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Owners with - brake squeal - please register your frustrations HERE!

Discussion in 'RS3 Forum' started by elton121272, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. elton121272
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    elton121272 Active Member

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    [Nov 30, 2012]
    Hi All fellow RS3 owners,

    Whilst we appreciate the superb ownership value and personal satisfaction of the RS3 - which in itself is a 'world champion multi-tasker' as it delivers ticks on performance, handling, 5 door avant space, allegedly a decade dated interior which still delivers, servicing costs, insurance, mpg, stealthy looks, et, etc etc and could be considered the ultimate RS........

    Audi get it, we love it.

    What they don't get is our frustrations and by that I mean break squeal.

    Whilst we all totally appreciate the manufacturing levels of the braking system, indeed it's high performance reactions and its superbly sized callipers which glaze those drilled discs like a Stetson on John Wayne ...we get it and we love it?!?

    However what I personally can take - any longer - is the infuriating brake squeal, which the recent dry but very cold Scottish weather has intensified to the extent it is truly unbearable.

    Anyway I know I am not alone so I will move on.

    I have since had dialogue and very lengthy written communications from my local dealership to Audi UK on my brake issue - the dealership technicians have been in the car to witness the problem and after 2 full strip downs and de-glazing's, upon leaving the showroom forecourt the problem was still apparent. The dealer then reported to Audi UK.

    I then received a very technical, lengthy - but I'm think generic - letter of response, which in turn has escalated to communications to and from Martin Sander, Director of Audi UK.

    Basically I want to keep a simple thread which will consolidate all our experiences and help support, justify and even petition these owner experiences which aren't or haven't been to date, recognised or accepted as a major issue .....the quote I had was this was a 'topic' Audi are aware of.

    What I would like this thread to offer is a list off all owners experiencing similar brake squeal frustrations.

    Assuming we all have similar sentiments, I am happy to PM everyone with my comms and direction to log a formal and similar complaint. I have provided audible files to highlight clear examples but again I would be happy for any contributions.

    Therefore can each member experiencing similar frustration, help our manufacturer by copy and pasting the list below and adding your name.

    i will then magnify this to Martin with a view to an amicable and speedy resolve.

    Please post this link to other forums with RS3 owners.



    BRAKE SQUEAL RS3 OWNERS:

    1. elton121272
    2. CatnipRS3
    3. SGJ
    4. JonnyG
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2012
    #1
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  3. Dave Hedgehog
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    Dave Hedgehog Active Member

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    [Dec 1, 2012]
    squaky brakes dont bother me :p

    and Martin sent me 12 bottles of very nice wine after my last RS3 lunched its engine, top chap :)
    #2
  4. CatnipRS3
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    CatnipRS3 Active Member

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    [Dec 1, 2012]
    Hi Elton

    I am having the same problems and have just told Audi UK I no longer wish to drive the car. They have guided me back to the dealership to look at having the vehicle exchanged. But Audi UK say they are aware of the problem and cannot do anything until there is an official 'fix' for the problem....so that could in essence never materialise.

    When it has been wet and dries out the squeel is horrendous when coming to a stand-still!

    I'll PM you my email address so I can read any communications you've had as I am going back to the dealership next week.

    So PLEASE add me to your list.
    #3
  5. SGJ
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    SGJ New Member

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    [Dec 1, 2012]
    Hi guys,

    Happens to me as well every now and then, although not so much as to be really irritating. Very happy to be added to the list.
    #4
  6. JonnyG
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    JonnyG Active Member

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    [Dec 1, 2012]
    Please add me too ... I thought i could live with it, but after hearing it in a MS car park with my window down ... OUCH !

    How about putting sound clips on YouTube under the same title (just add a number at the end of the title to total up the sufferers Europe-wide !) - may urge Audi to find a fix more promptly :(
    #5
  7. Macdaddy
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    Macdaddy Active Member

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    [Dec 1, 2012]
    There's already a thread on the common issues on the rs3oc with a list intended to be sent to Audi, Might be worth while posting/viewing there too.

    Mine squeal too, registered the issue at Preston Audi :(
    #6
  8. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 1, 2012]
    Best add me too...

