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Ordered VAG OE revision DV for S3

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by warren_S5, Jun 3, 2009.

  1. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 3, 2009]
    Since I have gone stage 2, I have noticed a marginal amount of DV flutter under full load.

    One option was to back the boost off using the Revo Select switch, but that would be sensible and cheap. Instead I have decided to throw a few quid at the revised OE VAG diverter valve:

    New revised DV (link - see bottom of page)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Older style DV (not my DV - web pics)

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Ordered from JKM last night for about £50 inc postage. It looks OE, will raise no eyebrows when serviced, and should hopefully have better performance than the earlier revision version.

    Will feedback with any observations once it's been fitted.

    Cheers

    Warren
    #1
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  3. DaveS3Turbo
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    DaveS3Turbo Sepang Blue S3

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    [Jun 3, 2009]
    How do you know what dv you have fitted. Mine being an 09 is it likely to have the newer oem dv fitted.

    David
    #2
  4. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 3, 2009]
    Some time in '08 these became standard issue. Couldn't say when though, so yours is fine. On the pre revision ones, the orange gasket ruptured over time.
    #3
  5. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    New DV arrived this morning, so I have used my lunch break to go and fit it. Truly is a 20 minute job at tops if your not taking photos of the task.

    JKM sent the new DV for £40+VAT + registered next day post (around £50 in all), and here is a close up (including part number):

    [​IMG]

    The major change to this revision D diverter valve is that there is no longer any soft perishable rubber bits on the plunger to overheat and be compromised. The new plunger head is hard plastic.

    I also noticed when testing the plunger mechanism by hand, that they (the Japanese as its now made in Japan) have engineered a step into the piston action to create an initial friction in the movement before the valve then retracts. This is NOT present on the early unit which just opens freely. I am VERY much hoping this will remove any flutter.

    [​IMG]

    I decided I wanted this to be an easy job, and wanted to do it without removing the engine cover. I have a Halfrauds Pro tool box (quantity as opposed to outright quality of parts), and this came in useful to build a very long tool to get to the bolts.

    [​IMG]

    TOOLS USED:

    T30 Torx
    1/4" adaptor for attachments
    Universal joint (1/4")
    2-3 extenders (1/4" sized)
    Ratchet or screwdriver handle (1/4")

    JOB TIME: 15-20 mins
    JOB DIFFICULTY: Simple

    Now first I realised particularly with the larger intake, the torx bolts were not all accessible. However there is a hanger bolt which stabilises the DV unit against the engine bay (as you look into the engine bay from the front of the car this is the bolt furthest to the left but nearest the engine itself - you can't miss it, it's the only one with a black metal bracket attached to it). Take great care not to drop the bolt into the bay (like I did). Once this is removed, you can move the DV towards you to remove the remaining 3 torx bolts.

    Picture 1 - Remove the locator torx bolt
    [​IMG]


    PICTURE 2: Locator bolt removed
    [​IMG]

    PICTURE 3: Use universal joint to get around obstacles to the bolts
    [​IMG]

    PICTURE 5: Remove all torx bolts
    [​IMG]

    COMPARING THE DV's

    As you can see thre is a significant difference in the size of the heads on the plunger. Also the design concept has changed considerably indicating the 2008 revision unit was significantly flawed.

    [​IMG]

    I decided to deconstruct the old style DV to look inside and see what made it tick. My valve was in perfect condition internally, but just purely lacked the capacity with the extra boost, to hold back the pressure until release was actuated.

    [​IMG]

    I then refitted the new valve (YOU WILL SEE IN THE PHOTOS THERE IS A LITTLE MOUNTING LOCATOR LIKE A ROUND PLASTIC SPOT - ENSURE YOU LOCATE THE DV WITH THIS IN PLACE!!!), conducted the reverse of the above instructions, and reconnected the electrical contact connector to the head of the DV. I fired the car up, and started as sweet as a nut. No engine lights or problems, so when I go out tonight to see Stealth wagon hopefully I'll be able to give it a test and see if the stepped resistance of the new style DV can hold the boost better.

    [​IMG]

    PLEASE BE SURE TO CHECK YOUR DV MODEL NUMBER BEFORE EMBARKING ON THIS MOD. I AM NOT CERTAIN WHEN IN 2008 IT WILL HAVE BECOME THE STANDARD ISSUE PART, BUT CHECK THE REVISION LETTER AT THE END OF THE PART NUMBER BEFORE BUYING ONE.

    THE PART NUMBER OF THE LATEST REVISION DV IS MADE IN JAPAN PART NO: 06H-145-710-D
    SEE BELOW

    [​IMG]

    THE PART NUMBER OF THE EARLIER VERSION DV IS MADE IN GERMANY PART NO: 06F-145-710-C
    (SEE BELOW)
    [​IMG]

    As always, any questions just ask away.

    Next mod, whiter daylight running bulbs!!
    #4
  6. Simon H
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    Simon H New Member

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    Hi mate,
    I think the fluttering you are now hearing, is coming from the turbo wastegate, and not the dump valve, due to your higher boost levels, regards, SIMON.
    #5
  7. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    Well now I'm REALLY confused.
    #6
  8. VRStu
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    VRStu Just Looking VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    Nice write up Warren.
    #7
  9. boggym
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    boggym Member

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    Nice work Warren, I'll be interested to see how this turns out. I've been running stage 2+ for a while now and the "flutter" noise is quite obvious. I took my DV out the other day to check and it's the older orange one but showed no signs of wear. I've not done any checks with Vagcom but I get the feeling between 3000 - 4000rpm (when the flutter is most worse) the power tails off slightly, after 4000 it hits hard again which is strange as I think the turbo is producing most of its initial boost just after 3000. I was going to back off the boost setting (currently 9) to see if I noticed a difference and whether the flutter goes away but again, haven't had time yet.

