Noise when turning steering wheel

[John417]

Hi guys , as some of you might know i've been having handling issues with my tqs for couple of months my camber is all wrong on the passenger side front wheel but other then that there is no noticeable issue i mean all bushes arms shocks etc they'r all solid when checked there's no play upper control arms are pretty much new TRE less then 1500 miles on them and tracking done twice i've had two garages to check the suspension they both say there's no play anywhere car passed its mot without any advisory few months ago but as i've got the car for over 5 years i know there's something wrong by the way it handles and because i've got a 2000 miles trip ahead of me next week i want to sort it out before i set off and i dont really want to be changing parts just to find that its not the issue so im asking for help here to guide me in the right direction.

Here are couple of things to consider :
1. When coming to a stop the steering wheel sometimes moves to the left a lot
2. When taking a sharp RH turn it almost feels as if the car was gonna do a 180 spin on me.
3. When driving straight and i shake the steering wheel left to right slightly its not really turning the car like if the wheels were not really responding to the motion of the steering wheel but when stationary even a slight movement of the steering wheel moves the wheels.
4. The sound in the video , i noticed that today and i tried how it feels at the wheels when the steering wheel is moved like that and when the sound occurs you can feel some sort of ''tooth slip ' movement its a stupid name for it but thats how it feels at the wheels and i noticed the sound is worse when turned right.

VIDEO : ( You mind need headphones or really good speaker to hear the sound )

Any help would be appreciated , thank you.

 

[S4_dan]

Have you had the steering rack checked?

 

[John417]

I didnt but i did think about it after hearing the noise yesterday , the mechanic just tried to turn the steering wheel a little to see if the wheels react right away and they do so he figured the rack is fine but that noise must be coming from the rack i think cause all the bushes etc are fine there , can it be even checked while still on the car or does it have to be removed?

 

[John417]

I just spoke to a top guy at the local Audi and they are the first that would move the subframe to fix the camber but they have a 5 week waiting list and £156 an hour isnt really cheap but if that'll be my last option then ill just have to get it done and be done with it , he gave me some good tips and i will replace couple of parts but thought id ask here for part numbers or links so i can get the correct ones.

Rear bush that adjusts the camber on the rear axle
Front strut rubber that sits at the top forgot the exact name
Id change the passenger side shock and spring too cause i just remembered that around 3 years ago the driver side shock and spring were replaced by my brother when he drove the car so but not sure now if i should replace them both or just the passenger side ? Its got around 10k miles on it at the driver side so im thinking it shouldnt make a huge difference compared to new one?

 

[S4_dan]

Not sure, but worth checking the rack is tightly secured by it's fixings too.

Have a look on www.realoem.me for part numbers, that's a great site.

 

[John417]

I had a mechanic check the sound from the steering wheel and he said there's a slight play at the UJ ( universal joint ? ) at the bottom of the steering column , i can't find the universal joint part number anyone knows howmuch could that cost to repair ?

 

[John417]

Also i measured the clearance between the tyres and wheel arch on the front and on passenger side theres 12cm clearance and on drivers side its 14cm so the passenger side sits lower by 2cm so i'll be changing the shock/spring on that side for sure hopefully that and the UJ fixed will solve this handling problems.

 

[S4_dan]

Looks like the UJ is part of the steering column according to that website. It may be a separate part though.

If funds permit, then replace both front springs and shocks. Good practice to replace in pairs.

My old A4 used to lose the rear really easily and this was due to one spring and shock being replaced for an mot and the other probably being 5+ years old. I replaced both and it gripped the rear loads better.

 

[John417]

I'll put the car in a garage on monday and hopefully they'll find the issue , i know the shocks and spring should be replaced in pair but im thinking if its worth it considering the drivers side was replaced 10k miles ago ? I've got a pro kit for the car but im waiting for better shocks all round dont want to put these eibach on just yet. Hopefully the UJ can be replaced on its own im guessing the steering column is expensive to replace.

 

[Samuel c5 Q]

I replaced the steering column on my seat cordoba 6k5. I got the parts from tps, £70 or so it was a while ago. You could have a crack at it yourself or maybe £60-100 labour at an independent.