    Mine did squeal horrendously at 5 to 0mph, not until 1000-miles, however, and it was the worst front-brake squeal I had ever heard in my (long) automotive experience but, as you guys know, I've Copperslipped my pads, pistons and pad guides, and now they don't, well maybe just once in a while, squeal. But add me to the list too. It really is an AUDI tragedy to spoil a superb motorcar with such a careless fault.

    AUDI REALLY needs to listen (and I've already written to AUDI UK) and sort the problem.


    BAD news travels so much faster than good news.
    #7
  9. jamseyd24
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    jamseyd24 New Member

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    [Dec 2, 2012]
    Hey,

    Cheers for the info and you can add me to the list. I bought my RS3 second hand in OCT with 7k on the clock, within a week of driving the brakes started squealing. I put it down to the car not being driven in a while but continued until I returned to work. Now I joined the forum I realise it is a common problem.

    I have my car booked into Belfast Audi for the 12th and will be showing them this thread.
    #8
  10. S3DBW
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    S3DBW Member

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    [Dec 2, 2012]
    Must be the exception to the rule, never experienced the problem of squealing brakes, still only 4.5k on the clock, so may appear yet
    #9
  11. HullRs3
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    HullRs3 7th Gear

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    [Dec 2, 2012]
    Hi Elton. Please can you add me to the squealing brakes list so I can prove to JCT 600 Group/Hull Audi that when they looked at my brake squeal I am not imaging the problem. Also, that the man at the top recognises that we are not happy even if they have not yet found a resolution to fixing the squealing.
    The answer given to me that there was nothing wrong with the brakes, & high performance brakes will make a bit of noise. Well they did not define what was a little noise and an irritation to myself, my neighbours and others drivers which to be honest is doin me head in (Hull speak for getting on me tits or nerves).

    HullRs3 - John
    #10
  12. elton121272
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    elton121272 Active Member

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    [Dec 2, 2012]
    Thanks guys, I recon this is the list so far.

    Keep the names coming.

    for those of you who have PM'd me. I am awaiting feedback from Audi UK this week following my last letter and sound clip so I wil feedback once I have had their latest update/response.

    1. elton121272
    2. CatnipRS3
    3. SGJ
    4. JonnyG
    5. Macdaddy
    6. 45bvtc
    7. jamseyd24
    8. HullRs3
    #11
  13. CarrG
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    CarrG Member

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    [Dec 4, 2012]
    Another one here.

    Getting so fed up with all the niggles this car has, havent got time for it.
    Door card and window is bad again.
    Trading in means I could potentially have lost 1.3k a month.

    What a great Audi experience.

    1. elton121272
    2. CatnipRS3
    3. SGJ
    4. JonnyG
    5. Macdaddy
    6. 45bvtc
    7. jamseyd24
    8. HullRs3
    9. CarrG
    #12
  14. geek
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    geek Member

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    [Dec 4, 2012]
    +1

    Love the RS3 but the brake noise is nothing like I have ever experienced in a road car.

    1. elton121272
    2. CatnipRS3
    3. SGJ
    4. JonnyG
    5. Macdaddy
    6. 45bvtc
    7. jamseyd24
    8. HullRs3
    9. CarrG
    10. geek
    #13
  15. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 4, 2012]
    For the record, on the 18th July 2012: I posted, see: http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/rs3-forum/161865-brake-problem.html

    The front brake pads are DRY and thus vibrating (at a very high frequency) against the brake caliper pistons and/or brake caliper housing (not the disc). So please just remove all 4-pads (no special tools required), apply Copperslip, and refit: bye-bye brake squeal.

    My RS3, at 1000 miles or so, had horrendous brake squeal from the front brakes at low speeds, applying Copperslip to the back-face of the pad resolved the issue, and brake squeal has not returned (now at 2500 miles).

    Note: the application of Copperslip is a very old remedy for this well-known problem (have had the same problem on my Lotus Elan(s), A2, S3 and TT).

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Then again on the same day: 18th July 2012 (same post):
    Hey Nile, I have reported both the issue (brake squeal) and resolution to my local Stafford Audi Service guys, one of whom claims that 'dry' brake pads resulting in low-speed brake squeal is not uncommon...

