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Plasma and LCD...forget it!

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by CJ A4, Sep 22, 2005.

  1. CJ A4
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    CJ A4 Active Member

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    [Sep 22, 2005]
    Looks like theres a new kid on the block when it comes to home entertainment via visual medium and by looking at the specs its gonna finish LCD and Plasma tv's

    try this link http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20050907PR210.html

    Also maybe do a search for SED technology on google to get more info. This looks like something to look forward to.
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  3. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    Sounds interesting but when is the HD stuff coming in?
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  4. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Sounds interesting but when is the HD stuff coming in?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    First HD gear will be the Xbox 360 in December, soon after that sky will be offering HD transmissions.

    After seeing a HDTV (with appropriate input) next to a normal TV I'm hooked, I'll be getting a new TV when the 360 comes out!

    Kev.
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  5. Khufu
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    Khufu Active Member

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    Will sky then have to have a new decoder box? My Panasonic tv is supposed to support it through a specific scart socket on the rear...
    #4
  6. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    I was in Comet this week looking at Samsung LCD tv's and i see they do HD dvd players too.

    This is really confusing.

    I think i need a lie down.
    #5
  7. imported_fingermouse
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    imported_fingermouse Guest

    [Sep 23, 2005]
    arrrrrrrrrrr not another format to choose !!!!! will I ever make my mind up and plunge for a 42 " widescreen or there abouts???

    I was just thinking of getting a 40" sony lcd tv after bining the plasma idea but now there is sed coming out but at what cost ??? my head hurts now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
    #6
  8. imported_Nigma
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    imported_Nigma Guest

    [Sep 23, 2005]
    When you see "HD" you have to be carefull. All items sold in europe that conform to the european HD standard will have the "HD Ready" or "HD-TV" sticker on it. It must also be able to be able to support atleast 720p or 1080i lines.
    And if you want to future proof you setup, make sure that the equipment (especially, TV's) ensure it has a HDMI interface.
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  9. Kevint
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    Kevint Active Member

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    When you see "HD" you have to be carefull. All items sold in europe that conform to the european HD standard will have the "HD Ready" or "HD-TV" sticker on it. It must also be able to be able to support atleast 720p or 1080i lines.
    And if you want to future proof you setup, make sure that the equipment (especially, TV's) ensure it has a HDMI interface.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Good advice - The HD thing is a real head ache at the moment - I'm going to wait a while to see what Sky come up with then get something that will suit the Xbox, Sky, DVD etc...

    Kev.
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  10. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 26, 2005]
    Yeah like Mr Patel said, unless it has HDMI connection its not true HighDef.
    Also most lcd/plasma only run at 768x 1290 ish, this is also not going to be true HighDef. Screen pixels need to be capable of taking the 1080 this is going to be the standard for HighDef (HD). So i recomend to wait until these screen appear, plus they are becoming cheaper all the time too. Another thing to remeber is that Highdef isnt actually built into the sets, so therefore needing external media box (ie freeview box) as an add-on. So the newer sets will more than likely have the HighDef tuners built in we're hoping, lol.
    #9
  11. imported_Nigma
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    imported_Nigma Guest

    [Sep 26, 2005]
    As far as i know, freeview won't be able to handle HD content until analog has been switched off. This is simply because the bandwidth isn't available at the moment and the analog is consuming a lot of this.
    Only sky boxes will support HD to start with. But as mentioned above, if its got HDMI its gonna be HD ready.
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  12. gizze
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    gizze Member

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    [Oct 5, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Yeah like Mr Patel said, unless it has HDMI connection its not true HighDef.
    Also most lcd/plasma only run at 768x 1290 ish, this is also not going to be true HighDef. Screen pixels need to be capable of taking the 1080 this is going to be the standard for HighDef (HD). So i recomend to wait until these screen appear, plus they are becoming cheaper all the time too. Another thing to remeber is that Highdef isnt actually built into the sets, so therefore needing external media box (ie freeview box) as an add-on. So the newer sets will more than likely have the HighDef tuners built in we're hoping, lol.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    1080 is actually interlaced not progressive, for any display that is digital it has to be deinterlaced before it can be displayed, so what happens with 1080i??

    The 1920x1080 lines are actually shown in two fields, the first one shows the odd 540 line and then the following one shows the even 540 lines. Now any digital display has to take those first 540 lines and deinterlace them and also scale them to whatever the displays native resolution is, either 480 (downscaling), 768 (upscaling) or 1080 (upscaling even more).
    So you can see that a 1080p panel is not that important for 1080i, it will be good though if they start braodcasting in 1920x1080/24, this is progressive 1080 with 24 frames per second, meaning very smooth motion and judder/artifact free.
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  13. CJ A4
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    CJ A4 Active Member

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    [Oct 5, 2005]
    WOW i'm glad thats that cleared up then!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Nice one Gizze
    #12
  14. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    [Oct 6, 2005]
    Cleared what up, i'm more confused than ever now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
    #13
  15. S3K
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    S3K Member

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    [Oct 6, 2005]
    when i was asking about the hd and all that, in comet, they told me that to get hd tv on sky you have to have sky + to receive it.
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  16. C_Audiboy
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    C_Audiboy Vroom Vroom

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    [Oct 6, 2005]
    The 'HDMI' port, is this the DVI port on the rear of the TV?
    #15
  17. sash
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    sash Member

