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Nightmare headgasket

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by StaceyS3, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Have just rebuilt my engine and have now got a large port head but after rebuilding had an oil leak on the head gasket at the cylinder 1 back oil gallery so though maybe might have got a bit of ****e in there so thought id give it another go, although the head had just been skimmed but got dropped in transit so thought id get this checked as a precaution and it had less than half a thou run out on it

    Although the block was still in the car, rather than remove thought the best method was to use a machined bar across the center of the block and run a DTI along it (i know its not ideal but dont fancy stripping everything down just to clock it) the results were very consistant and the max differential i got was 3.5 thou (less than 0.1mm) across the whole block an put it back together and it is leaking in exactly tht same place

    a friend of mine has said to try wellseal on the gasket as i used no sealantl but am not a fan of trying to mask a problem and really didn't think that little amount of run off was that crucial??

    your opinions and views would be much appricaited

    cheers stacey
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2011
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  2. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    MTM K26, Hayward & Scott Custom Downpipe & Decat

    I would be asking for some money back on the DP from Hayward and Scott.. Utter rubbish manufacture.
    Warped v-bands from weld distortion, bolts missing, bolts not done up, wrong materials, warped flanges again from weld distortion, and stainless sheet material "chewed" into forming some attempt at being a gasket (which dont line up properly anyhow)

    Needless to say leaks like a sive

    Not impressed.
    call this a gasket??? stainless sheet material??? wtf
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Blowing like a mofo from external gate to DP flange
    [​IMG]
    Too short anyhows, and its that short cos longer wont go in either due to the poor design

    and of the other 2 fixings for the wg outlet... oh look, no bolt at all!
    [​IMG]

    Motley selection of external gate "so called" gaskets and remaining fixings
    [​IMG]

    Every vband weld is warped and no longer flat, with attempted linishing of the faces to try and remedy this, rendering them both still not flat and now thin.. possibly too thin now baring in mind these things tighten against each other by nature of the chamfer on the back face and its "thickness" !!!!

    turbo to DP bolts undid virtually by finger tight.

    I would personally be demanding "haywood & scott" refund you some ££ as this workmanship is nothing short of appaling.
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  3. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    vbands, warped to ****... genius! ffs

    clue: you should'nt be seeing daylight between them!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    the motley collection of "custom" fab'd downpipe parts.........
    [​IMG]

    Smoke test was laughable.... it was piddling out so much you litterally could not see anything!
    3 bolt external gate leaked the most, no surprise given only one bolt in there tight(ish) one just hanging there undone and one gone awol.. on a flange/gasket which are'nt flat anyhows.. It was doomed from the beginning.

    Vbands next worse smoke leak, and given the gaps, no shocks there either.

    ALL of these leaks being upstream of the lambda, which would'nt know its arse from its elbow afr wise with such gaping leaks ahead of it.

    New Gaskets ordered, real ones!, for Audi UR quattro for this, which should arrive tomorrow.. Then piece the jigsaw back together which is a mission in itself.. Prefitting the external gates outlet to the wg before assembly else you cannot bolt it together at all (hence it being in the state it was no doubt), and convert it to stud fitment from bolt.

    oh joy...
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  4. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Thats pretty appalling.

    What was up with the headgasket?
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  5. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    dunno... I just posted in the 1st thread I could find of staceys.... as its his car MTM K26 which is here for mapping (when this is fixed and mappable!)
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  6. Andy123
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    Andy123 Member

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    Some quality craftsmanship there. If I paid someone to do that I would want my money back. The gaskets are pretty impressive. The welds don't look particularly good either, I'm guessing that's why they appear to have polished the pipes up to mask that.
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  7. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Oh dear oh dear! You cant trust many people with your car nowadays, that is appalling!
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  8. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    exactly..
    welds are pish.... for a company with an "alleged good rep"
    they have'nt welded the flanges whilst clamped to flat surfaces so they have curled up when welds shrunk on cooling. rookie mystake for such a company.. then linished them to try and make them flat.. but this is a fail on 2 counts.. not flat still and now thinner so clamping is even less positive. Useless!