    For the record: I did take my RS3 (at 1300 miles) to Stafford Audi in February this year to seek advice on the horrendous brake squeal I was getting at low speeds and was told that it was not a warranty issue but that Audi may look at it as a ‘good will’ gesture. Thank you very much thought I, so I drove the car home, removed the pads and applied Copperslip to the pads myself, problem gone.

    I then reported (in writing) back to Audi with both my own observations and the effective resolution. Also, having recently taken my TT into Audi for an MOT, I again raised the issue and provided them with the link to 'squeaky brakes'.

    So, someone within Audi does know…

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Then on the 23rd October 2012: I posted, see: http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/rs3-forum/165951-rs3-recall-update.html

    Please guys, this (front brake squeal) issue is not difficult to resolve: you just need to remove the brake pads, apply Copperslip, and refit. Your local garage could do it for you; it doesn't have to be an Audi garage. You can do it. I have done it, successfully: 45-minutes of effort did both sides.

    The most difficult issue on my car was the removal of the pads from the caliper - which is most probably the cause of the squeal/vibration anyway - as all four pads on my car were fast in the caliper, and had to be gently 'persuaded' out.

    However, if you do have front brake squeal, and you don't like it, then do something about it, please! The RS3 is far too good a piece of machinery to be bothered by something so easily rectified!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    And lastly 2-weeks ago:
    AGAIN: my brakes don’t squeal anymore, and it was/is such an EASY resolution, I kid you not!

    Just to be pro-active on this brake issue: I have this morning spoken to the UK Audi Customer Services (0800 699 8888) and logged both the issue and its/my resolution. I was told (by Mr. Hassan Hanit of UK Audi Customer Services) that the issue would be fed back to Audi (Germany).

    I’ve also sent the link to this listing to the same UK Audi Customer Services, so that they can see both the issue itself and the various reactions to it by Audi here in the UK.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    KEEP on banging the drum so that we can get something done!
    #14
  16. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 4, 2012]
    #15
  17. S3 AD
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    S3 AD Active Member

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    [Dec 4, 2012]
    So it basically is everybody that ownes an RS3

    1. elton121272
    2. CatnipRS3
    3. SGJ
    4. JonnyG
    5. Macdaddy
    6. 45bvtc
    7. jamseyd24
    8. HullRs3
    9. CarrG
    10. geek
    11. S3 AD

    Does any one own an RS3 that doesnt have musical front brakes?
    #16
  18. gummibear737
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    gummibear737 New Member

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    [Dec 4, 2012]
    Add me to the list. The sound is so overwhelming I just don't want to drive the car. Its not a loud normal squeak/squeal like a bus but rather a loud, uncomfortable shrill that sends chills down your spine. Been to the dealer three times and I keep getting the "this is normal" speech. This is outrageous. Because there are so few RS3 owners, they have no interest in fixing this until they get sued and are forced to address it.

    1. elton121272

    2. CatnipRS3
    3. SGJ
    4. JonnyG
    5. Macdaddy
    6. 45bvtc
    7. jamseyd24
    8. HullRs3
    9. CarrG
    10. geek

    11. gummibear737
    #17
  19. wickedstef
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    wickedstef Active Member

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    [Dec 4, 2012]
    Mine does it too, I guess I'll have my indy to use 45bvtc's method.

    1. elton121272
    2. CatnipRS3
    3. SGJ
    4. JonnyG
    5. Macdaddy
    6. 45bvtc
    7. jamseyd24
    8. HullRs3
    9. CarrG
    10. geek

    11. gummibear737
    12. wickedstef
    #18
  20. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 4, 2012]
    If the Copperslip doesn't reduce the brake squeal by 99% (not eliminate altogether mind) then I'll pay for the Copperslip (wickedstef ONLY)!

    Am I confident? You bet!

    The RS3 is far too good a car to be demonised by this bl##dy stupid issue!
    #19
  21. CatnipRS3
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    CatnipRS3 Active Member

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    [Dec 4, 2012]
    I have just come off the phone with my Audi dealership and also Audi UK, I have been told all Audi dealers are no longer allowed to do any updates regarding this issue until a fix from the factory in Germany has been found.