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    [Oct 7, 2005]
    dont think that correct about the Sky + box. I was told that the early sky boxes to support hidef would have component outs on them (which is what you need if you want to record without the copyright restrictions), after that they will release the HDMI (copyright protection) boxes.
    I dont beleive sky have released a box with hidef cpabilities yet, i think they are looking to roll those out near the end of the year (there are currently no hi def broadcasts on sky).
    With more and more bandwidth becoming available on the internet companies like Sky plan to use the extra bandwidth to start delivering content via the net. We are looking at getting 24Mb probably by 2007, this would allow Sky to stream Hi def programming over the internet.
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  18. CJ A4
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    CJ A4 Active Member

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    [Oct 7, 2005]
    Thats is correct s4sh you will need to get a new box from sky when HD is transmitted and comes online. Existing boxes wont be any good.
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  19. Khufu
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    Khufu Active Member

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    [Oct 7, 2005]
    yer, like Comet know ****! LOL. My TV actually doesnt support HDTV /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif good TV though.
    #18
  20. gizze
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    gizze Member

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    [Oct 8, 2005]
    Sky have gone and /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif on everyones parade with the format they have chosen for Hi-Def.
    Since the end of the eighties, start of the nineties there were HD standards laid out, the main one being 1080i/60, this format gives an image that is 1920x1080 interlaced (shows 1920x540 even lines and then 1920x540 odd lines on the next frame, it repeats this 30 times which is where we get the 60 from).

    The next big HD standard was 720p/60 which is 1280x720 but progressive, in other words it shows all 720 lines in one go and again shows it 60 times a second. Although it is slightly less resolution than 1080i it has the advantage of being smoother for stuff like sports, and if you feed a digital display a progressive image it doesn't have to deinterlace it itself, which is usually a good thing as the cheap deinterlacers in tv don't noramlly do too good a job.

    So everyone was expecting Sky to adopt these two formats, and at last we had a chance of a clean break to get away from living in a Pal world, when all the TV maufacturers live in an NTSC world this is a very good thing. However, Sky went and choose to keep everything at 50Hz, and to keep in with the film studios they also decided that their set top boxes would only output over HDMI, hdmi is dvi but with embedded audio and more importantly HDCP, High Definition Copy Protection. Now if they had kept with 60Hz this would not be a problem as just about all digital displays can accept 480p, 576p, 720p 1080i @ 60Hz, but only the Pioneer TV range can at 50Hz over HDMI.
    This meant that all their target audience that were likely to adopt Sky HD in the early days would not actually be able to view it on the TV they had bought ready for it, and even the Plasma Sky had been selling people on the back of their monthly TV Guide would also need to be replaced.

    Now, just about every digital display can accept these formats over component video, so Sky have now announced that the first HD boxes (made by Thompson) will have Component outs on them, however they can not guaruntee that at somepoint you may need to upgrade to a set that can handle the formats over HDMI (or DVI with HDCP).
    I would have thought that just about everything other than Pay-Per-View events will be OK, even the boxes with HDMI will still output over the component, all that happens is that the analogue outputs automatically turn off when the HDCP is in the signal.

    There are already boxes out there to strip HDCP and boxes that convert HDMI (with HDCP in it) to VGA or Component, and by the time this stuff really matters they will be even more of them about. the movies studios want to protect their rights, they are so scared of the average Joe ripping HD movies and sharing them across the net, but it is already being done, just look at the Gladiator 1080i downlioad, everyone is sharing it and it is 24gig, as speeds increase there will be more piracy, which is a shame, they only way forward is to drop the prices to a level that means you wouldn't even consider having a copy.
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  21. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 8, 2005]
    "at last we had a chance of a clean break to get away from living in a Pal world, when all the TV maufacturers live in an NTSC world this is a very good thing"
    Not quite sure what you're saying here, PAL is far superior to NTSC in absolutely every way.
    The nickname for NTSC is "Never The Same Colour" because the colour quality is so poor.

    But totally agree that if they've done it to protect copyright then as usual it is only the consumer who suffers. The serious pirates will find a way round it so why bother.
    I've said it before on here that investing in HD technology before we absolutely for sure know what is going to be available is a little naive.
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  22. sash
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    sash Member

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    [Oct 10, 2005]
    I can see this HDCP thing changing on a regular basis. Hacking copyright protection is almost like a sport nowadays. I remember this same thing happened when they tried to do all this **** to music CDs. How many different types of copyright protection have ended up on CD (i remember one was circumvented using nail varnish).

    I think they are gonna probably go through all sorts of copyright protection techniques, no matter what it is though, some bright spark with probably find a way around it (sounds like they already have with HDCP).

    Companies sprouted up soon after the RIA went on the rampage with shared music. Online stores like iTunes, Napster, MSN music & Virgin all realised that they needed to change with the times, iTunes music store is now a raging success. I'm pretty sure that NTL and Sky will follow suit. I know that the BBC are planning on making a lot of their programming freely available to the UK (to start with) from thier website.They have already kind of started by making the "Mighty Boosh" and a few other programs available from the BBC3 web site.

    It certainly is going to be an interesting couple of years, especially now that NTL and Telewest have merged. The merger should hopefully be able to offer some serious competion to Sky. Competition usually results in cheaper prices for us consumers, fingers crossed.
    #21

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