever personally tested them? LCR Brembo's are unquestionably better than the 312mm Porsche setups, I don't know why you'd even comment anything to the contrary.

    I've never driven them because everybody I have ever spoken to says they are crap compared to LCR Brembos. And as such I don't know anybody with them fitted to their cars.

    If you want Porsche calipers then do it properly like the ones fitted to Pierres (Frenchman) car -

    [​IMG]
    #5
  6. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    here we go
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  7. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    And here comes Jason.s's boyfriend handbag at the ready. :p

    I'm right; just accept it and we'll all be friends. :)
    #7
  8. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    I think you all need to chill the f**k out.

    Which porsche calipers are we talking here? the OP has not given enough information for this debate to be taking place....

    Jardo is assuming the far more common porsche boxster rear caliper onto 312mm disc conversion, and in that case, he is entirely correct, they are not worth the space they take up and shouldn't ever be so much as considered.

    Jason and Dani are thinking of the very uncommon porsche boxster front caliper onto 312mm discs, as fitted to Westys car which is arguably much much better, but something that's hardly ever done, as with all due respect, it's a little pointless.

    It costs as much as a 330mm 996 setup, or a 323mm LCR brake setup, but gives you less pad area, smaller thinner discs and a messy unswept area on the disc due to a miss match in band width. The smaller pad area isn't great news, less radial stopping power (although in percentage terms that's minimal - about 3%), and the thinner discs won't cope with heat as well either.

    I think the OP needs to give more info as to WHY his wheels won't fit.

    Radially, pretty much ALL 17's will fit over LCR 323's, the only clash tends to be the offset of wheels vs discs, with the calipers hitting the spokes.

    Depending on the wheel style, this might actually be WORSE on the porsche / 312mm setup, it really depends where the tight spot is. If the tight spot is towards the inner side of the caliper, going to a smaller disc will make it worse!

    Offset wise, there's really very little difference between the 3 setup's mentioned.

    I agree though, if you want porsche brakes, 996 fronts like the ones I fitted to Frenchmans car above are the way to go. But as you already have LCR brembos I'd really focus on trying to get them to fit.
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  9. niallh
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    niallh Member

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    Now now people. I'm not entirely fussed about who thinks they're better than LCR set up or not. I was just enquiring about cost as an alternative to the LCR. I'm currently running 288mm on my a3 and jumped ahead of myself and bought the LCR kit. So anything will most definitely be an improvement.

    Im running Porsche reps at the moment. The inner barrel of the wheel is quite chunky for a 17 so don't want any clearance issues when using a 323mm set up.
    #9
  10. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    Not even on my death bed with seconds to live. Prawn being right about probably talking about different setups but even if you were talking about Westys setup as i was i clearly have more experience being a passenger on track than you reading tripe on forums from fellow warriors.

    Peace out motherf.....
    #10
  11. niallh
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    niallh Member

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    To reply to prawn. I would be looking to use front calipers, definitely not rears, I'm sure that's what Frenchman is running. The post was just to gather if getting the whole setup was a similar cost to see if someone with a Porsche set up would swap with my LCR set up and neither of us be losing out financially.
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  12. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    lmfao jason.

    im laughing my head off at the dislikes :lmfao:
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  13. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    Unbelievable.

    Being a passenger gives you no idea what so ever about the performance of the brakes; it's no better than me hearing reviews off friends. It's still second hand information.

    The only person here that I know of who has owned both sets and can talk with any authority is Prawn; and he stuck with LCR's because of their cost and performance. Having personally driven a car with LCR Brembo's they get my vote as well, because I can't see how you would possibly need any more power; and with appropriate discs, pads and fluid they do not fade or deteriorate under any circumstances.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
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  14. Alex C
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    Alex C Active Member

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    Westy's Porsche brakes and the LCR kit have the same piston sizes. Main difference is that the LCR are two piece whereas the porsche are one piece? Much of a muchness i would have thought
    #14
  15. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Yes, but he also has thinner discs, smaller discs, and a smaller pad area, making them far from ideal, plus the half inch of unswept pad area on the inner edge of the disc would drive me mad!
    #15
  16. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Frenchman is running 996 911 C2 front calipers, bigger than the boxster fronts. Those caliper part numbers are 996.351.425 & 996.351.426. they are found on Carrera 2's (Black) / Carrera 4's (SIlver) and Boxster S fronts (Red)

    I know this, because I bought them :laugh:

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...-porsche-996-front-brakes-small-write-up.html

    The ones you're thinking of are from the normal 986 boxster like Westys, they are geometrically identical to the boxster rears, and those are the carriers you would need, but they have larger pistons which make them work better.