    I mentioned the 'Copperslip' interim-cure and have been told that if any Audi dealership or any third-party applies 'Copperslip' then the warranty regarding the discs, calipers and pads wold be void in the future.

    But...

    The area Audi after-sales manager is trying to get this fix approved directly with Audi in Germany

    Confusing I know!....

    I'll post back with his answer, which has been promised to me before Friday (7th Dec).
    (So if they counter-approve the application of 'Copperslip' then all Audi dealerships should be offering this interim fix)
    #20
  22. elton121272
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    elton121272 Active Member

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    [Dec 4, 2012]
    Hi Guys,

    Thanks for all the replies and formal updates to this thread.

    45bvtc - I think we are all in agreement with your earlier posts, but I for one would be uncomfortable tampering myself with brakes that I know nothing about and at the same time also felt doing this via a local garage as an aftermarket decision was A. a problem I didn't want the expense with and B.knowing Audi would potentially invalidate a future warranty claim.....as we all know if a problem isn't logged then it can't be fixed and Audi generally reject other persons tampering with anything they have done themselves.

    Anyway the point of this thread was to collate the numbers of various forum members expending similar frustrations across numerous threads.

    As I said previously I received a formal response from Martin Sander (Head of Audi UK) re this matter and I formally replied with a in depth letter pf response and a supportive audible file for his perusal and awareness this is not just an occasion squeak but in many cases extreme enough to reject the car.

    I called him again today for an update. He was not available but I did speak with Darren Hitchen - Customer Relations Manager. He said they where aware and were in close talks with Germany. I re-iterated my support and patience with Audi UK but equally said myself and double digit forum members who equate to 7 figures revenues deserved equal respect as many of us have experienced this issue from almost day one of ownership.

    i added that I would await a response by close of business this week. Thereafter i will seek legal advice and furnish all forum members with a copy of our communications for their own similar follow up. Again I made them aware of this forum and threads and the fact that a pro-active communication recognising this problem to all owners, updating that a fix is being reviewed and worked on, would in itself maintain a positive after sales service with its valued customers, having spent £117k with Audi since March 10!

    Will keep you posted on any developments.

    Cheers.
    #21
  23. JonnyG
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    JonnyG Active Member

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    [Dec 5, 2012]
    Well this is what I have to put with every day :keule:


    I'm hoping an official Audi fix is not too far away !

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
    #22
  24. elton121272
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    elton121272 Active Member

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    [Dec 5, 2012]
    JonnyG - this is an identical sound to mine and absolutely horrendous for a new £40k+ car and one I suspect many other frustrated loggers here experience. I presented Audi UK with a 45 sec sound bite which was made going down hill at slow speed and really couldn't send the message home (literally) any louder and clearer to the big wigs who need to take notice and be more pro-active in their customer care.
    #23
    L1ARR likes this.
  25. Macdaddy
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    Macdaddy Active Member

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    [Dec 6, 2012]
    Good work!


    That video soooo annoys me as its obviously the same noise as mine which bugs the hell out of me!
    #24
  26. mcentee525
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    mcentee525 New Member

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    [Dec 6, 2012]
    Please add me too ... been back to Manchester Audi a few times with this issue they are taking it up with Audi uk!

    I seem to be having a lots of problem's with this car, I have had a few different S models and this one has been the worst car by far for having problem's but by far the best car when running 100%

    Here is a list of the problems I have had with it so far-

    • front diff went three weeks ago (on using launch control),
    • front brake pads went,
    • front exhaust mount came lose,
    • vale in exhaust stuck open,
    • front brake pads squeal since I have got the car
    • rattle coming from exhaust (still got the problem)
    The car is a 62 plate & i have only done 2400 miles init, i think Audi need to swap my car for a new one :laugh:
    #25
  27. wickedstef
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    wickedstef Active Member

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    [Dec 6, 2012]
    I must admit mine isn't that bad ... yet. I'd say it's more low pitch but embarrassing nevertheless when stopping slowly at the lights.
    #26
  28. gummibear737
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    gummibear737 New Member

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    [Dec 6, 2012]
    Thanks for that JonnyG!

