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Ok so my car has been fixed. BUT

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by S3 TRS, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Jan 26, 2011]
    My car is a 2002 (B6) A4 Avant 2.5 TDI 163 Multitronic (non quattro)

    August last year coming back from Audi in the Park was not a good day for me.
    Just 10 mins from home my car came to a stop whilst driving on the motorway. Turns out two pulleys had snapped shredding the cam belt all over the engine bay.

    Months later that problem is fixed, with 4 new camshafts, all new valves, rockers and many other bits and pieces.

    However i have a problem now which i didnt have before.
    On accelerating from standing or whilst moving it feels like it has little/no power. That is until around 2400rpm when the turbo boost kicks in and the car starts accelerating forward.

    It just feels kinda like limp mode but there is nothing to say that it is in limp mode, especially since i can get to 80mph.

    There is simply no power in putting your foot down, the revs go up, a little slower if memory serves me and as i said not much pulling till the boost kicks in.

    The gearbox seems like either it doesnt know what to do, but its meant to be a learning box, but im not sure what its trying to cope with like lack of power or what.

    The fuel gauge sits on half full, and says 100 miles range ! i can usually get around 230 miles from half a tank. as it happens, i sent off the car to get repaired (after it broke down the first time) and it had around 1/4 of a tank of diesel. when i went to pick it up it was completley empty, past empty in fact, the needle couldnt move further to the left!

    i put a gallon in the tank and after 15 mins, it said i had 1/2 a tank!

    now im thinking that since the car is relying on the turbo a considerable time of accelerating, that is using more fuel and hence the crappy 19 mpg or less instead of the 35mpg average i was getting pre breakdown.

    I have changed the MAF sensor, disconnected it, and no difference.

    It is much better when the engine is warm, pulls a little better but still weak. on cold, it has to get high revs to even move, like 2500rpm or more. and dont even try to reverse when cold. it basically just tells me dont bother im not doing that! eventually after a little persuasion it will though.

    Ive got the mechanic to check for a few things after looking on this forum but none have made a difference.

    ive also looked up about the fact it could be a cracked cylinder head, but its not really exerting any symptoms which i had to look up.

    By the way, it has had a clean bill of health ie no errors from the VAGCOM. no warning lights or anything. It also has a little trouble (just a bit) of turning over when cold. ie takes a little longer than usual.

    i also think that it is worth noting that on flooring it, there is no black smoke out of the exhaust as before, and the revs seem to get higher quicker but that just makes the turbo kick in a little sooner. thats all that happens.


    This has me stumped and its really annoying. If anyone can help id be very greatful!
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2011
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  3. vinesh
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    vinesh Member

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    [Jan 26, 2011]
    I was going to say a boost leak, but you mention there is no black smoke.

    Have you got vagcom to check for any faults?
    #2
  4. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 26, 2011]
    What a ballache after all you've been through. I know how you feel as I was at my wits end in getting mine sorted after the same engine malfunction.

    My only other thoughts are a fuel pump problem or a boost problem. Have you had the turbo looked at?
    #3
  5. rturner
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    rturner New Member

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    [Jan 26, 2011]
    i would get the fuel pump timing checked.... it can be done with vag com, see whether it is too far advanced or retarded, if its out it can be hard to start when cold and can feel like the car is holding back. A garage with vag com should be able to do this for you and adjust it if its out. Has to be done with the car warmed up and only takes 30 mins at the most
    #4
  6. donsajid
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    donsajid Member

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    [Jan 26, 2011]
    i would tend to agree that particularly as you have had work done to cambelt etc, this does sound like an issue with your timing and that might be a good place to start looking for possible issues....
    #5
  7. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Jan 26, 2011]
    Thanks for the suggestions thus far.

    the mechanic said he had checked out the turbo and it was fine. He has a VAGCOM device but its a generic all car brands one. i am thinking its maybe not 100% Compatible with what VAGCOM does possibly and that it might be the best idea to ring audi tomorrow morning to see if i can get it booked in.

    just discussing the problem with my friend (non mechanic) but it does logically seem like its not getting enough fuel, hence the hesitation/lack of power but then am i right in thinking that because its having to rely on the turbo more sucks more fuel in leading to crappy mpg or am i way off?

