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Oil Catch Can mini group buy anyone? including PCV system simplification.

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by OllieH, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    Count me in on this to i have been wanting to tidy up the engine bay for a while. Seems a good start:icon_thumright:
    #41
  2. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    Ok, let us know on their prices.:icon_thumright:

    Can and hose?
    #42
  3. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    Just got the email back from Saikoumichi regarding the offset bracket (as shown in post #19). The offset bracket IS included with the catch can, including the two small bolts that hold it on.
    #43
  4. Imteyaz
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    Imteyaz 6th Gear

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    Cool, count me in for the 2 cans, I'll get on to the hose company tonight if they're still open and see what prices I can get (if they can help).
    #44
  5. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    Ok, the updated list is:

    1. OllieH - Can & Hose
    2. Imteyaz - Can x 2
    3. Speedy Steve - Can & Hose?

    I'm without computer access from tonight till Sunday night, so if anyone wishes to join this list, please feel free to copy and paste it, attaching their name and requirement.
    #45
  6. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    1. OllieH - Can & Hose
    2. Imteyaz - Can x 2
    3. Speedy Steve - Can & Hose?
    4. Morgan-VAGCHECK - Can & Hose
    #46
  7. Imteyaz
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    Imteyaz 6th Gear

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    Hi guys, just managed to get a quote for some hose locally. Known as 'R6 hose', it is actually an 'oil hose' and can handle temps of upto 120deg C, internal diameter of 3/4" (19mm) and is sold at £7.88/metre.

    I was told that an order of 10m would come to £70 if paid in cash. The hose comes in black only but it sounds like over and above what we need it for. 10m should do 5 cars IIRC so that comes in at £14 per can (2m each) less than half the cost of Hosequip. I forgot to ask if they do T-pieces for the 19mm ID hose, will ask when I get another opportunity....
    #47
  8. Speedy Steve
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    Speedy Steve Active Member

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    Yep can and hose for me.
    #48
  9. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    1. OllieH - Can & Hose
    2. Imteyaz - Can x 2
    3. Speedy Steve - Can & Hose?
    4. Morgan-VAGCHECK - Can & Hose
    5. 1Animal1 - Can & Hose
    #49
  10. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    sod it :)
    #50
  11. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    Ok then, if everyone is happy to use this company, then that saves us a bit of cash. As this company is local to you and they want a cash payment, could you run with this side of the group buy? Maybe you could find out what likely postage costs are going to be for the 2 metres of hose to each person, just so we all know what the all in price is :icon_thumright:
    #51
  12. Imteyaz
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    Imteyaz 6th Gear

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    No probs, once we get the final numbers, I'll be happy to go and get the hose for everyone. P&P should be around £3-5 tops I would imagine.

    I'll try give them a call tomorrow to find out if they can supply the T-Pieces and I also have another car parts manufacturer in mind (again local) that may also be able to get hold of the hose so I'll give them a call too.

    How many people do we need before we can place the order for the groupbuy?
    #52
  13. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    Well, three was the original number, and then they agreed to supply any more that we needed. We now have 6 cans wanted so I can order at any time. I was going to leave the group buy open to Wednesday, but I think we've had all the interest now. What I'll do is email Saikoumichi tonight with the number wanted, so they can give me the final shipping cost. I'll then post up with my payment details and go from there :icon_thumright:
    #53
  14. Imteyaz
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    Imteyaz 6th Gear

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    OK, I'll get on with sorting out the hoses tomorrow morning then, with a bit of luck, I should have a definitive answer from another supplier and I too will post up all the prices up as soon as possible.

    Maybe Mr. Saikoumichi can lower the prices even more now we have double the order! Either way, we have managed to get the price down to a more 'acceptable' level now and it would be rude not to go ahead.
    #54
  15. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    Won't get any more money knocked off now :). The original price was $105 which they then reduced to $90 for 3 cans, and then dropped to $85 for 3+ cans. You're right though, definately rude not to get them now. A good saving on the original price, especially with the cheaper hoses you've found :icon_thumright:
    #55
  16. Imteyaz
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    Imteyaz 6th Gear

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    OK, so I did a little research on the hoses, the second supplier can only supply 19mm ID water hoses, not oil hoses. Whilst he believes that as we are only dealing with oil vapour, it should hold up to the job well. It's cost is comparative to the R6 oil hose so it's a no brainer, may as well go for the proper stuff.

