1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Pano roof exploded

Discussion in 'New A3/S3 (8V Chassis)' started by number3, Mar 7, 2014.

  1. number3
    Offline

    number3 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    27
    Gents a few of you have been members far longer than me , does anyone recollect the below?????

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...i-a3-2-0-tdi-sport-sun-roof-just-explode.html

    This has happened to my car yesterday , all windows closed , driving about 60 on flat dual carriage way , the loudest crack / bang / honestly like a gun shoot, the pano sun roof explodes , almost lost it on road , glass everywhere !

    many issues later as for some reason audi's computers can't tell difference between a sunroof or a whole roof made of glass , my car is with Audi and I'm in an A4!!!

    Has anyone heard of this, I've seen Q5's have had a recall ? But not A3's?? Any help greatly appreciated, as at the moment I'm not sure even when fixed I want the thing back , if it's a fault ??

    cheers
    #1
  2. VeeDubDan
    Offline

    VeeDubDan Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    67
    £900+ well spent.
    #2
  3. andy203
    Offline

    andy203 181 BHP

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    54
    That's not good news for folks with cars with Panoramic Sun roofs or others like me waiting for cars with it spec'd. Hope nobody injured, any known cause?
    #3
    TonyH38 likes this.
  4. Rexus
    Offline

    Rexus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    25
    Wow, never heard of that before, and I picked up my new Saloon with sunroof last week. Hope you get it fixed ok and they tell you it won't happen again! Let us know how you get on.
    #4
  5. Battlekrapz
    Offline

    Battlekrapz Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    236
    Ouch, that's bad...
    #5
  6. Snake Pliskin
    Offline

    Snake Pliskin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Messages:
    837
    Likes Received:
    559
    That is seriously concerning.

    Glad you ok and no one hurt !

    Would major reassurance on safety of the pano roof after that.
    #6
  7. robo1million
    Offline

    robo1million Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    56
    Google it.... Seems a common thing across a number of manufacturers.... Worrying!!!
    #7
  8. J6YAK
    Offline

    J6YAK Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    201
    You certainly don't need a glass shower when out on a drive do you!! Glad I didn't spec it!!
    Hope it all gets sorted soon for you
    #8
  9. dstama
    Offline

    dstama Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2013
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    5
    Had you had it tinted by any chance?

    (not sure it would have exploded if that was the case)
    #9
  10. TonyH38
    Offline

    TonyH38 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    23
    Hope no injuries from flying glass, and hope it does not happen to mine.
    #10
  11. snowfree52
    Offline

    snowfree52 Full LED baby !

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    124
    pics ?
    #11
  12. h5djr
    Offline

    h5djr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2003
    Messages:
    7,456
    Likes Received:
    557
    I know the windscreen on the A3 is made from laminated glass but are the side and rear windows made from laminated or toughened glass.
    #12
  13. B8on19s
    Offline

    B8on19s New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2014
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    9
    This is on an 8P, which has quite a different Pan roof to the 8V. I heard about people having issues (even the likes of Golf 6's and Polo'swith pano roofs). My cousin even had his explode on a Mini Cooper S.

    I believe that the 8v pan roofs have been sorted from what I hear, hence the 2/3 glass design and metal for the last 1/3 Lets hope it actually IS sorted and we have nothing to worry about!!
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
    #13
  14. cemerson
    Offline

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    684
    The existence of this thread suggests not... The thread he linked to was for the 8P, but this one is an 8V if the signature is anything to go by!
    #14
  15. B8on19s
    Offline

    B8on19s New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2014
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    9
    Doh!! Misread and referred to the linked thread only...damn!!! Ok, first 8V of exploding sunroof i heard of..
    #15
  16. number3
    Offline

    number3 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    27
    Sorry no pics, Audi road side assistance took a few, but wasn’t really top of my list, but appeared to blow out from inside!!

    Sunroof comes tinted as standard.

    And yes, just linked the other thread as was similar to what happened to me, even though older model.

    No luckily nobody was hurt, was in car on my own, ( all I’ve thought about is what if kids had been with me !!! ) and the shade was closed , but that didn’t stop tiny shards flying everywhere!! Was driving on a flat duel carriageway, having just come off a roundabout, so was just accelerating , speed was about 40/50, all windows were closed, though i had had my side window open about 20/30 minutes before. Then seemed a bomb had gone off in car, have had windows go due to stones, but this seemed totally different , was so loud , and pressure in ears. Not proud to say panicked and swerved across road as though something had hit me, well not sure really what was going on, ended on grass verge.

    After calming down, rung Audi assistance , after their initially confusion of why I was ringing for a sunroof????? They understood the term panoramic!!! To be fair once they understood they dealt very quickly, but what they couldn’t do, due to the system, was organise a car to be brought out!!!. Apparently under normal accident procedure, if there is one, they can send a courtesy car out at the same time as car being picked up by road side assistance. Not in this case, i hate to say it ….. but computer side no.

