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Please Help - My Car Is Bust

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Iggu, Mar 8, 2009.

  1. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Mar 8, 2009]
    Please have a look at these videos (not very good quality but good enough to see the problem).

    Is this clutch slip ? I've never experienced it before but from what I'm reading this is a likely candidate for my problem.

    Some facts:
    1. There are no fault codes on my Vagcom (no misfires or boost problems)
    2. It only happens in 4th gear and sometimes 5th
    3. It only happens when I gun it in 4th between 3000 and 4000 rpm
    4. Its worse when the car is cold
    5. The revs build up as usual and then speed up (with no increase in speed) before pausing and building again.
    6. The car drives totally normally otherwise
    7. Its getting worse ....

    http://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll36/booth1042/?action=view&current=MOV00187.flv

    http://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll36/booth1042/?action=view&current=MOV00188.flv
    #1
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  3. Whiteatom
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    Whiteatom Member

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    [Mar 8, 2009]
    Just posted the same problem , sure it is clutch slipping , mine does it in 3rd and 4th.

    What year is your car ? How many miles it done ?
    #2
  4. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Mar 8, 2009]
    June 2007
    21000.
    Seems odd that the clutch catches the revs again though. I'm not sure. Does yours do the same as this ?
    #3
  5. JohnS3
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    JohnS3 Active Member

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    [Mar 8, 2009]
    Mmm, clutch slip on mapped cars. I'll be following this with interest.
    #4
  6. Sohrob
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    Sohrob Member

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    [Mar 8, 2009]
    yes Iggu- do a search you will see some previous posts by myself.

    I had it replaced under warranty but it was exactly the same symptoms,i bet you it wont do it with the std map aswell.
    #5
  7. Whiteatom
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    Whiteatom Member

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    [Mar 8, 2009]
    Yes does the same but not as bad at the moment, I only have GIAC Hammer map, no other mods.
    Mine is March 08 , 7k miles
    [​IMG]
    #6
  8. DeckedS3
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    DeckedS3 Active Member

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    This happens to my mates Cupra (remapped) It does it even when back in standard mode though. He left it a few months on stock map, now it's better.... but he's said it was exactly the same as in this clip.

    Edit: here is a clip
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FCPvA90vQY
    #7
  9. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    Mine doesn't do it in stock mode - which convinces me it is the torque from the remap buggering the clutch.
    Its going to mean I "have to" upgrade to a Sachs clutch and go Revo Stage 2+ I think.
    Every cloud has a silver lining ....
    :arco:
    #8
  10. DeckedS3
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    DeckedS3 Active Member

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    I spoke to my mate and changed my post.....
    It still does it but it's no where near as bad. I included the clip. He also thinks it's clutch.
    #9
  11. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    Thanks mate. Just spoke to Shaun at AmD and he watched my clip on here and said its clutch for sure. Quite common across all VAG cars apparently so it doesn't surprise me to hear about the SEAT.
    Booked it in for a Sachs upgrade and Stage 2+ so its not all bad.
    #10
  12. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    Had same problem with a MK5 Gti (remapped).

    It was the Dual mass flywheel that had gave up.
    The clutch was Ok.
    I had it replaced under warranty and it was fine after that.

    Good luck
    Paul
    #11
  13. tobycruse
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    tobycruse Member

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    I find it amazing that the VAG arn't really addressing the clutch/flywheel issue. Apparently the clutch/flywheel set-up in the S3 is the same as used in the Mk5 Gti. So add 60bhp more you are getting close to its limit. Remap it for over 300bhp and its doomed. Not much tolerance if you ask me.
    #12
  14. leighharris
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    leighharris Member

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    I'm sure VW/Audi will argue that they don't need any more tolerance - as far as they're concerned it shouldn't be getting remapped.

    The Diesel SEAT Ibiza's are in the same boat - the clutches on the FR and Cupra models aren't really happy with a remap unless the torques very carefully controlled
    #13
  15. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    Ditto the fuel pump.

    The video's above are exactly what I was suffering nearly a year ago now, and because my car had only done 11k miles people thought I was crying wolf.

    These cars, (in my opinion) have been pushed just a bit too far using the standard parts bin components. Once we start adding our own tinsel its not long before the OE bits give way. Mine was clutch when it went, they made no mention of the DMF, although my rear diff was also leaking.

    Ditto the spark plugs - they last 60k miles sir. No they dont. NGK Iridiums to the rescue. Audi service departments biggest failing is the fact they don't believe their parts are failing unless they can muster an error code whilst the car is sat still in the workshop. Considering they are moving at pace towards a prestige sports brand (R8's RS6, TT_RS etc... they REALLY need to raise their game. Thank God for quality independent VAG service centres - it is all that gives me any faith in the brand.
    #14
  16. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    dont like the sound of that this thread has seriously put me off a remap now DAMN ??
    #15
  17. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    To put it in perspective, my car is pushing out 344 lb/ft and 342 bhp and has been round the Nurburgring Nordschleife over 20 times, done 2 Oulton Park track days, 2 at Anglesey Circuit and has been driven hard on the road every day.