    This thread is turning into a support group:)

    Updated list:


    1. elton121272
    2. CatnipRS3
    3. SGJ
    4. JonnyG
    5. Macdaddy
    6. 45bvtc
    7. jamseyd24
    8. HullRs3
    9. CarrG
    10. geek
    11. S3 AD
    12. gummibear737
    13. wickedstef
    14. mcentee525
    #27
  29. n5tew
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    n5tew New Member

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    [Dec 6, 2012]
    15. n5tew
    #28
  30. monkeyboy_marcus
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    monkeyboy_marcus Active Member

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    [Dec 7, 2012]
    16. Had the issue since circa 2k miles and Audi Coulsdon changed the front brakes at 5k miles under warranty. Issue back after a couple of weeks but not as bad. Update from Audi today indicates that the brake squeal issue is well known but still no remedy. Annoying, for a "halo" model.
    #29
  31. Dave Hedgehog
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    Dave Hedgehog Active Member

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    [Dec 7, 2012]
    I dont know if its khama or the cold weather but mine have started squealing like a mother .....

    so you can add me :(
    #30
  32. S3 AD
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    S3 AD Active Member

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    [Dec 7, 2012]
    I am liking wet roads at the moment for some reason wet roads kill the squeal :)
    #31
  33. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 7, 2012]
    EXACTLY my point...

    I believe the pad is vibrating end-to-end within the caliper; the squeal being the noise emitted from a high frequency vibration created by the brake pad rubbing on the brake disc.

    Now, the non-friction side of the brake pad (as fitted to the RS3 and other modern cars) has a relatively soft (anti-squeal) coating to 'soften' the brake pad-to-brake piston contact so I do not believe its the pad vibrating against the pistons or at least it won't until the piston wears through the coating and becomes a metal-to-metal contact, but that will be another issue, and non of our cars should be in this situation.

    However, the end-to-end contact of the rake pad within the brake caliper is metal-to-metal and this is where I believe the problem to be (what do I know?).

    Applying Copperslip to these specific areas will dampen/change the frequency of the vibrations - as will the mass of moisture passing over the brake pads/discs on a wet road i.e., brake squeal will always be greater in DRY conditions.

    Alternative views welcomed.

    We have to resolve this issue on our RS3 cars ourselves if Audi 'can't' (I hate that word!), or won't!

    PS: I've been fortunate to witness 1000bhp V12 diesel engines being hit by a 30-ton mass to simulate a depth charge going off under the vessel and seen, in high-speed/high-definition film, how hard-metal components distort/vibrate under extreme stress...
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
    #32
  34. rsteve
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    rsteve New Member

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    [Dec 7, 2012]
    Add me to the list. Went to Audi with the problem, they say its the first time they've heard about it. Well they know now.

    1. elton121272
    2. CatnipRS3
    3. SGJ
    4. JonnyG
    5. Macdaddy
    6. 45bvtc
    7. jamseyd24
    8. HullRs3
    9. CarrG
    10. geek
    11. S3 AD
    12. gummibear737
    13. wickedstef
    14. mcentee525
    15. n5tew
    16. monkeyboy_marcus
    17. rs
    teve
    #33
  35. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 7, 2012]
    Then again, maybe it is against the pistons: this is one of my brake pads today @3500 miles. You can clearly see that: 1) the anti-squeal adhesive is nowhere near the piston contact, and 2) the pistons have been chattering metal-to-metal against the back face of the brake pad.

    P1010725.jpg


    P1010722.jpg

    Oops Audi!
    #34
  36. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 8, 2012]
    We've all had them, that EURIKA moment when we think s**t!, why didn't I see that before?

    Well, my EURIKA moment on this brake-squeal issue arrived yesterday and my brake squeal problem is NOW 100% solved, seriously!

    For the doubters, Copperslip really does help, but I now realise that Copperslip is not a 100% solution, sorry...

    I did speak to my local Audi dealership yesterday with my own 'very' recent findings, and I'm seriously looking forward to hear what Audi now (if anything) propose to resolve the low speed brake squeal issue with both the RS3 and TT, as it really is the same problem; someone at VW/Audi had a bad day and cocked-up: that being a technical term, obviously!

    However, for me, and for the record, the front brakes on my RS3 will no longer squeal at 5 to 0mph, ever, period!