    Keep us informed, I might be joining you in an upgrade!

    Chris
    #8
  10. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    Flutter (appears) to be gone.

    Need to give it one more proper caning at the weekend, but I honestly believe part of the problem with the OE DV could not maintain boost. Surge felt sustained and hard tonight, but then the air temp was much cooler so want to confirm this with warm day air temps.

    Went to see Andy Oram (Big Andy S3 / Stealth) tonight, and that is a proper S3. Thread with photos to follow tomorrow. What a revelation. Made my car feel impotent!
    #9
  11. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    I'm not convinced about this. Although I now have a Forge I had my pre-revision OEM DV on whilst I was running both Stage 1 and Stage 2+ and did loads of Vagcom logging. The OEM DV held boost at steady pressures of 1.5/1.6 (even 1.7) right through the midrange and beyond. From the measurements I took the OEM valve has no problem holding pressure - even Revo Stage 2+ pressure on Boost 9. The only reason I have a Forge now is because I had an opportunity to get a new one for £40 and I like the noise - but the OEM DV was more than up to the job. The K04 turbo is maxed out at around 1.6 anyway.
    #10
  12. Staz
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    Staz is a retronaut Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 4, 2009]
    Why is flutter a bad thing anyway? My mate had an ED30 and fitted a forge and his made the same noise mine does now since I fitted the Evoms.
    #11
  13. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 5, 2009]
    DV's on VAG cars have been notoriously unreliable for years. Some have been through so many revisions they end up half way round the alphabet.

    I take your point with the above, but if the OE DV was up to the job, why would VAG spend the money having it redeveloped so radically away from the C specification. It's not 'value engineered' as such because the body is the same, just with different internals. If you talk to many tuners they will openly admit that it is a weak spot and a likely point of failure once you run significant upgrades. Because I wasn't logging the car at the time we heard the flutter noise I cannot confirm 100% that it was DV related, but both parties in the car immediately from the sound/characteristics said that it sounded DV like (and between us we must have 30 odd years of VAG experience - not to say that we were guaranteed to be right).

    This thread is as much about highlighting the differences in the revisions as opposed to saying 'buy this DV, it will change your car for the better'. So far all signs on the 25 odd miles I have driven is that pick up is very slightly improved, and I don't seem to be getting the same flutter at the red line (but I caviat that with wanting to do more long term testing in more extreme conditions). Also I think in part this provides '07/early '08 cars an alternative to the Forge should their valve fail, as there aren't a surplus of Forge DV's kicking about at £40, particularly if owners are intent on keeping an OE look.

    The OE DV may have been more than up to the job, but having perishable parts it is far more likely to fail. This option is less likely to leave you at the side of the road waiting for the 4th emergency service to coming rolling by.
    #12
  14. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jun 5, 2009]
    I definitely agree that the unit is a weak point which is prone to failure - I suppose I was just trying to clarify that before failure it isn't necessarily a weak point in terms of holding boost.

    I think the reasons VAG engineered a replacement are because the old version could (and did) fail - not because it struggles to hold boost when the unit is intact. My understanding was that the unit only failed on those cars where the DV is adjacent to the heat of the turbo (i.e. not the S3).

    I see this as a debate very similar to the after-market exhaust or intake debate. Why replace a part which isn't broken and which adds minimal performance gains ? I'm not sure - and I hasten to add I have replaced the intake, exhaust AND DV on my car so I am not criticising anyone who does. Like me, I imagine you concluded that £40 was a price worth paying - I for one wouldn not have spent over £100 on it. EVOMs do a replacement DV which retails for over £200. That is pure madness.
    #13
  15. kevbev
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    kevbev New Member

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    carbon fibre air box, where from and how much??? :hubbahubba:
    #14
  16. akash_sky1
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    akash_sky1 Active Member

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    [Mar 5, 2010]
    So this is the second revision for the DV? Also I too thought it was only the K03 engines that suffered from DV problems due to it being bolted directly to the turbo and not being to last under normal or increased boost/temps?
    #15
  17. thelomondaudigroup
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    thelomondaudigroup Member

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    [Mar 6, 2010]
    This is wierd this has been brought up here. Before the S3 I had 2 Golf GTI's. I went from a 3 door to a 5-door..

    [​IMG]

    Anyways, the first time I drove the 5-door (newest addition) it just didn't feel the same as the 3-door, finally I came to the conclusion there was a lack of power somewhere, after 3 garages noone could give me any answers, so I put it into Revo to map (who also said they couldn't find anything wrong and mapped it anyway)

    On picking the car up from them, there was little or no performance difference at all, and had it out with them, they said they had done everything and the map was definatly on, but the car was just not boosting properly. So I investigated further on some vdub forums..

    It was either..
    Boost Control Valve
    [​IMG]

    Emmisions Control Valve
    [​IMG]

    After fitting both of these the car felt slightly better, but stil not the way it should be, so back to the drawing board..

    I got this....
    [​IMG]

    And suprise, suprise, you guessed it, look closely at the old one..
    [​IMG]

    Total cost: £715.46 (including map)
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2010
    #16
  18. S3RYE
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    S3RYE Interior Next!!

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    [Mar 6, 2010]
    Total cost: £715.46 (including map)[/QUOTE]

    ouch expensive DV valve lol :faint:
    #17

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