    However, it is booked in with the mechanic who originally fixed it on saturday, but im inclined to think that audi works on their engines all of the time and would be able to time everything correctly for me first go.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2011
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  8. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Jan 26, 2011]
    Did you get yours back and it feel exactly the same after the rebuild or not? what differences if any or problems did you encounter?

    Thanks
    #7
  9. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 26, 2011]
    I did have a problem with the fuel pump timing, it was pretty sluggish and thirsty until it was sorted, similar symptoms as yours but less extreme. I'd definitely start by getting a full VAGCom scan and the timing double checked before you go any further.

    Long story short....

    My idler pulley failed and the belt skipped four teeth and wrecked the engine. On the advice of my mechanic I sourced a second hand but (allegedly) refubished engine and had that fitted as it was thought to be more cost effective. This never ran right, and I had booked to a specialist for the pump timing etc, but 6 days after I got it back the tensioner pulley broke and wrecked the engine. Again.

    So it went back to the engine supplier for a warranty repair, which took over 6 weeks, and ended up in all my new wheels being damaged, oil ALL over the interior etc.... Finally got it back and it was still running badly. Back to the specialist and they diagnosed a bad injector and needle valve error, and said that in their opinion the timing belt didn't look new! I had lost all faith in the engine supplier so dug deep and had the specialist replace thermostat, water pump, all timing gear etc. It cost me dear but I knew I had a good engine then, and in fairness touch wood it hasn't missed a beat since then and runs faultlessly now, and has done for the last two years.

    That wasn't a very happy time for me!
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  10. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Jan 26, 2011]

    christ! that seems like a complete nightmare! glad its all sorted now though. How much it end up costing if i can ask?

    im deffo gonna look at the timing now. i mean everything was working fine before the cambelt snap!

    just wish i didnt go to birmingham that weekend and my car would be fine and i would be £3000 better off !!!
    #9
  11. vinesh
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    vinesh Member

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    [Jan 27, 2011]
    Hi trs888,

    Instead of taking the car to Audi for diagnostics, do you have any Audi specialist near you or see if there is a forum member near you with VAGCOM?

    Hi quattrojames,

    What a nightmare. Glad its all sorted now.
    #10
  12. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Jan 27, 2011]



    I don't think there is anyone near me. I'm in Sunderland. North east.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
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  13. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 27, 2011]
    £4500 :(

    I try not to think about it, I learnt a lot doing it and in hindsight would have done things a lot differently, but I was very unlucky too.

    It's done now so I can't change it, it's just realigned how long I need to keep the car for and how much I can spend on it!
    #12
  14. Turkster
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    Turkster Bro.Paul 2.5TDI Quattro Sport

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    [Jan 27, 2011]
    fuel delivery system mate, im sure one of the lads has already said it, timing sounds out if you ask me, also a new fuel filter would not go a miss at this stage just in-case there is a blockage in there too,
    #13
  15. vinesh
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    vinesh Member

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    [Jan 27, 2011]
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  16. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Feb 13, 2011]
    Ok so for an update:

    Car has been into S-Cars since thursday 3rd Feb.

    The fuel filter was changed, and the fuel lines were flushed and the problem remained.

    Current situation is that things have been checked out and signs point toward injectors and or the fuel pump. The fuel pump will be removed and sent off for testing. They are pretty sure it is the pump though.
    bad news about the price though, £700 plus VAT for the pump minus the cost of the diagnostics/testing. gonna take another week to see if it is the problem for sure.

    i just want my car back fixed and no more effing problems!

    quattrojames : looks like mine is creeping up to what you paid then! - **** :(
    #15
  17. donsajid
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    donsajid Member

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    [Feb 13, 2011]
    how much is the labour gonna be to fit the pump? i had mine done and the whole job was roughly 1200GBP on me v6.
    #16
  18. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Feb 13, 2011]
    700 + VAT off the £1200 price tag, but price also includes all the time it took to diagnose and test up to now etc, ok i think!
    #17
  19. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 13, 2011]
    I feel for you buddy, same happened to me and the cost just kept creeping up. But when you've spent that much you gotta keep going till it's right really.
    #18
  20. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Feb 13, 2011]
    well its not all bad, i bought the car in 2008 for half the price of similar examples and im still a few quid up but of course it always happens when you are a little short on cash!
    #19
  21. the jammy one
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    the jammy one Member

