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P1297 / 17705 - something different?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Craig1.8t, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. Craig1.8t
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    Craig1.8t Member

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    [Jan 9, 2012]
    Hi all I've made a fresh post and going to list everything I have tried and done.
    EDIT: I have searched the web for ideas and have found nothing other than what I've already tried.

    I have vagcom and VAS main dealer. VAS says p1297 17705 pressure drop between turbo and throttle valve - STATIC. Notice how mine says static, yet the majority of other people with this fault says intermittent. How can it be "static" at idle with no boost and 20 inch vacuum.

    Before i go on, the car always runs flat until boost gets to 10 psi (car is mapped) then goes like the clappers, then goes in to limp mode. Sometimes it will jerk as if you are jabbing the throttle on and off. Sometimes but rarely get backfires while accelerating..

    This fault is mainly trial and error. And here is my exhaustive effort to fix this fault:

    New genuine maf (x2)
    Air intake temp sensor genuine
    Coil packs genuine
    Spark plugs genuine
    N75 genuine
    Pressure relief valve genuine
    Dump valve genuine (now running forge diverter)
    De-cat
    Rear lambda/O2 delete
    Smoke tested with no leaks (at least into atmosphere)
    Minimal play in turbo
    Checked timing, intake cam very slightly advanced
    Vacuum pipes checked & vacuum holds
    Checked pcv valve works as should do
    2nd hand genuine fuel pump (reads 3bar with vacuum pipe removed from FPR)
    New fuel filter genuine
    Replaced fpr several times making sure o-rings are not damaged
    cleaned and realigned throttle body
    Injectors read 12.7 ohms
    Injectors appear to have identical spray pattern
    Cleaned earths under battery and on coil pack loom
    New boost pipe genuine
    Engine oil flush with SPX refilled with 5w-30 long life 3 genuine oil and genuine filter
    Replaced both solenoid valves on intake manifold (n249 and what ever the other one is)
    Replaced ECT
    New y shape breather hose
    New pipercross air filter
    Tried a 180bhp ecu, fault and symptoms remain the same.

    VAGCOM logs look ok, nothing out of the ordinary. Will do more if requested.
    No rich/lean fault codes

    Someone please help before I burn the car in anger lol..
    thanks
    #1
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  3. towcestervag
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    towcestervag Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    pressure drop on throttle valve usually means it requires clean and reset
    what does boost read on vagcom whilst driving ?
    are the wires to n75 ok as these break at terminal
    #2
  4. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    Has this happened since you have had a remap?

    <tuffty/>
    #3
  5. Craig1.8t
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    Craig1.8t Member

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    I will check wiring when I get a bit of time.

    Tuffty, I'm not sure because when I changed the fuel pump it cured all the top end of the problems (was holding back sometimes) so I'm not sur. saying that the car was my friends before I bought it and it was him who had it mapped. There was problems before the map but they could have been the pump related problems.
    #4
  6. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    You are at that point when ideally you need to get some logging done to see whats going on... if you have an AGU then you could do with some way to check the AFR (wideband gauge) but if you have an AUM then you can log AFR through block 31..

    Symptoms suggest the ECU isn't happy about something and loging is realistically the only way you are gonna get an idea of where to start looking

    <tuffty/>
    #5
  7. Craig1.8t
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    Craig1.8t Member

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    Sorry it's an AUM I should have mentioned. I will do some logs tonight after work what's your instructions? Any other channels to log while I'm at it?
    #6
  8. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    Blocks 003 (airflow), 031 (fuel request vs actual), 115 (boost request vs actual) initially..

    Warm the engine to 90 deg before doing the runs... start from 2k rpm in third and accelerate foot to the floor until you get as legally/safely close to the redline as you can (or if the ecu will let you of course)

    Open the csv file in Excel, freeze the panes on the line below the headings, scroll to where the run starts making sure its all in screen... do a snipping tool crop of the data on screen, upload to your favourite picture hosting site (e.g. Photobucket) and post the result here :)

    Simples...

    <tuffty/>
    #7
  9. Craig1.8t
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    Craig1.8t Member

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    It needs a thermostat to get 90 degrees (still did this fault before thermostat started to stick open)

    Is it important to have 90 doin these tests? I have the part just trying to get time to fit it.
    #8
  10. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    Yes... ECU will be in cold start mode if not and fuelling tests etc will be meaningless...

    <tuffty/>
    #9
  11. Craig1.8t
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    Craig1.8t Member

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    But it won't be the cause of my problem? Because it did it when it use to sit on 90.. Anyway I will fit it and do some tests, I'll pm you when I'm ready thanks mate
    #10
  12. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    I wouldn't have thought its the cause but its certainly not going to be helping your cause... doo the logging and we can see whats what but you need to eliminate the stat as an issue to get a clearer picture of whats going on...

