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Newbie Buying Advice 210 V 225bhp S3

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by jq_quint, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Hi Forum,

    All being well within the next couple of weeks I will be proud owner of an 8L (pre 2006 right?) S3. I am chopping my a6 2.8 quattro in and wish to re-live my youth a little.

    My dilemma is if I go for an older 210bhp model over the 225bhp model will I regret it? I will be going down the remap route so will both models perform the same once remapped anyway? I've read the 210 model isn't vvt? Is this right, if so I take it, it will never be as quick?

    Apologise if questions are daft.
    If anyone can help I would be grateful, also any other differences between the models would be great (engine/internal & external)..

    Many Thanks
    J.
    #1
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  3. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  4. sean_s3
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    sean_s3 Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    The S3 8L was made between 99 and 03 , the S3 8P came out in 2006.
    I wouldn't worry about the 210 / 225 model difference as the performance is not noticeable. Once remapped they will have similar figures anyway. I'm fairly sure the 210 AMK engine and the 225 BAM engine both have VVT but its there for emissions, not performance. I went for a 51 plate 210 bhp facelift version as the insurance is one group lower than the 225. a pre march 2001 model would also be in the lower tax bracket.

    Hope this helps.
    Sean.
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  5. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    just do yaself a favour and spend that extra couple hundred quid on a facelift - other than that just buy 210 or 25 depending which best one comes along
    #4
  6. Fuzzy felt
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    Fuzzy felt Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
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  7. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Wow thanks for the quick responses guys....All relevant replies great !
    Hey bit concerned about the tax thing now though. I thought pre march 2006 all cars exceeding tax group K fell into K anyway +£30. Is this not correct?

    Are the interiors the same between models?

    J.
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  8. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    a lot of people go on about the tax, personally i think if you are buying an S3 and the tax is the defining decision maker...then you shouldnt be buying an S3 in the first place
    #7
  9. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    nope, facelifts mid 2000 onwards..... will have many many updates, you can get the odd 210bhp facelift as the engine was fazed out to the 225 BAM engine
    #8
  10. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    I do agree, but £200 ish is just a 'nicer' loss than £400 ish+.....
    But I see your point.... (gotta get it past the wife as well though,lol)
    #9
  11. Fuzzy felt
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    Fuzzy felt Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Was just a heads up, it didn't affect my decision to buy an S3, but it might sway others.
    #10
  12. sean_s3
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    sean_s3 Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    #11
  13. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    As discussed a million (and one now) times... cars registered before march 2006 that have a CO2 figure of over 225 will be in band K. Cars registered before March 2001 will be based on engine size as it was in the good old days..

    Only decision to make here based on tax is pre March 2001 or post March 2001... You can get facelift S3's with a 210bhp AMK engine that will stick you in the 'engine size' tax bracket but they are rare.

    Mine is a 210 AMK post March 2001 (51) and there was no difference in performance between this and any of the 225 BAM cars I test drove while buying mine... Price, condition and service history are the main factors here. Don't get hung up on the whole 210 vs 225 thing...

    <tuffty/>
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  14. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Thanks for the link sean. It does only seem 2010-2011 is about £230 ish. If i'm honest I guess its more a depreciation thing..I'd hate to spend X amount now and in 18 months it be worth loads less purely due to our government removing the temp placement of band L cars into band K.

    Can anyone pointme in the right direction for facelift changes? (a link maybe) I'm thinking along the lines of feature changes that may sway my decision making....(I think i'll park the tax issue and just except what ever)..
    #13
  15. sean_s3
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    sean_s3 Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Check this thread, plenty of info on the facelift changes.

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?t=5163

    The most noticeable exterior change is the 1 piece headlight / indicator units on the facelift version. on pre facelift cars they are 2 piece.
    #14
  16. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    thanks for clearing up the performance thing tuffty....On the tax issue though my eye caught the phase on the GOv website "Temporary Placement of Band L cars into Band K", suggesting this will not be forever..?
    #15
  17. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    TBH mate, I think fuel costs will kill values long before car tax does... £1.15 odd a litre and rising for V Power and similar octane fuel is gonna hit the hardest long term.

    Don't get me wrong, the S3 can be an economical little car if you drive it right but depending on your driving style and the type of journeys you do will determine fuel consumption and ultimately total cost of ownership that will make the 'tax issue' seem insignificant by comparison.

    <tuffty/>
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  18. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Hear what you say about the fuel thing, I may as well toe a fuel tanker around at the mo behind my 2.8 a6 Q.
    #17
  19. sean_s3
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    sean_s3 Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Jp_quint , what does the 2.8 A6 average on fuel ?
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  20. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Sean,

    That was a great link, really helpful

    One point I picked up one was improved chassis on facelifted model. Gotta be main reason to go facelift?