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    [Feb 13, 2011]
    i realy wish i never read this i had same problems as you guys on mine 2002 a4 avant and i noticed the sluggishness that is described but havent thought anything of it untill now i thought the nightmare was over doesnt look like now though damb mine wa rubbish to start after rebuild but changed the glow plugs and its much better. dont want to hijack the thread but mine seems to be black smokey here and there and does sound as though i have a boost leak as i have a loud sucking noise and also loud umping noise sounds like some tuned jap car lol maybe mines this?
    #20
  22. donsajid
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    donsajid Member

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    [Feb 13, 2011]
    on the up side, you will have a car which should be good for 100K+ with regular servicing and camblet changes. Also, don't forget to periodically, say every 25,000 or 2 years, change the transmission fluid, cause them gearboxes are bloody expensive to put right too as I have found out to my cost.
    #21
  23. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Feb 13, 2011]

    sorry to hear that. must be so frustrating to have major problems again. all i can suggest is get a specialist to check out the problems, i think £30 + VAT per hour is a great price for specialist advice/diagnostics so you can see if its worth keeping or looking for something else or not. it may be as simple as a split pipe for the boost leak though.

    i think seeing as ive spent so much on mine already im gonna keep it forever and get it back to showroom condition (over time) and i am talking years probably decades here lol

    the thing that gets me the most apart from the £££ is the waiting. why does it take a week to take off the fuel pump and get a diagnostics? everything in the UK seems to take FAR longer than needed.
    #22
  24. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 13, 2011]
    Showroom condition eh? Let me know when the S4 bumpers come off please ;)

    In all seriousness, that's the same plans I have for mine really - I can't see it being chopped in anytime soon.
    #23
  25. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Feb 13, 2011]
    well i meant get it like it was new, not revert back to SE parts lol

    i think mine would rather sit in a garage in "stasis" for a few years rather than be traded in. who knows, maybe even a complete engine swap to the 3.0 TDI and a new gearbox and chipping it to who knows what!

    or i could probably get a new Q7 for the same price lol
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  26. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 13, 2011]
    Probably, but which would you rather have ..... ?

    I remember when I was looking for a new engine for mine I found a 3.0TDi engine for not much more, I mentioned it to my mechanic who didn't seem to share my enthusiasm for some reason. Makes me think it would probably have worked out cheaper at would be super unique now!
    #25
  27. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Feb 13, 2011]
    probably a q7 if im honest lol!

    wouldnt the engine swap cause other problems tho like a new ecu possibly, deffo transmission, mine is a multitronic cvt box, and 3.0 tdi is tiptronic if im not mistaken, plus other stuff like suspension loads etc
    #26
  28. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 13, 2011]
    Yes it would have been a lot of work and expensive, but it ended up being that anyway! And at least I would have been paying for something better and unique rather than for more of the same.

    Mine's a manual anyway, so that part of it would have been ok lol!
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  29. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Feb 13, 2011]
    well thats one of the reasons i got this car, auto. i just got sick of manuals and decided i wanted a nice relaxing car to drive but something with a bit of oomph. my family has had mostly autos anyway and i prefer them. My dads got a 645 BMW and i borrowed that when mine packed up and it would have been a nightmare using manual in that!
    #28
  30. the jammy one
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    the jammy one Member

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    [Feb 14, 2011]
    auto all th way as you can over ride it anyway lol. yeh im guna have to try anget someone with vagcom near me who knows there stuff to have alook so anyone near southport reading this ;) i think iknow where the boost leak is just cant find the part its the metal pipe that runs inbetween the intercoolers tryed patching it with metal putty but sure it still leaking tried ebay but no look as yet. also thanks for gearbox advise will get on that one weekend no doubt it will be a nightmare to do as is everything else lol.im with you on keeping forever haha i decided to just go hell out on it now to much money in it to sell currentl facelifted and being booked in for a full 3m carbon wrap haha ill either love it or hate it but what the heck. yes things take to long over here indeed ill have to get pump timing checked first as im sure i move the pulley just slightly but even that can make big difference. let me know how you get on as i hope it sorts your problems and you can finaly smile at your car again rather than wantingto kick f'#k out of it lol
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  31. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 15, 2011]
    Personally I've never been a fan of auto's, admittedly I've only ever driven two Auto A4's (both 2.5's) and one of them had the steering wheel gear change, which was a novelty but after the first few weeks I couldn't see me using it much! A gimmick really.