    You've still not said what wheels you're running, or where the clearance issue is though.....
    #16
  17. niallh
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    niallh Member

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    I did mention this further up prawn. Was probably missed inbetween the debate
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  18. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    Have you bolted them up; have you checked if they fit or not?

    As Prawn says, radially they will fit within almost any 17" wheels so the part you are worried about isn't a concern. You need to be worried about the caliper hitting the spoke; which is simply a case of fitting spacers.

    #18
  19. sandwich1987
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    sandwich1987 Member

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    Is the standard 312 discs the only ones that can be used with 986 front calipers or is that just dependent on the correct carriers?
    #19
  20. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    technically you can use whatever you want if you have carriers made to suit.
    i think if you use 323 lcr discs for example you could prob use the 312 carriers but space the lot out.
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  21. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Sorry mate, I missed that bit!
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  22. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    My Porsche reps cleared the 323mm Brembo's with no spacers, they only had 5mm clearance mind, plus mine were the 19" variety.

    [​IMG]
    #22
  23. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    Just be a man and get some Cayenne/GT2's ;)
    #23
  24. niallh
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    niallh Member

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    Ill check the disk and caliper in the wheel again tonight, my concern is that the barrel is very close to the calliper, the spokes clear the caliper fine and I'm running 20mm spacers up front as it is. My concern was because if I damage the alloy and it rubs against the caliper then I'll be a bit stuck.

    Im looking to get some PCD adapters beginning of next year and get some genuine Porsche wheels on, its just the LCR's have been sat for a few months now and im itching to fit them.

    Also Jojo, those wheels dwarf the brembos, but does look pretty good
    #24
  25. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    I have Boxster fronts .351.421 & 422 are the part numbers. They have 36 & 40mm pistons the same as the LCR ones. The standard Boxster disc is only 298mm in diameter which is why there is the unswept area on the 312mm discs.

    I fitted these due to several reasons:

    1 - I could increase my breaking performance but keep the discs/pads cheap. Plain 312mm discs can be got for £30 a disc
    2 - The callipers only cost me £180 as they weren't a popular option for strapping onto this chassis (probably due to all the forum bashing they get!). I agree that by the time I'd had them refurbed and I'd bought all the bits I needed that the price was similar to that of the LCR setup.

    Now I don't do many track days and neither do most people on this forum who want a brake upgrade. But the track days I have done I've never warped a disc and the only time I've suffered from brake fade was when I was running crappy fluid. At my last track day outing at Bedford Autodrome I was lapping as fast as 2 other S3 owners from this here forum. One of those owners being Stacey who as most of you know has a BT setup and massive Cayenne 6 pots. The other being Tam who has the LCR setup. Out of the 3 of us Stacey was the only one who warped a disc on track and for those of you who want to know the price of replacement discs on the Cayenne setup, I suggest asking Stacey once he's stopped crying ;)

    I have also driven Tam's car so I have had a comparison of both brake setups (before anyone has another dig).

    If I knew then what I know now I'd probably have gone for the LCR setup but only because it would have worked out a similar price and looked slightly nicer without the unswept disc/pad area and nothing to do with performance.

    I'm getting a bit tired of the bashing that seems to be going on at the moment, people shouting out about what's best and don't do this and that. It is true that simple physics state that the LCR setup is slightly better performance wise then the boxster setup due to the larger disc but I don't think it's that noticeable on the road! At the end of the day the carriers, piston size, braded lines are all the same and we all know that you can make any brake system a lot better by your choice of pad and fluid.