    J.
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  21. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Driving (Very) steady in a week returns about 25mpg, going mad every day 20 at best !!!
    #20
  22. sean_s3
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    sean_s3 Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
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  23. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Another great link sean (do you have these as short cuts on your dektop or something? lol).

    Ok decided - "will" go for facelift.

    Are there any major bananaskins on these cars then when I start viewing ?
    #22
  24. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    S3's tend to be so variable sadly... they will either be owed by some muppet that bought it to thrash it and not have to maintain it as its an 'itch' they need to scratch or it coiuld be owned by an enthusiast who gets stuff done even if it looks like it doesn't need doing (like mine)

    All the usual things when looking at cars apply of course... service history, cam belt change in particular and the water pump are classic favourites. If they haven't been done and the mileage is about right then it can be used to bargain with.

    Ideally you want VAGCOM (or someone with VAGCOM with you) to check fault codes that maybe lingering. Fualts can be triggered and the owner can be blissfully unaware that they are there...

    Other than that its vacuum and boost pipes that create probs..

    <tuffty/>
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  25. sean_s3
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    sean_s3 Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Ive only had mine 6 month so all the research i did is still pretty fresh.

    The usual stuff. Good service history, cam belt and water pump change at some point depending on mileage. The most common exterior fault is corrosion on the roof rails / roof so give that area a good inspection. Try and view as many as you can if possible..
    #24
  26. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Thanks Tuffty,
    What are the cam belt periods? Are these engines ok post 100K assuming FSH?
    Will get VAGCOM, will the typical 'cheap' ebay version be ok?
    J.
    #25
  27. sean_s3
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    sean_s3 Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    For the cam belt i would say every 50,000 miles or 5 year depending which one comes first. If you find a car that hasn't had the change then offer a price around this as its not a cheap job. Past 100 k is fine if its been serviced regular like you say. There is plenty of people on here with remapped cars going well over 100 k.

    E bay vagcom's are very limited so if possible take a mechanic friend who can help out in that area.
    #26
  28. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    every 50K, wow is that all? ok will take this into consideration. What sost of cost is belt change, so i can use a bargaining tool?
    p.s wasn't suggesting to take vagcom along, afterall there is no way I would allow anyone plug anything into a car i was selling ! I just meant for routine maintenance checks..
    #27
  29. sean_s3
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    sean_s3 Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Some people may change it earlier or later , mine was done at 45,000 by the original owner. Most used S3's should have had it done by now to be honest.

    For the cam belt / water pump i think its in the region of £400. Use a decent Audi / VW independent garage as Audi would probably double that price !!

    An Ebay vagcom will only let you check a few things such as engine codes and some measuring blocks , but i dont think it lets you clear any faults codes found.
    #28
  30. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    ok sean thanks for the advice.
    I will keep you posted when I get myself sorted with one.
    (still gotta decide on colour now, ummmm)
    #29
  31. emery1990
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    emery1990 Active Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    easy. black
    #30
  32. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    I'm not really a black car man...
    fav's at the mo are grey or silver and am even tempted with the solid red or light blue shades...
    #31
  33. emery1990
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    emery1990 Active Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    fair enough, what about noggi blue, i prefer that too black, some of the s3's in red look a bit too orangy.
    #32
  34. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    I think the light blue might be the noggie blue your referring to? Its none metallic isn't it? similar to the renault clio 182 blue?
    #33
  35. emery1990
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    emery1990 Active Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Yes its solid, very nice looking car, i think its the best colour for chrome wing mirrors too.
    #34
  36. emery1990
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    emery1990 Active Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    #35
  37. jq_quint
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    jq_quint Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Think I agree, the noggy blue is very smart, still like the red also.
    #36
  38. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    On the subject of cambelts... Someone I know who has a 2001 AMK S3 like mine, takes it to a well know dealer and asks if he should have the cambelt done... they told him no, not until 100k... his car has 97k on the clock and last week the cambelt snapped and has landed him with a bill for fixing it of nearly £2500...

    Not worth messing with IMHO... 60k miles tops and get it changed... mine wasn't done when I got mine with 82k on it... did it shortly afterwards as just couldn't take the risk...

    Anything you look at with 50k plus on it, make sure it has the cambelt done... if not, factor it into the price you pay...

    simples...

    <tuffty/>
    #37
  39. alijames
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    alijames Active Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    I agree with Tufty. The two items you must not scrimp on or delay are oil changes & cam belt.

    Every 50-60k or 5 years which ever is sooner for cam belt, pulleys and waterpump and you should not go wrong.

    Cheers,


    Cheers,
    #38
  40. sportquattro
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    sportquattro Active Member

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    if you take it to Audi its £320 fixed price, and make sure you get the waterpump and thermostat changed at the same time as the cambelt.

    Nige
    #39
  41. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 1, 2009]
    £320 !! my normal service was £400 so cannot see Audi doing a service for that but if you have then fairplay,I guess nobody is going to mention metal impellers
    #40

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