    Polished/ground welds - shiney! must be good eh? Not

    I would be pretty peed off with them if this were my car.. It peeing me off anyhows as this was "just a mapping job" and as usual, it never frigging is...
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  9. Andy123
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    Andy123 Member

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    Yeah I saw the homepage on their website that remarked about their quality being excellent- I wonder what they think bad quality is like. It all seems to point to someone inexperienced having done all of it, not clamping a thin flange when welding, poor welds and the gaskets look like they have been cut by a five year old. Someone surely must have checked it over though. Do the job properly in the first place and save yourself and the person who bought it the headache and time of having to sort it all out. I'm still amazed that people let sh*t like this leave their company only to make them look bad.
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  10. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    So that will now be 2 places that'll be getting a visit from me in the near future for some form of refund and both supposedly with very good reputations, i feel it might get a bit heated lol :box:

    Glad it is now in good hands and with someone that certinally knows what they're doing :superman:

    Cheers for posting up pics etc Bill really can't believe the state of the work that has been done, does make me wonder if i was better off fabricating one myself and spending some money on a tig and lots of stainless (would had have to practice for a bit as been a while since i have used one)
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  11. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Oh and sorry for the mess of a motor Bill with regards to the formentioned shocking downpipe and also the problems with the chip/map really appriciate the work you are doing as well as im sure the car will be a lot happier once you have seen to it:eyebrows:

    Cheers
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  12. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    I know I am slow, and often take on more than I can do in the time, and seem to continually be fixings others work, so I can get on with my work... but I cannot let anything leave here with my name to it, when its anything other than correct. It will only come back and haunt me & damage the reputation I work very hard achieving. It sickens me when guys like Stacy pay good money and get poor workmanship with premium costs. *maybe* they had an inexperienced guy make this, hence the mystakes made..... but they charged a pretty penny for this. Hoping the gaskets arrive promptly this morning and they are the right ones and we can piece this jigsaw back together leak free. fingers crossed. The vbands concern me tho.

    TPS just arrived with the gaskets - sweet!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Let the games begin............... again
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  13. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Good luck Bill, looking forward to the results.
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  14. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    its 90% back together currently... vbands are a dead loss, and one is still weaping on smoke test.. The rest is now sealed properly.
    I think I know what the vibration you mentioned stacey... the DP is touching the steering rack knuckle on the vband they have placed just by it, in another genuis stroke of manufacture.. jeez.. the heatshield is rubbing there from the vband clamp being just there. Thgey could have moved it from here and made life so much easier but no. doh!

    pictures taken along the way when i get a mo to get em off my phone and onto tinterweb.

    not a straight forward job of reassembly.. deffo sequence is imperitive.. wg dismantle in situe, bolt its outlet pipe onto first and drop onto manifold then rebuild wg back up on the manifold.. such is the lack of clearance.

    Not a lot of room between comp housing and prop donut, so if considering a garrett at some point, this comp cover clearance will make/break whats possible (compact cover essential I think, seeing what I have seen thus far)
    regards
    bill
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  15. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much Bill, will certinally be paying them a visit when i get back and will ask them to rectify and recfund some £££

    I mentioned the vibration when i took it back and they assured me that nothing had been rubbing! And after much thinking about when this was occuring did definately seem something to do with the steering due to the nature of it, really should of got it up and had it on jacks and had a look for myself as cant trust anyone these days.....well exept you of coarse lol

    That has put my mind at ease a bit with the cause of the vibration found as was getting paranoid about the rebuild :)

    Just out of curiosity which vee band is still leaking, pre or post lamda?

    Cheers again and sorry about the monstrosity i have left you with :whistle2:
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  16. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Me to mate been long awaited and missed a few good outings but hopefully it'll all be worth it;)
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  17. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for the late reply Aragon & Westy the headgasket still leaked after trying wellseal but is nowhere as bad as when i last checked you couldn't see any leaking whilst idleling but there is definately very clear evidence of it still leaking :crying:

    So i think the plan is, as it is my only car apart from borrowing the other halfs, is to wait till jan/feb as i have got about 6 weeks off of work (although will be resting for the first couple) and will dismantle the engine again to inspect and probably get the block decked and maybe the head skimmed for good measure (as little material removed as possible from both) and go from there

    Besides both surfaces being flat and true and providing theres no crack in the block am fresh out of ideas? :think:
    #17
  18. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    FWIW when i rebuilt my motor, the boy at the machine shop that did the honing suggested i have the block face lightly skimmed as well as the cylinder head, as MLS gaskets are a lot more sensitive to any imperfections/distortion and surface finish than the older composite type.
    #18
  19. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    pre lambda unfortunately... much smaller leak but still a faint leak of smoke from my smoke tester.
    slip joint is now the worst offender for smoke leakage but this is after lambda, and I hope when hot it will seal itself anyhow.. fingers crossed!
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  20. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    And toes lol
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  21. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    My friend did clean the face with some very fine emery cloth and a machined block but have wondered if he got a bit carried away on that rear corner?
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  22. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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  23. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Bloody hell! :lmfao:
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
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  24. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    I knew you said it was leaking like a sieve but didn't quite expect it to be that bad!