    At the end of the day the Boxster upgrade is still a worth while upgrade. It seems to stop my 300bhp ton and a half car well enough for road and amateur track days. If you can get the Boxster setup at a real good price and it doesn't require new seals and a powdercoat (I could have just painted mine and bolted them on) then don't be afraid to go for it, and don't feel like it's a bad choice because others on here have slated it. It works.
    #25
  26. 16Klappe
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    16Klappe Princess Slayer

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    Good write up Westy, sorry if it seemed like I was bashing YOUR brakes I wasn't at all. My confusion was more that I couldn't see any benefit to swapping a set of LCR's for a setup like yours. Just seems a bit pointless.

    As a bit of information to the OP, he might want to just check out eBay because LCR discs have come right down now. Drilled and grooved cheapies are £70 now, and the rears are £30 upwards. Have a look at this thread - http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...l-a3-s3-owners-other-golf4-platform-cars.html

    Which will cover everything you should need regarding specs and fitment. Good luck.

    :)
    #26
  27. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Yeah that would be madness if you're already in possession of a set of LCRs!
    #27
  28. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics

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    I think we should all get together and use Audrey as a test car and put every break set up on her and see which is better with some proper facts and figures.
    #28
  29. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Audrey needs a great big anchor out the back of it, not Brembos ;)
    #29
  30. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics

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    That's why it be a good test.
    Get some proper weight behind them brakes.

    But while you are all there with your car in bits and no brakes, I can drive off in to the sun set with a boot full of breaks. :)
    #30
  31. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    Yeah that'd happen if you use the 1 piece pattern discs. They'd be heavier too. He should get the ECS 2 piece ;)
    #31
  32. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    Or just take up my fantastic offer of genuine ones lol. Tam also mentioned on that day he started to fade his LCR Brembos quite early in the day but just went out and smashed it anyway lol.
    #32
  33. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    Yeah or do that! Didn't make much difference price wise to get discs here and the weight savings help.
    #33
  34. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Active Member

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    Have got to admit that I have got the cheapest r32 discs on mine that I could find at the time which was ebc plain discs @ £125 ish iirc, which as far as I know and from searching are no longer available due to people having the same issue I have with them

    I will be looking at some form of 2 piece set up next or changing set up, as much as I love them I hadn't really factored in pad and disc prices when I went for this upgrade which I have to say only cost me £20 to go from boxster rears on the 325mm discs to the cayenne Calipers, lines, ebc discs and oem pads which is a real bargin and has served me well although now it is really hurting my bank balance getting uprated pads and discs as kindly mention by Westy lol

    On another note I must have been braking heavier than the two other S3's to empty 2-3 litres of my oil from the sump up to my catch can ;)
    #34
  35. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    This is something else that everyone seems to forget. Everybody brakes differently and this can have a huge effect on how effective your setup is.
    #35
  36. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    They were pretty strong even on the current setup. Having some uprated pads and discs on there it`ll be pretty crazy lol
    #36
  37. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    Yeah and all the talk about a long pedal? Bleed them properly and they're fine!
    #37
  38. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    This was my main point westy, people were arguing for the Porsche setup, when the Lcr brakes are technically better, and he already owns a set.

    Im not saying your brakes are bad at all, but the only reason I can see for going for them is if go can get them cheaper than an Lcr setup. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense. As you said yourself, had you realised how the costs would build up your have done things differently yourself.

    There seems to be a lot of arguing on all forums lately, everyone is so quick to jump and accuse. I don't get it :(
    #38
  39. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    For some it's probably so they can say they have Porsche brakes haha
    #39
  40. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Moderator Moderator

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    There are alot of theorist's on here of late. "my mate said " and " i saw on another forum"
    I have Brembo gt jnr kit on mine... same as LCR i think?
    My fronts are shocking to be fair. Ive looked at porsche set ups... R32 set ups... but all i hear is LCR is king. So ive saved my money and will work with what i have. Trying new pads and fluid shortly... Just hope they work as well as everybody says they do.
    #40

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