    Was told to ring Audi UK, as they could sort a replacement car, and yes you guessed, initially told to ring back road side assistance as “they” deal with it. Again few calls later everyone understood. But still couldn’t send car, so would have to babysit car back to dealer where one was waiting.

    Now whilst this is going on and I’m calming down , I’m remembering that my car has actually been back to my dealer to fix a noisy pano roof and broken front driver’s seat. Twice in for the roof.

    So at the moment car in getting fixed, and I’m waiting on response from Audi of what’s happened. Audi UK have rung every day for an update from my side, which is great, but just want a car back that i don’t think this is going to happen again.

    Audi UK initially said , never heard of this, which i jumped in and said , what apart from the recall on Q5’s for this very thing???? That changed then to , just A3’s.

    I’m happy to have car back, but i want answers!!! One hopefully not a fault with car and maybe just one of those things, and two, the other dealer hasn’t caused it by doing whatever they did when in to be fixed. ( have moved since buying, so it’s not currently back with original dealer )


    and yes sorry mine is an 8V:(
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
    #16
  17. number3
    Offline

    number3 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    27
    I was surprised to learn from dealer, pano roof is not laminated.!! that's a lot of glass sitting above our heads!!
    #17
  18. number3
    Offline

    number3 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    27
    Also guys, cheers for concerns of nobody being hurt :)
    #18
    warren_S5 likes this.
  19. cemerson
    Offline

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    684
    Wow, strange that the glass isn't laminated.

    I can only imagine that because cars aren't TOTALLY rigid, it can put a lot of stress on the glass going over certain bumps or inducing certain stresses on the car, where a metal roof would flex or bend slightly to absorb it, but not glass. You would have thought they would take this into account though and mount the glass on some semi-flexible fixings that interface with the car, but who knows?
    #19
  20. s33nyboy12
    Offline

    s33nyboy12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,412
    Likes Received:
    168
    Just out of interest I know you were one of the first to get the new a3 ......, what's the mileage on yours mate????

    Sean
    #20
  21. warren_S5
    Offline

    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    7,176
    Likes Received:
    2,358
    I nearly ordered this on my new car, now somewhat pleased that I didn't.

    How's your head?

    Did it actually just shatter and stay largely in situ or did it 'pop out' and fly?

    You think by today's standards they'd have this sort of thing in check. Not surprised it isn't laminated as it would add quite some weight to the roof which on these large glass panels would affect handling somewhat (as centre of gravity would be elevated quite a bit).

    When I think back to this thread: http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/139514-amar-akoyas-a3-build-panoramic-roof-retrofit.html now it makes me shudder a bit at the prospect!

    Hope you get sorted out properly; that is quite a big deal in terms of safety. Suggest a complimentary R8 experience at Silverstone might help calm your nerves ;-)
    #21
  22. number3
    Offline

    number3 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    27
    Hey Sean , am at 45k , was high mileage at start due to job location , but will be under 60k once renew comes up next November.

    The thought crossed my mind about mileage, but the warranty is up to 60k so would expect these things to be tested up to that point
    #22
  23. number3
    Offline

    number3 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    27
    Popped out, and then started falling! Once stopped was like a raised dome with hole at the top. Shade was closed so caught most of it , but covered in little tiny shards. Heads ok lol, but honestly ears where ringing! Was really strange .
    #23
  24. RossR
    Offline

    RossR Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2013
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    119
    I'm not surprised it blew outwards. The air moving over the top of it would suck it out. Similar principle to an aircraft wing. It cold still have been triggered by something falling on it from above.
    #24
  25. number3
    Offline

    number3 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    27
    Not totally convinced by the aircraft wing analogy , not saying you couldn't be right, just wouldn't think they would make a roof with any sort of upward lift ?

    As for something hitting it, sunroof was closed which makes it seem less likely , but that's not to say something didn't fly up and fall back down smack onto roof, just the fact they had the car in to fix the roof previously , and reading how this has happened on other makes and models , just makes me want to be sure !!!
    #25
  26. veeeight
    Offline

    veeeight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,553
    Likes Received:
    670
    Haha this is a whole completely new thread - how do planes fly

    Most pilots don't really know the complete answer, and most school children are taught a pack of lies !!
    #26
    cemerson likes this.
  27. cemerson
    Offline

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    684
    Yep, wing working is pretty complicated, and the thing taught to school kids is just wrong!

    The wing analogy does apply here though - Bernoulli's principle says that faster moving air = lower pressure, it's just as valid on a car as on a wing.
    #27
  28. veeeight
    Offline

    veeeight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,553
    Likes Received:
    670
    Air moving with respect to what though?

    The air moving under the car will be faster than the air moving over the car (splitter, smooth undertray, diffuser, spoiler) creating downforce

    But I agree that the air pressure on the outside of the pano roof will be lower than the inside, assuming a roadspeed of more than say 40mph !
    #28
  29. cemerson
    Offline

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    684
    With respect to the car... the air inside the car will be at higher pressure than the air flowing over the top of the car, simple!