    <tuffty/>
    #11
  13. Craig1.8t
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    Craig1.8t Member

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    Ok thank you, finally someone willing to help who actually knows something :)
    #12
  14. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    Is the car mapped?

    If so its a common problem, with a buggy piece of code in the ECU software.

    AFAIK you (well the tuner) can disable the faulty routine or use a later version of the software code.

    Info here:
    Audi S3 1.8T Coldstart Problemand here:
    Hitting Limp-Mode and cannot understand WHY

    If you know who mapped it, take it back to them. If you dont, find a new tuner whos willing to fix it.
    #13
  15. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    #14
  16. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    Had this issue with the Custom Code stage 1 remap I had before I went BT... forgot all about that :)

    CC sent over a new file and never had it again... although if you ask them they would deny it was their code :)

    <tuffty/>
    #15
  17. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    Yeh its a bug in the original VAG code in the ECU, but it only rears its head once the car has been mapped.
    #16
  18. Yohan87
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    Yohan87 Member

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    The 17705 software bug on mine only happened when the car was cold and the temperature was 5C or below. It would never happen when warm.

    If I went out to the car on a cold morning and drove it I wouldn't be able to make more than 5psi. If I then turned the car off and then on again about 10-15 minutes later full boost would be restored.

    R-Tech applied the 17705 patch and all has been well ever since.
    #17
  19. Craig1.8t
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    Craig1.8t Member

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    The car is mapped but I tried a different ECU from a 180BHP engine, and the fault was still there...

    Just been given a bunch of parts free :) got injector rail with FPR and I think I have discovered a problem! The injectors in my car right now read 12.7 ohms and according to Autodata they should read 12 (I presumed this was fine with it bein in the 12's) but the injectors i have been given read 12.0 so I think I may have sourced the running problem don't know til I fit them. the code how ever could just be misleading.
    #18
  20. Craig1.8t
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    Craig1.8t Member

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    [Jan 10, 2012]
    Just changed the injectors and the hall sender. At first the fault code would not erase and would not come out of limp mode left the car for ten mins then the code erased and limp mode was gone. Car still runs the same. Will do some logs
    #19
  21. Craig1.8t
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    Craig1.8t Member

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    [Jan 17, 2012]
    Tuffty, I still hasn't got round to fitting thermostat that's why I haven't been in touch with some logs.

    Today I went to the car started up from cold and it was spluttering bad, wouldn't rev straight away etc.. Was better when warm but throughout the day been very jerky, is there anything you can think of except what I've tried that would cause this?
    #20
  22. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 17, 2012]
    If its running rich then its gonna be a little iffy but you still need to fix all the bits you know is wrong before you can hope to find anything else... these engines rely on so many different sensors etc that even something as simple as a thermostat can throw it all over the place..

    <tuffty/>
    #21
  23. Craig1.8t
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    Craig1.8t Member

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  24. R-Tech-Nick
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    R-Tech-Nick Member

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    Most 150/180 hp ecu code have the low threshold fvpdkldus (Untere Schwelle für Leck vor Drosselklappe Erkennung im Leerlauf bei niedriger t) map which can easy cause cold start issuse and the 17705 fault even when there is no hardware issues. If your 100% there is no hardware fault then just by changing this map will fix all your issues.

    Even is stock code the fvpdkldus map can trigger the 17705 code, but its more so once remapped and low down enigne VE request changes.

    Nick
    #23
  25. Craig1.8t
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    Craig1.8t Member

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    Nick, I have MPPS and WinOLS do you know how I can write out the 17705 using this software? Or is it possible I could e cheeky and send you the file that is in now that would be a .bin file?

    Thanks
    #24
  26. Craig1.8t
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    Craig1.8t Member

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    Nick, I have MPPS and WinOLS do you know how I can write out the 17705 using this software? Or is it possible I could e cheeky and send you the file that is in now that would be a .bin file?

    Thanks
    #25
  27. R-Tech-Nick
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    R-Tech-Nick Member

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    Send it to my email and I will patch it now for you.. I will make the change and give you the addesses.

    Nick
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012
    #26
  28. Craig1.8t
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    Craig1.8t Member

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    Just reading the file now will send it you within 15 minutes thank you
    #27
  29. R-Tech-Nick
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    R-Tech-Nick Member

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    Fixed you got email. let me know how you get on.
    #28
  30. Craig1.8t
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    Craig1.8t Member

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    Got the email mate thanks will let you know tomorrow how it goes. So hen you wrote out the code are you stopping it measuring boost in the way it use to? Or just eliminating the code?
    #29
  31. R-Tech-Nick
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    R-Tech-Nick Member

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    [Jan 22, 2012]
    Temp related threshold corrections a 5x1 map you will see 4 8bit bytes sets now at 00
    Lower threshold for leak detection in the throttle from idle at low temp.

    If you have major issues with boost/maf deviations then you will still gtt 17705 code. I have seen some maps with the P code dct tables all set to zero to stop all codes.
    #30

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