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New timing belt kits

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by mattyb6, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. mattyb6
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    mattyb6 Active Member

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    I'm due for a new timing belt, and just wondering should I go to audi directly for it or just go somewhere like euro car parts or a local motor factors.

    its a 1.9tdi awx 5speed fwd

    it will be getting new thermostat, water pump and temp sender at the same time too
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  2. Paul @ Unit
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    Paul @ Unit Active Member

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    i do my own stuff but phones audi as was curious' for a 3.0v6 full kit. water pump. tensioners. rollers. belt bolts you get the idea they wanted £700 nearly fell through the roof
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  3. SL11CKK
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    SL11CKK Active Member

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    I got my kit along with the waterpump and all aux belts from dealers. Just 1 thing I thought not to mess around with.
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  4. Audi Doodah
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    Audi Doodah Active Member

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    Just fitted a Contitech timing belt kit and SKE water pump from ECP. Used the 25% off offer and if the current one doesn't cover your parts, use lastchance25. 200 miles so far and all good so time will tell. The Audi stamped belt I removed was manufactured by Dayco if you're interested.

    Got a cts and stat from GSF last year for approx £30 and been fine ever since. Worth checking the movement on the stat in a pan of just below boiling water (87 degrees C is what the should open at) before fitting just to make sure you haven't got a duffer.
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  5. mattyb6
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    mattyb6 Active Member

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    Cheers Paul that's what I don't want to hear from audi haha.
    i was on ECP earlier and I was thinking about getting the premium timing belt kit from them with the OEM water pump.
    Audi doodah - I'm going to use genuine sender and stat as I've heard mixed reviews on cheaper ones.

    The kit a seen was £180 I think so thought that would be a good choice.

    SL11 yeah I don't want to do uber cheap as its something you don't chance.
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  6. A3_130
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    A3_130 Member

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    Car Parts for Less can be even cheaper than Europarts and they do Contitech timing belt kits (mine was about £80 for my 8l A3 TDI) then I'm going for a genuine Audi water pump (£40 ish) as don't want to risk using other pumps having had a pump go on another car a few years back.
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  7. stu_m
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    stu_m Active Member

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    I got all mine from eurocarpart apart from the stat I got a genuine one

    Done 15k so far with no bother
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  8. mattyb6
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    mattyb6 Active Member

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    I think il go for genuine pump, stat + sender. Then il pop over to the local motor factors to see what they can offer.
    all in all its going to be about £200 for parts I can imagine

    plus £80-100 labour
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  9. Audi Doodah
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    Audi Doodah Active Member

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    Will you be using a VAG specialist to fit your tming belt?
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  10. mattyb6
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    mattyb6 Active Member

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    No, my family has a garage local.
    they been in the trade for 30+ years.
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  11. Audi Doodah
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    Audi Doodah Active Member

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    Then hopefully they have the correct locking tools, etc. A poster on another forum recently complained of sluggish performance and reduced mpg. Turned out his timing belt was changed using the old school method of using tippex marks. Even when locking correctly it still needs checking with VCDS to ensure bang on 0. Just done mine and when I fired it up for the first time the engine noise was different and a check of Synchro Angle in Engine Measuring Blocks showed -2.6. A VERY SMALL tweak of the camshaft sprocket got it bang on 0.
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  12. Paul @ Unit
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    Paul @ Unit Active Member

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    didnt use locking tools myself on my v6. 4X 18mm sockets and power bars to line the cams up
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  13. mattyb6
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    mattyb6 Active Member

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    Ah I thought the old school method would be fine if you did properly. Like Paul said his was fine though I don't have a 3.0 mine a pd130.

    how much you do ya reckon a full timing belt job is from a bag specialist?
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  14. Paul @ Unit
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    Paul @ Unit Active Member

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    Just make sure you mark the pulleys before removing the belt or you will have to the time from scratch following auto data instruction
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  15. stu_m
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    stu_m Active Member