My front drivers side wheel scrubs and judders a bit because the subframe needs set. I tried to keep everything marked up when changing it out for another one but you can never get it where it's supposed to be like Audi.

The back end wanting to come round can be influenced by lack of input from the rear anti roll bar due to worn mounts/bushes or links. Also as some else said spring ratings/strength, ride height with a view to weight transfer and damper health can also affect the back end handling.

Suspension top mounts is the rubber that sits at the suspension turret.

Eibach pro kit springs and bilstein b8 dampers are the business.

 

[John417]

Thanks for the input mate , that's pretty cheap £70 for the steering column but im pretty sure it will be more then twice that for the Audi if it was the complete part but just the UJ should be pretty cheap hopefully it can be replaced on its own. Yeah the subframe must be a pain to get back properly im hoping that the shock/spring on the passenger side is causing the camber issue so hopefully changing that will solve it cause the guy at Audi told me that if one side sits lower then the other then it could affect the camber and since it does sit lower and i dont recall kerbing the wheels or something that could bent some suspension part im thinking it must be that. The back end i was thinking about the sway bar first aswell but there's no play at all even the arms bushes etc all seem solid every garage that had a look at it said it all looks fairly new and feels solid which is what makes it so freaking difficult to find the problem So far i got this theory : NSF shock/spring causing camber issue that affects handling especially on RH turns. Play at UJ contributes to this overall feeling of unstable car , and maybe i have a sticky caliper from time to time i noticed that sometimes when moving off i can hear the squeaky brakes sound i do have that coming from the rear pads when braking but i already heard that noise twice when i was not braking at all. These 3 things i think might be the issues that all together make this car feel so unstable.

Question about the rear bush that the camber adjustment bolt sits in , looking at the website i can find many arms bushes etc but i dont really know the exact one that i need. Does anyone know the part number or have a link ? Thank you.

 

[Samuel c5 Q]

I got the column and it was none adjustable. Not sure how much a uj would be. The column slides onto the uj splined half shaft. But I can't remember about the lower half. I have an A6 half stripped down. They might be similar to yours. I could have a look tomorrow and see how difficult it would be.

Zap7 I think it is has diagrams and part numbers. Google what happened to vagcat and it should come up.

Camber on the front end becomes more negative as it gets lower as the top arms are shorter than the bottom ones and as the suspension compresses the top end turns in a tighter radius than the bottom pulling the top of the tyre in more.

 

[John417]

If you could have a look at the UJ that would be great cause from what i was reading everywhere it seems that its not a serviceable item and i cant find the complete steering column anywhere only used ones on ebay so im guessing that the only place i could get a new one is Audi.

https://audi.7zap.com/en/rdw/audi+a4+s4+avant+quattro/a4q/2000-224/5/505-505035/ Looking at this im not sure if its number 2 or 4 ?

My camber issue is that on the drivers side its -1 . 27 and on the passenger side its 0. 06 and on the rear its about -0.20 passenger side - 0.45 drivers side , the car will be fully inspected tomorrow at a pretty good garage so im hoping they'll find out what are the problems with it.

 

[Samuel c5 Q]

The bottom outer bush is adjustable with the non concentric bolt and washer. 21 and 22.

The bush for there is 2, one for each side.

The top link takes no 4 at the inner point and no 5 at the outer.

 

[Samuel c5 Q]

The uj fastens to an input shaft coming from the steering rack.

A torques bolt and nut secures it. I'm not sure if the sliding part of the column is integral or you can use your own and get the uj separate.

 

[John417]

Thanks a lot for taking the time to have a look at it mate really appreciate it , yours look really good compared to the ones on ebay. I looked at this : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-A4-...m=191822941259&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

And then the photo below thats a complete steering column , the fact that the uj is being sold on its own makes me believe that it can be replaced on its own.

BTW do you think the c5 a6 uj is the same as b5 a4 ? Looking at the uj for b5 there's only two of them and they both look rusty so it'd be good to have a wider choice.