    PS, I AM a pensioner and paid for my RS3 (cash) with my own money, so I was not going to drive such a superb motorcar as an RS3 with such an audible low speed announcement, ARE YOU?

    Can you imagine someone with their brakes squealing outside the chipshop, carpark, pub, etc., in an Audi RS3?
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
    #35
  37. n5tew
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    n5tew New Member

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    [Dec 8, 2012]
    Rejected?
    #36
  38. HSP
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    HSP 3rd Gear

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    [Dec 8, 2012]
    Add me to the list. Went to Audi with the problem, they say its the first time they've heard about it. Well they know now.


    1. elton121272
    2. CatnipRS3
    3. SGJ
    4. JonnyG
    5. Macdaddy
    6. 45bvtc
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    #37
  39. monkeyboy_marcus
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    monkeyboy_marcus Active Member

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    [Dec 9, 2012]
    My brake squeal is back with a vengeance today, it being dry and very cold for reference. Would love to hear more about your eureka moment! I have very little mech eng background/equipment/space and am dependant on Audi fixing this under warranty, and according to Coulsdon, they are awaiting a fix from HQ. I'm not remotely happy about the situation and am just glad that I'm not alone with this issue. Good on you for persevering with this!
    #38
  40. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 9, 2012]
    Hi monkeyboy_marcus

    I've obviously given this issue lots of thought especially as the problem isn't new, I've known it since the late 60's with my own Triumph Spitfires, GT6, Lotus Europa, and Lotus Elans; and the resolution has always been the same.

    Now with the RS3: my brakes were 'silent' for the first 1300 miles and then they started squealing like nothing I'd ever heard before at 0 to 5mph; above this speed range, not a problem. I believe the reason for this is that the paint on the back of the standard brake pad was acting as a cushion therefore suppressing the vibration (that creates the brake squeal) between the piston and the pad.

    So, having had the same reaction from Audi that everyone else seems to have had, and me hating negative answers, I removed the pads from the caliper. As already documented, the pads in both calipers were very 'dry' and difficult (very tight in the caliper) to remove, but the anti-squeal coating on the back of the pad 'appeared' intact. So, using my well practiced previous remedial actions from earlier years I lightly Copperlipped the back face of each pad (pad to piston side) and refitted the pads to caliper.

    For the next 2000 miles, no noise at, absolutely silent!

    However, over the past 100 miles, the faintest squeal, on occasion, reappeared; but now controllable - on/off the pedal and gone.

    Now, on the 6th December S3AD said: "I am liking wet roads at the moment for some reason wet roads kill the squeal", and I though/replied "EXACTLY my point": thank you S3 AD!

    So out with the pads again.

    HELLO! Now there's a bright contact patches on the backplate obviously caused by the brake piston. You can clearly see where the piston has both crushed and worn through the paint: we now have metal-to-metal contact and squeal. Obviously, the Copperslip had had the desired effect in providing a degree of lubrication/tackiness but is not a long-term solution.

    PAD#1.JPG




    So, I cleaned the pads and fitted some Mintex self-adhesive anti-squeal shims (£17 for four with Copperslip equivalent on eBay, but there's cheaper, too) to cover the piston to pad area: I actually believe that AUDI have the design of the original anti-squeal pad wrong and there is no anti-squeal pad in the piston area; maybe someone in AUDI can at least review this point. Add a smear of Copperslip and refit.

    PAD#2.jpg

    50-miles yesterday with purposefully lots of low speed braking and perfect! No noise at all and a perfect 'pedal'.

    The tools: a good trolley jack, wheel brace, 6mm diameter punch, slotted screwsdriver, fibre hammer, grips, torque wrench.

    PAD#3.jpg

    For me, I can pull the pads and refit in approximately 30 to 45-minutes per side, and that includes washing the inside of the wheel rim.

    I sincerely hope this helps.

    And yes, I would do the job for others if needed, it isn't hard, and I am a pensioner (LOL) you know.
    #39
  41. 45bvtc
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    45bvtc Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 9, 2012]
    I think it time you posted your letter from Martin Sander, Director of Audi UK, so that we can ALL be advised of his authorised response to this issue. I for one would love to see it, an ex Technical Director myself.
    #40

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