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    lock it up properly dont use the tipex method your old belt will have stretched and your timing will be out when you tension it up trust me listen to Audi Doodah he is spot on with what he is saying

    when you fit the new belt you have to undo the cam shaft sprocket nuts tension it up then tighten it if you dont undo these then the cam will move upon tensioning it and the timing will be out

    the locking tools are really cheap I paid £13 posted off ebay for mine just buy the tools buy manual and follow it its really simple if done as the manual says
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  16. mattyb6
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    mattyb6 Active Member

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    Ah well if the tools are only that cheap il get them
    ive got a Haynes manual aswell so if I follow that should I be fine?
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  17. Audi Doodah
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    Audi Doodah Active Member

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    #17
    Smillie13 and stu_m like this.
  18. stu_m
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    stu_m Active Member

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    put it this way I did mine following the manual and it was really simple the hardest part was taking the front end off!!!

    timing tools here SALE!! VAG VW AUDI 1.2 & 1.4 & 1.9 BELT ENGINE TIMING TOOL T10050 T10008 T20102 | eBay
    depending on what type of belt tensioner you have you may not use all the tools make sure you check the tensioner type before you buy your kit you can do this by removing the top cam belt cover and shine a torch down the left side as your facing the car (drivers side) there is two types hydraulic and manual look in your manual and you should see the difference
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  19. stu_m
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    stu_m Active Member

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    I watched that before I did mine and it does help a lot and thats the same make of belt I got from euro car parts
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  20. mattyb6
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    mattyb6 Active Member

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    I'm just having a quick look through Haynes now. Il look for the tensioner tomorrow.

    my engine code is Awx if that helps
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  21. mattyb6
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    mattyb6 Active Member

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    Just watched that video, got a lot better understanding now. Il buy them tools and parts this week.
    oem pump, stat and temp sender,
    what brand timing kit do you recommend ?
    contitech or skf?
    #21
  22. Audi Doodah
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    Audi Doodah Active Member

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    My theory was conti make good tyres so their belts should be good too :shrug:
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  23. stu_m
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    stu_m Active Member

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    if I'm not mistaken contitech is who make them for audi

    either will do fine they are both quality
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  24. Audi Doodah
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    Audi Doodah Active Member

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    The Audi stamped belt I took of was Dayco
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  25. Audi Doodah
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    Audi Doodah Active Member

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    Now I'm repeating myself...see above :keule:
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  26. mattyb6
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    mattyb6 Active Member

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    Well I think I've made my mind up plus others have recommended them.

    Is there anything else I should know?
    such as any other parts I'm missing, tips hints etc.
    #26
  27. mattyb6
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    mattyb6 Active Member

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  28. Audi Doodah
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    Audi Doodah Active Member

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    Watch your feet when you take the water pump out and don't put the covers, aux pulley and belt back on until the timing has been checked!
    #28
  29. stu_m
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    stu_m Active Member

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    god knows then!!

    as for tips as already said watch your feet! they may get wet!

    when I did mine I pulled all the front end out the way and laid the aircon rad down on the floor do not disconnect it! it made it easier to work on with it all out the way

    the water pump will be a tight fit it can take some pulling to get off
    #29
  30. Audi Doodah
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    Audi Doodah Active Member

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    I put the front in the "lock carrier service position" using a couple of 150mm M8 coach bolts I got from wilkinsons. Uncliping the bonnet release cable, disconnecting intake pipe at turbo and intercooler, top and bottom radiator hoses and headlights gave plenty of room to work.

    As for time...depends if it all goes well!

    Remove bumper - a bolt above each fog light and 3 lock nuts behind each wheel arch
    Lock carrier service position - as above, 2 torx next to each headlight then 3 torx bolts on each bumper mount (use some anti-seize on these first as I had a problem one)
    Remove aux belt
    Remove aux pulley - hex bolts
    Remove covers
    ROTATE AT CRANKSHAFT CLOCKWISE ONLY (as you face it) - LOCK USING TOOLS AT TDC!!!
    Remove belt then water pump - give the engine block a flush at this point (seeing as though you now have wet feet!)
    Fit new pump
    Fit new belt as per manual/guides
    Run engine and check Synchro Angle in VCDS - 0 = :thumbsup: if not only make VERY SMALL adjustments of the cam sprocket while locked at TDC to get it in
    Refitting is reverse of removal!