    Speaking to the first supplier, they can do 19mm ID T-pieces for the hoses but they only have them in white and at a cost of 5.45+vat each (£6.40 for a bit of plastic, ouch..).

    I don't know know if Ebay / hosequip sell them any cheaper but it may be worthwhile checking. I'll check with the post office for prices on packaging and delivery for the hoses and get back to everyone here once I have some figures.
    #56
  17. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    just a quicky - appreciate all your efforts on this chaps
    #57
  18. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Ollie count me in for this too. I've been wanting to sort this out for a while now.
    #58
  19. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    Yeah, not worth paying that for the T-piece, especially in white. I'm sure I've seen some on Ebay for fairly cheap, and I've also read somewhere that the likes of Homebase/B&Q etc, sell these T-pieces for plumbing purposes. Will have a look. Don't really want to ring Hosequip asking for just the T-pieces when they have already quoted me for the hose and T-pieces together.

    No problems, happy to help.

    Ok, will add you to the list.
    #59
  20. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    1. OllieH - Can & Hose
    2. Imteyaz - Can x 2
    3. Speedy Steve - Can & Hose
    4. Morgan-VAGCHECK - Can & Hose
    5. 1Animal1 - Can & Hose
    6. Westle - Can & Hose

    :icon_thumright:
    #60
  21. S3-Chris
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    S3-Chris If its not broke....break it!!

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    so whats total cost for full kit delivered?
    #61
  22. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    At the moment we are looking at £65 delivered for the catch can and about another £20 for the hose and T-piece. Imteyaz is running with the hose side of things, and is still waiting for a definate price. I have just emailed saikoumichi for a confirmed delivered price for 7 cans, so if you want in on this, let me know asap so I can send another email asking for 8, before they reply to the first email.

    Likewise, anyone else considering joining this group buy, make your minds up fast because as soon as we get a confirmed price I will be accepting payments and then ordering. :icon_thumright:
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
    #62
  23. J B
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    J B Member

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    I think I need to be getting myself in on this action! Cheers for sorting it Ollie & Imteyaz:icon_thumright:

    1. OllieH - Can & Hose
    2. Imteyaz - Can x 2
    3. Speedy Steve - Can & Hose
    4. Morgan-VAGCHECK - Can & Hose
    5. 1Animal1 - Can & Hose
    6. Westle - Can & Hose
    7. J B - Can & Hose
    #63
  24. Imteyaz
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    Imteyaz 6th Gear

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    Wow, 8 cans! Anymore for anymore? Roll up, roll up....
    #64
  25. J B
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    J B Member

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    I figured I have to start the modding somewhere! This seemed as good place as any! :yes:
    #65
  26. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    Good man. Where abouts in Hampshire are you? I'm in Gosport, so you may save some delivery cost.
    #66
  27. J B
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    J B Member

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    Folks live near to Basingstoke so the other end of the county but quite often down in Southsea/Portsmouth for a day out with the Mrs! So would be no trouble collecting one saturday!
    #67
  28. The Doctor
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    The Doctor Well-Known Member

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    Just read through your extensive thread & links and now have a headache! Basically I'd like to know what the expected benefit of this mod is / the expected problem is without it. I may bump the order up to 9 cans.
    #68
  29. Imteyaz
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    Imteyaz 6th Gear

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    Same goes for those around the Coventry / Warwickshire area that will be ordering the hose and T-Piece, once the GB is closed and orders placed / monies paid, anyone that wants to collect in person can send me a PM and I'll give those people my address.
    #69
  30. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    Ok, we'll discuss this closer to the time.
    #70
  31. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    Ok, I'll try to explain this the best I can without writing a full essay :)

    The PCV system uses the vacuum in the inlet manifold (at idle) to draw air through from the TIP, which acts to force ventilate the rocker cover and crankcase. The oily vapour that is vented from the rocker and crankcase go straight into the inlet manifold and into the engine, being burnt along with the fuel. Likewise, when you are accelerating and the turbo is boosting up, a vacuum is created in the TIP which draws air out of the PCV system, venting the rocker and crankcase into the TIP. So oily vapours are getting into the TIP, turbo, boost pipes, SMIC's and the engine, which not only make a mess of the inside of all the pipework, it also effectively reduces the RON rating of the fuel by increasing the chances of detonation (combustion mixture igniting before top dead centre, due to the contaminants).