    Cheers for the vid Bill
    #24
  25. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    Proper External gate gasket
    [​IMG]

    turbo outlet flange with some silicon "help" to help overcome a slight warp, and new factory real gasket on there.
    [​IMG]

    Prefitted external gate pipe with new gasket and silicon help, with new studs nuts & nordlocks in place - this was the major leak previously.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Full length engaged studs this time!
    [​IMG]

    Comp housing very close to prop
    [​IMG]

    going back together-slowly
    [​IMG]

    Reassembling wg in situ such is the clearance and lack of on this install
    [​IMG]

    This is where the "touching" is going on, steering knuckle to vband clamp (second one)
    [​IMG]
    You can just about see the flattened heatshield on the steering knuckle
    [​IMG]

    Reasembled and allowing silicon sealer to go off before trying it again. vbands are irrecoverable due to their warp and previous linishing making them too thin as well as residual warped
    [​IMG]
    #25
  26. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    It is a tight install and was a complete PITA when i previously worked on it when it was a one piece down pipe can imagine in some aspects it is now easier to work on but also a lot worse with the extra joints to deal with especially when it doesn't fit properly, leak etc etc

    Definately is tighter to the prop than i realised as never could get decent view from having it on jack and stands, but possibly room for a future upgrade if desired? :eyebrows:
    #26
  27. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Get this one finished before you start planning upgrades ;)
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  28. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Was just gauging as have had thoughts but would be a long way to drive to get his opinion at a later date as i have only ever seen a k04 and a k26 in the flesh, so really wouldn't have a clue

    That is if i ever did want to upgrade in the future of coarse :)
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  29. badger5
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    badger5 RIP S3dave Site Sponsor

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    as I said compact garrett comp housing will be req'd me thinks
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  30. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    Jesus that work is bad. H&S used to be good a few years back but looking at those pics i`d rather go to powerflow lol.
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  31. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Just an update as promised to hayward and scott they were very apoligetic and are having the car back to have all the work rectified shortly, they did offer to sort it immediately but i requested to leave it till the 19 of jan as seems like a good time as wont be able to drive for a week or so any how

    Will post the final verdict once i have had it all done :)

    And a big thanks to bill again for the pita of a mapping job that was left with him :whistle2:
    #31
  32. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    That's good news mate. I assume they won't be getting the work experience boy to do the work on it again ;)
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  33. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Bloody hope not ;)

    Best think I should call them to make sure they have ordered in the parts for it as had to wait a week or so last time whilst their supplier for v bands dickked them about

    You still on for tommorrow night? :)
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  34. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    And the supplier of gaskets by the looks of things!

    Yes mate i'm on for tomorrow.

    Are you able to bring that engine support bar along with the AEB head and mani please mate? Oh and the exhaust mani bolts and nord locks :beerchug:
    #34
  35. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah no probs mate will try and remember everything ;)

    What sort of time shall I head over?
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  36. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Oh and tams engine cover ;-)
    #36
  37. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Any time you want. I'll be home by 17:15

    This isn't so important ;)
    #37
  38. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Stacey, here's the graph from your logs we did the other night. Ideally we should have done them in 4th gear 2K revs to redline to get a smooth graph but I didn't think we'd be doing graphs so this is a bit spikey.

    If you get a chance to do some logs with your VCDS measure block 031 in Engine and do a smooth run.

    [​IMG]
    #38
  39. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Cheers mate after speaking to bill I'm going to wind the boost down with unisettings to try and bring egts bit more into check but completely forgot that I had lent my lead to someone....doh

    Will be getting it back in a couple of days so can have a play then ;)
    #39
  40. StaceyS3
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    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    Well have picked the car up today and am happy, no signs of the previous vibration so far and is a lot quieter so pretty sure the blowing is all sorted and they said they pressure tested the joints so all should be good, but only time will tell?

    They also refunded half of the costs that i paid bill to temporarally cure the leaks so all in all good result ;)

    Also heres a bit of car porn

    Track spec 360
    [​IMG]

    800hp supercharged V6 Caterham which they were trying to get noise levels down on as it was very loud and couldn't get on a lot of tracks, would of love to have gone out in this what a beast :faint:
    [​IMG]
    #40

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