    Have I missed anything, Stu?
    #30
  31. stu_m
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    stu_m Active Member

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    looks pretty much spot on to me that

    just remember once its all tensioned up to rotate it a couple of times then lock it back up with the tools to check nothing has moved

    when I did mine it was a bugger to lock it up as the timing was out a little due to belt stretch
    #31
  32. mattyb6
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    mattyb6 Active Member

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    Anymore info and this should be sticky ha
    i may even write a guide once I do it.

    i seen the service position with the front end but I have big hands and the bumper is going in for paint along with wings so il just remove the lot so quickness and overall access
    #32
  33. Paul @ Unit
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    Paul @ Unit Active Member

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    How thick am I' just realised its your thread Matty, haha how you doing
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  34. Audi Doodah
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    Audi Doodah Active Member

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    In that case just undo the air con condenser from the radiator and lie it on the floor, like Stu says. Had my front wings off too. Quite straight forward, just a bit tricky getting the sill end plate trim out of the way.
    #34
  35. pj123
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    pj123 Member

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    I'm struggling to understand the bit about undoing the cam shaft. Agreed if the timing is out you will need to undo the camshaft pulley bolts and adjust, but is it acceptable to fit the new belt and tension the belt first to see if the timing is out? i.e. it could be fine if belt is not too old and has not stretched? My timing is spot on right now and a really good mpg so i dont want to adjust if i dont have too.

    If you put it all back together, run the engine and find the synchro angle does not equal zero, do you need to strip down and lock the crankshaft before adjusting the camshaft?
    #35
  36. Audi Doodah
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    Audi Doodah Active Member

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    I think he point stu was trying to make was tensioning a new belt without using the locking tools would move the cam shaft. Ideally, when fitting the new belt it should be first tensioned with the cam sprocket adjustment bolts reset to the left side of the adjustment holes (ie rotate cam sprocket clockwise). That way, you have the ability to correct the timing as the belt stretches over time. The tolerances are so small on the timing adjustment that it would be virtually impossible to fit a new belt and expect to have the exact same synchro angle. Also, you'll struggle to get the old belt off without loosening the cam sprocket adjustment bolts, even with the tensioner released.

    And, yes, crank and cam should always be locked when making adjustments.
    #36
  37. pj123
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    pj123 Member

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    Thanks for the reply. I was definitely planning to use the locking tools. So do you put everything on the engine back together, run the engine then check synchro angle in VCDS before refitting bumper and strip it all back down again if the synchro angle needs changing? This article suggests it can be adjusted without locking gear How to adjust rough idle and camshaft timing on VW and Audi TDI pumpe duse engine

    If the timing was setup correctly when the belt was last changed 50k ago and it is still spot on now then i really dont see how belt wear or changing to another belt is going to put the timing out but i guess as you say it is small tolerances.

    Appreciate your help. I've only changed the belt on my old S3 and always a little cautious with jobs like this.
    #37
  38. Audi Doodah
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    Audi Doodah Active Member

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    Fit belt, run engine and check and adjust timing if necessary. Once it's all good, then refit the cover, aux belt, return lock carrier an fit bumper
    #38
  39. Paul @ Unit
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    Paul @ Unit Active Member

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  40. Audi Doodah
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    Audi Doodah Active Member

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    The job of the tensioner is to take up slack as the belt stretches thus keeping the timing accurate. You be replacing the tensioner (with an fresh spring) and setting it, as per the instructions. You'd then be fitting a new belt which will be tighter than the one removed. To magically have it all set exactly as the previous tensioner and belt is just not possible. As long as you use the locking tools and follow the guides, you will not break your engine but I guarantee you will have to run VCDS to fine tune the synchro angle. I appreciate the guide you linked shows a way of timing when it's all back together but why not time it properly at the time of dong the job as it's all accessible!?
    #40

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