    That isn't too bad for a standard clutch in my opinion.
    #16
  18. klauster
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    klauster Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    I'm not sure Audi would have tested the car remapped and driven like that, or would they have?
    #17
  19. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    I doubt it very much. From what I've read (been reading a lot on this the last few days for obvious reasons) the whole array of VAG cars have equally "weak" clutches (SEAT and Audi perhaps more than the others). When I say "weak" I mean unable to handle 40% more torque than the factory tune provides. I'm sure in stock form the standard clutch could cope with hard driving all day long.
    #18
  20. dgannon
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    dgannon Dolphin Grey 2007 S3

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    Mine just started slipping a week ago. It's had an RSD map probably producing around 300-310bhp. I only notice the slip in 5th or 6th gear and occassionally 4rd and 4th too...

    It's having a clutch/flywheel replaced under warranty no problem!! from what i've read, i'm hoping this will be a sachs assembley as i'm stuffed if i need to foot the bill for sorting it in another 6 months :(

    Dave
    #19
  21. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    Not when you put it like that.
    Sounds like its had a little bit of a workout!

    Must admit, I would be VERY dissapointed if the std clutch could not stand up to a Stage 1 remap though.

    But there is a definate question over the robustness of the Clutch/DMF throughout the VAG stable.

    Musnt grumble, mines Ok for now.

    Paul
    #20
  22. mhill
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    mhill Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 9, 2009]
    Looks like a DMF problem to me, as said above Seat clutches are pants my Ibiza was mapped to 180bhp with a little over 300lbf of torque and that was on the limits of its capability really.
    #21
  23. Rabbit222
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    Rabbit222 Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Hey Iggu, my car was booked in to Audi today to have my clutch replaced as well as to have my Haldex controller fitted. My symptoms were different in that my car would rev all they way to red line without the clutch biting. This would happen in 3rd, 4th and 5th gear followed by that horrific clutch burning smell. I took the car to the dealership yesterday and they agreed immediately to have the clutch replaced. Will let you know how she feels once they are done.
    #22
  24. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Im convinced its the DMF.

    Generally when the clutch slips it doesnt bite again unless you change gear. And you get that awful stink.

    Iggus video shoes the exact same symptoms Ive had before. The clutch appears to slip then bite again.

    The way it was explained to me is that the clutch is out of allignement, essentialy `slopping around` due to the DMF `damper` having deteriorated or collapsed.
    And its this allignment problem that reduces the contact area on the friction plate, which is overwhelmed by the torque.
    As the rpm rises and the torque drops off, the friction increases and the clutch `bites` again.
    The technical term is `shagged` I think.

    Paul
    #23
  25. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Outstanding. P*ss funny that mate.:)
    Thanks for all observations on this - very helpful.
    Rabbit - are you going for another DMFW or a SMFW ? Not sure I can live with the hardcore nature of a SMFW to be honest.
    #24
  26. jonnyc
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    jonnyc Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Yep, just the clutch slipping at the point at which it makes most torque, reason its worse in the cold is because the car will be boosting more psi and therefore making more torque etc..

    Time for a new one like you say! :)
    #25
  27. Rabbit222
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    Rabbit222 Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    I think my car has the LUK clutch and is being replaced with a SACHS clutch from Audi. Just to add, the techy mentioned this morning that a few earlier 3.2 Quattros displayed similar characteristics but these pointed to Haldex failure. I did a quick Google search and this thread popped up ...
    I'm not saying that you are having Haldex failure, just found it interesting.

    http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3582071

    "ok so, i brought the car to my buddy David at CarsINC in Chesapeake. We scanned it again to not find any fault codes because they were cleared out the first time i scanned it yesterday - but of course still no AWD. He was able to call a dealership he used to work at and referred me to them to try to get them to cover my powertrain under the warranty... i kind of lucked out here because since david is a close friend to most of the mechanics and service advisor, they were able to 'overlook' the fact that i have an aftermarket Haldex controller on my car. So long story short, i will be getting the whole Haldex system replaced and they are going to swap the bHPP over for me - all for free under warranty.

    the mechanic that david is friends with explained to me that the clutch system (a wet clutch system) was pretty much just burnt out and slipping - almost like how an automatic transmission dies out. He told me that the bHPP was still working which does make sense and seeing how the fault code read that there was a fault with the clutch etc etc... As Ian i think had his doubts about the actual bHPP failing, he was right. hearing how everyone else was able to just switch out the Haldex module itself to fix the problem does make me weary about the diagnosis - but maybe if i have the time during the week, ill try to swap out to the original controller to see what happens. i knwo it couldnt hurt.
    but for now ill wait for the new parts to come in. ill still be driving to NY this weekend but if there is any snow ill have to convince myself to stay away from the fun this time around and maybe take a trip to western VA to play when i get back and it snows out there.
    so again, i thank everyone a thousand times for taking the time to read about my car problems. it is GREATLY appreciated and is nothing less than what the R community has always done for other R owners... thank you. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]"
    #26
  28. sakkie69
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    sakkie69 2008 Audi S3

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    How many km's/miles on your cars? I'm sure if you get there with 30,000km or so (which would be normal for a 2007 car) they will just shout misuse?
    Or are there technical articles or referenes you can point them to? How much does such a clutch replacement cost in South Africa?
    #27
  29. ollyhawkeye
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    ollyhawkeye Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Hi guys, My S3 which is standard (no remap) has just started doing this today! Its done 36500 miles and is an 07, mostly motorway driving and no dragging the clutch.