    Quite often, the case is worse than this as the PCV system gets blocked up with emulsified oil, and this gunge ends up getting drawn through the engine aswell. Not good! The gunge also acts to stop the one way/check valves from working, which are there to prevent boost pressure from the inlet manifold pressurising the rocker and crankcase. Lastly, as our cars are getting on abit now, the rubber hoses in the PCV system are starting to perish and go brittle etc. This leads to vacuum and boost leaks, which is what has happened recently to myself and many others on the forum, hence the frequent posts about air leaks, hose splits etc, etc.

    As the PCV system is only there for manufacturers to meet emission laws (not MOT emissions), there is no real need to have it. It is basically there to stop the oily vapours from being vented to atmosphere, which isn't very green. With this oil catch can, the rocker and crankcase breathers go directly into the can, which seperates the oil from the gas, and then allows the oil free gas to pass into the TIP and into the engine, (although now it has no effect on engine performance.) The vacuum nipples from the inlet manifold are blanked as they are no longer needed, which negates all the vacuum pipework under the inlet manifold which is likely to split. Cleaner engine, better performance, job done :icon_thumright:

    HTH
    #71
  32. The Doctor
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    The Doctor Well-Known Member

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    BRILLIANT explanation, thanks. My headache has gone. Put me down for one, plus the hoses etc required.

    I am due to take a trip down to Selsey soon, so could collect the can on the way.

    Cheers,
    Paul.
    #72
  33. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    there is a need to have it. crank case vacuum.

    as for your group buy, specifically the hoses. the hose you use needs to be capable of handling breather duties. blow by gasses make normal rubber and plastic go brittle and fall apart
    #73
  34. Imteyaz
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    Imteyaz 6th Gear

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    Thanks for the info Matt, the hoses that we are going for (known as 'R6 oil hose') are primarily used to carry oil, they have a max working temperature of 120degC and should be upto the job according to the suppliers, who incidently are specialists in hoses and fixings.
    #74
  35. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    terrific. i had to do my catch tank twice due to the original hoses not being quite up to it.

    its extremely potent stuff. ive seen it completely discolour bright blue slilcon hoses in the past too
    #75
  36. S3-Chris
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    S3-Chris If its not broke....break it!!

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    put me down too.... £85 quid then delivered... sweet!
    #76
  37. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    :icon_thumright: Thanks for that Matt. As Imteyaz has already said, this has already been arranged previously in the thread.

    From what I've read, the PCV system is designed to maintain the crankcase at slightly less than atmospheric pressure. This is to prevent any oil seeping past the sump gasket etc, and into atmosphere. I.e. if pressure on the outside is greater than the pressure on the inside, the only way anything can seep past the gasket is from outside to inside, rather than the other way round, which would increase emissions. This is purely designed for emission laws and is not essential for the correct running of the engine. As long as the crankcase is allowed to vent the blow-by gases, everything is ok. The PRV valve (hockey puck) is retained on the setup we want to do, so this will regulate the pressure in the catch can system anyway. The only thing that is different is the vacuum lines from the manifold and the suction jet pump, which only come into effect at the moment on idle. Most other cars do not have this PCV system anyway.

    This exact setup has been used many times on the uk-mkiv's forum and has been proven to improve the running of the engine.
    #77
  38. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    Sure, will add you on :icon_thumright:
    #78
  39. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    1. OllieH - Can & Hose
    2. Imteyaz - Can x 2
    3. Speedy Steve - Can & Hose
    4. Morgan-VAGCHECK - Can & Hose
    5. 1Animal1 - Can & Hose
    6. Westle - Can & Hose
    7. J B - Can & Hose
    8. The Doctor - Can & Hose
    9. S3-Chris - Can & Hose
    #79
  40. jonny87
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    jonny87 Active Member

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    im up for this too ollie, £85 is too much of a bargain to resist

    thanks to ollie & imteyaz for sorting this out :)

    ( 1can + hose please )
    #80

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