    Air vents actually slightly exaggerate this effect as well, since air gets pumped into the car through the vents but doesn't escape all that easily, so pressure inside the car actually raises slightly above ambient pressure anyway.

    Underneath the car doesn't really have anything to do with it as far as the roof is concerned!
    #29
  30. cemerson
    Offline

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    684
    Any speed at all (as long as you aren't travelling downwind at wind speed...) will have this affect. It doesn't just 'kick in' at higher speeds, it's there all the time, just stronger at higher speeds. Blowing gently over the top of a piece of paper demonstrates the effect quite nicely.
    #30
  31. veeeight
    Offline

    veeeight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,553
    Likes Received:
    670
    No no no you are falling for the school kids error of Bernoulli applying at all times!

    The other factors is that the cabin of the car may be positively pressurised by the blowers, or negatively pressurised by the rear of the car (where the cabin air exit waffle is in the rear wing) being in a different area to the roof! So you can't just say that the roof of the car will always have lower pressure with respect to the interior of the car at any speed.

    The clarification of the wing analogy is that you can't just say that the bottom of the car is irrelevant as the way the car is designed is an upside down wing, to provide negative lift. So the underside of the car will have higher airflow and lower pressure than the roof.
    #31
  32. cemerson
    Offline

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    684
    Bernoulli DOES apply at all times, it's a law of physics! The thing that people are told wrong about wings is that it's the 'longer distance' that the air has to travel that causes it to go faster, which is a load of rubbish. And that bernoulli's principle is the only thing at play, which it isn't.

    The roof doesn't interface with the underside of the car (unless your pano roof is thicker than I though and actually does poke out the bottom!), therefore irrelevant in this case. The things that matter to the roof are the pockets of air in contact with the roof, which is the air above the car, and the air inside the car. Underside has nothing to do with it, and doesn't have any bearing on what happens to the roof. To the car as a whole, yes, but not the roof on its own in relation to the car.
    #32
  33. veeeight
    Offline

    veeeight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,553
    Likes Received:
    670
    Bernoulli does not apply when there is no airflow. Therefore it does not apply at all times.
    I am merely being accurate (or pedantic if you like).

    When you used the term "wing analogy" I asked with respect to what. Again, because to a casual observer, this can imply, especially with previous statements about the "air travelling faster over the roof" - someone can take that to mean the car being analogous to the wing, rather than inside roof/outside roof. Again, I'm merely being accurate.

    An example of this misunderstanding of taking the wing analogy to mean the car can be found in post #25
    The car, if taken as a system (easily done), is analogous to an upside down wing. Therefore the underside of the car is relevant.

    The outside of the roof, taken with respect to the underside of the pano roof, can be influenced by Bernoulli, but only when there is airflow. And even in this case, it isn't always true that the outside of the roof will be in a lower pressure zone than the interior of the car.

    Again, I'm being accurate (pedantic).

    Edit: But this is now way off topic.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
    #33
  34. cemerson
    Offline

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    684
    No airflow = ambient pressure. Bernoulli says this as well. It absolutely does apply! It just means you put 0 into Bernoulli's equation for v, still works. It's not accurate at all to say Bernoulli doesn't say this.

    You can still say 'air travelling faster over the roof' and mean with respect to the inside. I think you've assumed the rest!

    Not to the roof though! I don't think anyone ever mentioned the whole car being analogous to a wing, I think you've assumed that! I certainly was only ever talking about the roof, so the underside of the car is irrelevant.

    Which there was, as stated in the original post. The car was moving.

    Indeed, because there are other factors at play, but it certainly has a large effect.

    Indeed! But it's an interesting discussion.
    #34
  35. cuke2u
    Offline

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,643
    Likes Received:
    339
    All cars have hidden vents to prevent pressue inside them from becoming to high and uncomfortable. I doubt if the pressure becomes high enough to blow out a window because your ears would become painful...
    #35
  36. cemerson
    Offline

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    684
    It's a problem in gliding - air vents mean the cockpit slightly pressurises, and this then leaks out in undesirable places such as around the canopy and wing roots. A lot of people are experimenting with air 'exhausts' now to encourage the air to leave in one (planned) place to improve performance.
    #36
  37. veeeight
    Offline

    veeeight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,553
    Likes Received:
    670
    I think you'll find that when v=0, there is no point talking about pressure differentials and nothing comes of the equation.


    I gave you an example above where it was easily misunderstood!

    In all modern cars, there is at least one, if not two exit vents, normally situated in the lower rear 3/4. Colloquially known as a "waffle" due to its appearance.


    I really really hate forum ping pong !
    #37
  38. cemerson
    Offline

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    684
    You invented a situation that didn't happen, certainly :p
    #38
  39. veeeight
    Offline

    veeeight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,553
    Likes Received:
    670
    Yeah, right

    Maybe you just assumed it was you who pictured just the top of the roof/under the roof interface :p
    #39
  40. cemerson
    Offline

    cemerson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    684
    If you want to think that and it ends this conversation, fine by me :p
    #40

Share This Page