    I recently disconnected the battery for 20mins as it felt down on power and now this has started, its in for a service next month. Do we think the dealer will replace it?
    #28
  30. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    The clutch isnt covered under warranty although the DMF is.

    you might get some goodwill from AUDI but iirc its not covered beyond the 1st 6months.

    However if the knackered DMF has caused `consequential damage` to the clutch plate/assy it will be covered. This was the case with VW on my last car anyway so Im assuming AUDI have a similar policy.

    Cheers
    Paul
    #29
  31. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Judging from your location (Berkshire), I'd give Reading Audi a wide berth, they came up with every excuse in the world why it was something else. Oxford Audi was the 3rd dealership I visited who actually listened, came out on a test drive with me, then understood and fixed the issue. Best of luck mate (PS: mine was at 11k!!!)
    #30
  32. ollyhawkeye
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    ollyhawkeye Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Yeh I guess its down to wear and tear. I am sure its been said before but I wouldn't expect a clutch to go after just 36k, I don't think i have ever replaced one.

    Anyway I will get onto the dealer, it does just seem a coincidence that after the car seemed to regain power from disconnecting the battery the clutch is now slipping. Almost like the ecu was retarding the power as the clutch is wearing.

    Thanks

    Olly
    #31
  33. ollyhawkeye
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    ollyhawkeye Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Yeh its due in at Slough Audi on Dover St who have been good so far...
    #32
  34. sakkie69
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    sakkie69 2008 Audi S3

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    So can you just indicate if you had to pay for the clutch upgrade yourself or if Audi covered it (in full or part?), and also what it cost?

    This is pretty scary stuff, as it is a wear/tear item not normally covered unless your dealer has a good understanding of the problem.
    #33
  35. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Thanks Jonny - I was hoping you would spot this thread and offer your expertise !
    I've been chatting to Toby (he's also running a thread on the SMFW issue) and I've decided to go with a new DMF rather than SMF as (no offence intended PaulAr) the consensus does appear to be that it is clutch related and not the flywheel. Probably (like Rabbit) got the old LUX version.
    Anyway its a good excuse to spend cash on the Stage2+ Revo upgrade which I have yet to hear a bad word about.
    #34
  36. ollyhawkeye
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    ollyhawkeye Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Will do, its not due in till the 1st, however if it gets worse I'll be in on the weekend banging my drum....
    #35
  37. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    I didn't pay a penny, but then car was 11 months old and I do contribute to a fixed cost maintenance plan.

    I'd guess by now that there will be knowing nods within Audi that there are some weak points on the A/S3, so I guess you'll not have to pay in warranty.
    #36
  38. ollyhawkeye
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    ollyhawkeye Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Thats the outcome I will be looking for...hopefully its the one I get. Thanks guys
    #37
  39. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    I have doubts that Audi would definitely fit a Sachs unit and new flywheel if I let them loose on it. I also worry about the quality of their workmanship based on past experience (I once collected my car after a service and they had forgotten to put new oil in .......). Having had my car professionally detailed a fortnight ago I'm also worried they will let their valeting chimps wreck it. And on top of that I can't be bothered arguing the toss with them like Sohrob and WarrenCox have had to do only for them to cut corners in an attempt to recoup some cost.
    With AmD I know what I'm getting - so I'm choosing to pay on this one.
    #38
  40. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 10, 2009]
    Don't blame you at all, in retrospect I should have done the same.

    A few weeks ago my windows would roll back 1/2 way when it rained. Interior got soaked twice, so I had the leather retreated. Audi said I'd been very lucky that both times it happened I was in a secure car park (no $hit Sherlock).

    What was Audi's solution - they disabled the feature using VAG.com as there was no error code!!! So now even if I wanted to roll my windows down with the key, I can't (I'm sure they thought it was me doing it by mistake and not their godly car being at fault)

    On SEAT forum there has been a solution relating to a faulty door locking barrel causing the issue. Printed it out and gave it to them as a pointer..... What can I say, you can take the horse to water.......

    Never assume they will do what's best, only what is needed.
    #39
  41. Fast,not furious
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    Fast,not furious Dealing with an OCD

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    [Mar 11, 2009]
    I've only just seen this thread....it's exactly what i had had with mine after a remap,and i'm only running a 'conservative' 300 ft/lbs. It had about 25k on the clock when the DMF started to give up - slipping in 5th and 6th when i gave it some wellie. The clutch itself was fine,but i had it replaced with a Sachs high performance one,and OE DMF -the increased clamping pressure of the Sachs should insure no more sliiping,espaecially as i don't intend a turbo upgrade.
    #40

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