    I didn't have either car for long enough to get to know it really, but even in 'manual' mode I found the gearbox was very much in charge, it would still change up when it was ready, and wouldn't let me change down until it was ready etc, so not for me I'm afraid.

    I've only ever driven tiptronics, never multitronics.
    #30
  32. Nutkin
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    Nutkin Member

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    [Feb 15, 2011]
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  33. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 15, 2011]
    That's not for an injection pump though.
    #32
  34. donsajid
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    donsajid Member

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    [Feb 15, 2011]
    on the v6 its a Bosch VP44 pump which is ~£700 for a refurbished one, brand new its about £2200 i think. Then there is the labour of doing the work, front end off etc..
    #33
  35. swarcup
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    swarcup Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 15, 2011]
    thats the first fuel pump in the tank that lifts fuel to the high pressure pump sat between the engine v's. The high pressure one is the expensive one at around £1200. Usually when the stop working its the ecu control bit on the pump that brakes and the pump itself is ok.

    2 answers while typing dohh:keule:
    #34
  36. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 15, 2011]
    What a bunch of cowboys !!! Why they need to flush the fuel lines when there is fuel getting to the injector pump and the car has no trouble starting ?! Go and see someone that knows them v6 mate and stop wasting your money on wrong diagnostics ! If you fancy driving to London, i could time the pump for you- there is no need to remove the bumpers for replacing the VP44 injector pump- it's tight but doable ! In the event of the injector pump beeing the culprit then i can get them rebuilt by dieselbob for about 700 quid and i would only charge you labour to fit and time the pump. STOP WASTING MONEY, its bad garages who give a bad name to v6 tdi engines because they dont know to work on them !!! The v6 tdi engines are brilliant.
    #35
  37. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 15, 2011]
    +1
    #36
  38. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Feb 15, 2011]

    the car does have trouble starting but only from cold, thanks for that offer though, id not make it to london in this condition. it would take me forever and cost an absolute fortune in fuel! even if my car didnt have the current 17mpg. they already confirmed timing was fine, as did the mechanic who rebuilt the engine. ive never used them before but i am happy with them so far.
    #37
  39. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Feb 20, 2011]
    Update:

    Went down saturday to see the car. Its had a reconditioned fuel pump fitted and it has made a massive difference! the car pulls so much better now. not relying on the just the turbo to accelerate it any more!

    im really happy with that but Stu at S-Cars said it still wasnt 100%. When you are driving along the road, and lift off the accelerator, the car seems to brake and go to the speed of as if you were standing still, put it in Drive and lift off the brake pedal. ie edging forward as automatics usually do.

    He is gonna try and reprogram the gearbox ecu, and associated ecus and do another emissions test and also compression test. there are a coupple of things it could be. im only hoping that the injectors are ok. they are £200 each and the car has 6! i was told that one single injector has been changed which is different to the other 5, the name of which i forget.

    just have to wait till next mid week to find out if its gonna be ok. im happy with the progress thats being made as i really want to get the car back to 100% now with minimal cost. They are a really good garage at S-Cars in spennymoor.
    #38
  40. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 20, 2011]
    I'm glad you're getting somewhere mate. I know someone else who uses S-Cars (I think..) and he speaks very highly of them too.

    Are the injectors really £200 each??
    #39
  41. S3 TRS
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    S3 TRS Active Member

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    [Feb 20, 2011]
    thanks quattrojames, i think they are, he said around £200 each. i hope i never have to find out! lol

    btw, i changed my 6000k HID for 4300K and im sooooo glad i did. the look is better and a noticeable difference in light output too! id recommend them to you!

    i have some eibach dampners in my sitting room waiting to be fitted. just gotta get the springs to match and then it will be 30mm lower! ive had them since december :( but engine comes first tho!
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2011
    #40

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