 

[Samuel c5 Q]

Don't know what year your tqs is. I picked 99 which has 8D0 419 502 mine has part number 4B0 419 502 A or B. They may be similar and interchangable but they may not be. I've never tried that. You'd only know if someone else has done it or you get your hands on the both parts.

 

[John417]

Mine is 2000 but looking at the pics of both they look slightly different the c5 looks a bit thicker but anyway the car is at a garage now but i wont know nothing till tomorrow , spoke to audi and they dont make the column anymore and it does come as a complete unit its not that expensive on ebay but wonder if it could arrive in time and if it would be actually better then mine and for how long doesnt really make sense why you cant get a new one there should be a way to fix it completely not just put another used one in. Let's see what the garage says tomorrow but im starting to worry if i can get it fixed by sunday which is when i should leave for the trip.

 

[Samuel c5 Q]

Try tps or another Audi dealership and ask them to search the stock inventory of the other dealerships, they may have one on the shelf.

 

[John417]

Tried tps and they say that audi stoped making these in 2016 and looking at other forums it cost $900 for the steering column so i guess ill have to find a good condition used one , still dont get why the uj is being sold on its own on ebay.

 

[John417]

Good news i found a used column in Cardiff so i can pick one up in 10 minutes if ill have to they have two of them and one looks better then the other but the uj is longer on one then the other ? Are they supposed to slide in/out of the column ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-A4-...968775?hash=item3d5bd93d87:g:npYAAOSwGSZana~c


This second one looks to be in a better condition but the uj is too short ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-A4-...040361?hash=item41d2e42169:g:3M0AAOSw1JVZ8-~0

 

[aragorn]

the UJ slides in and out to allow the adjustment of the steering wheel and so it doesnt impale you if you crash.

 

[John417]

Okay so i've got some really surprising news , yesterday the garage called me they didnt find any issue but they wanted me to pay £66 inspection charge so i had a little argument with them that im obviously not going to pay cause there is clearly an issue and they did not find it so they had to look again and what do you know they fault the problem and you know what it is ? A silly coil spring positioned incorrectly ??!! On the passenger side which was clearly sitting lower then the drivers side and which has the camber all wrong so that's the entire problem i mean this is what was driving me crazy all this time but i didnt have it fixed by them cause they wanted £158 i mean its a pretty good garage by what others have said but this is clearly over the top so im going to a friends garage at 3pm to have it fitted correctly but i do have a question , why would it change position i mean if it was fitted this way the whole time i would of had the issues sooner right ?

 

[John417]

I've decided to just replace both front springs but looking online i only see one's for standard suspension and they look longer then the ones i got on now , looking at the zap7 there are like 10 types of them all sorts of 1 paint mark 3 paint marks etc so which one is the one these tqs came from factory ?

 

[Samuel c5 Q]

Standards are sometimes more expensive for a front pair than for a set of four lowering springs from the likes of apex. H and r would be more expensive but good. Tufty bloke uses apex and I would say he doesn't buy rubbish.

 

[S4_dan]

Fit the Eibach springs you have? If you have sports shocks fitted as standard they'll be fine with the Eibachs

 

[John417]

I didnt want to fit them cause the shocks are all messed up one is blue the other is red so i didnt want to ruin the eibach on these shocks i was thinking of getting new shocks but i want decent ones that are meant to be for a sport suspension and for these id have to wait 3-5 days and i need to sort this by sunday. I found a complete strut from a breaker for 40 quid that looks exactly like the original one its red : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-A4-...m=172831900653&_trksid=p2045573.c100507.m3226

But its for a 2.8 V6 pre facelift so i dont know anymore but it looks really similar to the original one and im thinking the 2.8 v6 is heavier at the front so it should have even higher load rating and other then that i cant think of any other difference ? What do you think guys could i fit that one temporarily untill the new shocks arrive?

 

[DieselJake]

If your swapping springs and unsure about the dampers I'd just get a set of half decent dampers to go with them, I have Eibach springs and AP dampers. Don't want to do the job twice.

 

[John417]

The one's i can get in time are for standard chassis atleast thats how they are described i wanted the ones for sport suspension but id have to wait 3-5 days for these i needing to sort it out by sunday. Its really messed up im not sure what the problem is , is it possible to have a shock/spring that is too long and therefore is forced in place ? Or what would be the reason for having to force the strut back in and having to push the hub down a lot to be able to get the bottom part of the shock onto the lower arm i had to unbolt the antiroll bar from the lower arm to be able to push it down enough so that the strut would go sit where it should. The shock is 65cm long from the spring sics to the edge at the bottom i thought yesterday that its too long but my other one is propably the same size i measured it while is installed and i think it is 65cm long aswell but it seems to be that its really forced there a lot is that how its supposed to fit ?

 

[John417]

Also i replaced the upper control arm pinch bolt i bought one from screwfix M10X100 but it went thru the hole really smoothly the old one seems like its more of a tight fit , test drove the car for 2 miles went back and im not sure if it just seems like it but it looks like the upper control arms moved a tiny bit to the top i didnt try to push them lower with a hammer cause im just fed up with the entire suspension and the fact that i cant get hold of any decent shocks i mean Cardiff is a big city and none of the shops have decent shocks most of them dont even have the front springs for a quattro sport model like im seriously fed up with this now.

 

[Samuel c5 Q]

The bottom arm does need forced down. Pry bar with a bit of bouncing on it. It can be awkward. Helps if you can get someone to lean on it while you bring the shock into position and put the bolt into place.

Not too sure what the issue is with the pinch bolt. The old ones do get seized up over time so will be tighter. The thread pitch is important and I'm not sure what it is. An Audi original bolt would have been better. The upper arms need set at an angle whilst being tightened. I'll look later at 9 o'clock and get the values for you. This is just a tinkle break.

 

[S4_dan]

The cause may even be down to the different shocks you have fitted. If one is longer or rated differently, then that could cause the car to handle differently when the weight is transferred over from left to right and front to rear (and vice versa).

For a quick fix I'd go to a scrappy and get two front matching struts and fit them for the time being.

Or fit standard shocks and eiback springs. I had standard shocks on my B6 with eibachs until I could afford some sport shocks. I had a rear spring snap before I built up my suspension stock pile and was reluctant to buy another spring when I had 4 sat in the shed. No issues or. Bottoming out with standard shocks and eibach Pro sport springs.

 

[John417]

Thanks for the input guys , the pinch bolt is fine i thought the arms moved a bit but thats because i put them in a tiny bit deeper so they just returned to their normal position it was propably by like 3mm not even maybe i checked the other side and thats how they should be sitting in there so the bolt is fine. As with the shocks i did want to get used one from a breaker and put that one in instead of the newer one so they both would be used but it was from a 2.8 v6 quattro model so not sure if that would be any use for me , checking the zap7 there are 30 types of shocks but most of them can be used for more engine sizes according to ''buycarpartsonline'' for example a shock with a part number ending with BL shows up as audi a4 b5 1.8-2.8 120-193ps , thats how it shows so i dont know then i thought it was the springs that were mismatched but they both have one green and two pink marks so the springs are propably fine. The newer one is blue meyle , i looked at zap7 aftermarket numbers for like 20 types of shocks that i think could be the ones for this car and only found 2 meyle alternatives so wrotte down the part numbers will go and check if it matches the one thats on now.

With the forcing to fit the shock im 99% certain that there is some issue causing this , every video i looked at how other people did it no one had to use somuch force as me at first i thought its the shock is too long but having checked the other one and knowing their the same size im thinking if there is some issue with the antiroll bar or the lower arm , the drivers side front wheel has negative camber so something must be making the bottom to stick out more then the top im thinking if the lower arm would be positioned higher then it should be that might be the cause of this ? Im not sure cause i dont understand camber that much or what affects it but the fact that the passenger side front wheel has positive camber makes me believe that it is something to do with the antiroll bar or the arms that they are connected to , is that possible ? Also when i was reinstalling the shock i had to twist it and when i did the bottom of the spring moved creating a gap between the end of the coil and the rubber ''wall'' that is supposed to make contact with , am i right thinking this should not happen even when twisting the shock ?

 

[Samuel c5 Q]

Here's info on the upper arm setting.

 

[John417]

Thanks , will check if that's how it is. Im thinking of getting the struts from the breaker that are from 2.8 v6 quattro the part number ends with AH , could i use these or not ? They'd be on the car for two weeks tops but id need it to be safe obviously.

 

[Samuel c5 Q]

I think Aragon knows the most when it comes to shocks and fitment. You could be right about them being too heavy or different damping rating. If it was me I'd go with s4 dan's suggestion and put the springs in with the dampers that are in. If they passed the mot then they are functional dspite being different. If I read the earlier posts correctly.

 

[John417]

I guess ill have to give it a try cause im not gonna buy standard shocks when i want sport ones just cause im in a hurry to fix a problem but i still think that this isnt the issue cause the shock was replaced in december 2014 so since then the shocks were different why would it start acting up nearly 3 years later ? Im still trying to figure it out , i realized today that every garage that checked the car only checked the front axle maybe its not an issue with the wrong even tho the camber is messed up tho so there must be something too. Ill just put the eibachs on and see how it drives if still not solved then i seriously dont know anymore.

 

[Samuel c5 Q]

Have you a report of the camber before 2014? How do know it has gone out of spec recently? It could have been out of spec all along?

 

[John417]

I had 3 alignments done before 2014 and all of them were fine , then in summer 2015 the car was basically sorned till summer 2017 only driven for like 2 months in 2 years and from summer last year i started daily driving it again and thats when i started to feel the car wasnt in such a good shape as it was handling wise so i started replacing some parts then got the wheel alignment done which i had to change track rod ends for i used lemforder got the toe adjusted but the camber isnt adjustable only by moving the subframe or buying adjustable camber arms no one wants to touch the subframe and i wouldnt even trust anyone to get it done properly cause from what i've seen lately these so called mechanics are good for messing things up and thats it but anyway since i found out that the camber is all wrong i was blaming that for the handling problems which is propably one of the problems but today i found out the reason why the car is pulling to the left atleast i think i found out , its finally really warm outside so i was driving with both front windows opened then closed mine and only the passenger side front window was opened and then i noticed a sound which is kinda hard to explain but its like you know when you got squeaky brakes ? Well not exactly that sound but very similar and the faster i was going the faster the sound was and its coming from the front left wheel i tried to brake but not really brake just give the brake pedal a gentle touch and the sound stoped so it reacts to the brakes being applied which lets me believe that its a sticking brake caliper i do have squeaky brakes and that would explain the pulling to the left cause i noticed that it doesnt pull all the time the more i drive it the more it pulls so i guess once the caliper gets used more it starts to stick and im pretty sure it affects the handling too cause i take a right hand turn and the left front wheels is moving slower then the other wheels so that upsets the balance of the car. I ended up canceling the trip untill atleast tuesday , ordered brand new shocks for sport suspension from buycarparts.co.uk thats a great site good prices and really easy to find the correct part the part numbers are there description tells you what suspension they are for paid £280 for bilstein b4 set up so im hoping they'll arrive by tuesday and then ill have the garage put the eibachs on and ill install the set on my own dont wanna pay £70 eachfront and £40 each rear thats £220 labour when i can do it myself even tho it will propably be a nightmare , i'll have the caliper checked but i always thought a sticking caliper makes the wheel hot but the wheel is not any hotter then the other wheels but it all makes sense other then the fact that the wheel is not hot. Will get the camber checked once all installed hopefully that will sort it out cause im seriously tired from this.

 

[John417]

So all 4 shocks /springs are on the car now and i can feel a huge difference the car handles a lot better sticks to the road more but there is still this loose feeling somewhere i dont know where its coming from im 99% sure the brake caliper will need replacing and i blame it for the pulling to the left but there is this strange feeling sometimes i noticed it yesterday already it feels like i turn the steering wheel but the wheels dont really turn could that be the uj down the steering column ? The garage said the play is really minimal and it shouldnt be noticeable but there is clearly a steering fault somewhere cause the suspension is completely fine all arms bushes shocks springs all fine so it must be a steering issue. Also could someone advise whether the car needs an alignment after changing the shocks/springs ?