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New TDI 170 Owner - is it PD or CR?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by PJLarge, Sep 27, 2006.

  1. PJLarge
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    PJLarge Member

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    Hi Folks, I've just yesterday picked up a new Dolphin Grey A3 TDI 170 S-Line with the S-Tronic box, I'm just going through the tedium that is running in...

    Does anyone know definitavely if the engine in the 170 is a PD or a Common Rail unit? I see a lot of conflicting information about what it is, although the Audi site says it's a CR. Not that it really matters too much, I'm just the curious type!

    Phil.
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  2. mfspen
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    mfspen Member

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    As you say, the Audi site says that it is common rail, so I doubt that they would have got it wrong (or would they ?)

    However, it does conflict with all the press reports from late last year, which said that the CR engines wouldn't appear until 2007. The 170 engine has also been referred to as PPD (piezo pump duse), which has the piezo injectors of a CR engine, but the mechanical (camshaft) pumps of the PD.

    Confusing !

    Does it seem smoother than the old engine ?
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  3. PJLarge
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    PJLarge Member

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    It's a lot smoother than the 1.9 TDI 130 and very much quieter. In fact, at 70 mph you can't hear the engine at all. I can't really comment on high RPM yet, as it's only done 100 miles. I test drove the 140 which I believe is definately a PD and it was slightly noisier, that had done a few more miles so again it's hard to compare.

    The car definately has the Diesel Particle Filter though and the silver exhaust trims. From everything I've read from Audi, it's a CR although the manual doesn't say anything except for the fact that it uses different longlife oil - 507.00 instead of 504.00. I'm wondering if it's because of the DPF that it needs different oil, or the fact that the injection system is different. Anyway, that didn't stop the garage giving me a litre of 504.00 (which I need to get them to swap) - there are warnings about using 504.00 in the 170 engine.

    Phil.
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  4. The Slug
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    The Slug Active Member

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    507 oil can be used in pd130's too, just better grade oil
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  5. jasonmymail
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    jasonmymail Member

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    Also collected my 170 Diesel yesterday - YAY!

    I really don't know whether it's CR or PD. Don't have much experience with diesels but 170 is VERY quiet at speed - only really the tyre noise which is a bit more noticable than I was expecting. My previous car was a Golf V5 which had a really smooth engine so I'm pretty impressed with the 170 TDi.

    Still finding the diesel a bit noisy around town - well not noisy, more rumbly/growly... but loving that yesterday I drove 110 miles on 1/4 tank and that was giving it some wellie :)

    Overall pretty pleased, it's quick in 6th at 50..80..100MPH but still getting used to the turbo lag lower down the speed range.
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  6. mfspen
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    mfspen Member

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    Yes, my old Sportback produced a lot of road roar, but it turned out to be the Dunlop tyres. The Continentals on my current car are much much quieter.
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  7. PJLarge
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    PJLarge Member

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    Mr 3dr has a lot of road noise too. I went for the 20 spoke alloys but can't remember what tyres are on them.
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  8. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    I am test driving a new 170 on Saturday morning. I have Dunlops on my current 140 but it's an SE so has 205/55 x 16 tyres. To me they do seem reasonably quiet.

    A new bypass has just opened near where I live and it joins straignt on to an existing dual-carriageway. When I drive along the existing (older) section you can hear some tyre noise but as soon as I cross on to the new section everything goes very quiet. Obviously a much better and quieter surface on the new section. I will have to make a point of driving the 170 along this particular road and see the difference. I will try and remember to see what tyres are fitted.
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  9. Phil's Barber
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    Phil's Barber Top Gear

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    h5djr, I would be interested to hear what you find on Saturday with regards to how the 170 compares to the 140 performance and refinement wise.
    I am about to order an A4 170 sline and have concerns over it's refinement.
    If anyone has driven a *** 320d and can let me know how they compare that would be great too.

    I tried asking in the A4 forum, but it's like a morgue in there!!!
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  10. PJLarge
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    PJLarge Member

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    Just popped out to have a look at mine, it's running Continental 225/40/18's. There is a reasonable amount of road noise, but it's silent compared to the Elise I've just sold :music:
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  11. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    snap - i'm test driving a 170 TDI saturday afternoon! should definately be interesting. I test drove a 2.0 TFSI DSG the other day and although it sounded nice it didnt really set my heart racing, expected it to blow my pants off and make my 140 TDI feel slow afterwards but it didn't - got straight back in my car and it felt much more eager - guess its all that torque making it feel faster than it actually is. Think i'm gonna have to accept ive been bitten by the diesel bug!! So heres hoping the 170 is a sparkler!!!!
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  12. PJLarge
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    PJLarge Member

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    It is, but I hope the car you drive has done a few miles. Mine's getting better with every journey and it feels like it's slowly coming to life. It will easily break traction in 2nd and 3rd if you provoke it.

    MPG doesn't seem great at the moment, but I'm sure that will stabilise as well. Average this morning was 42, the DIS2 says total average is 38.9, but that's just over the initial 200 odd miles.

    Phil.
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  13. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    I'd be interested in real-life fuel figures for the 170bhp.
    My 140bhp 2.0tdi is 20% worse than my 130bhp 1.9tdi,so if the 170bhp is proportionally worse again then you must be looking at petrol territory.
    I like diesels well enough,but not if they are just as gutsy as a petrol.
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  14. ren
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    ren Member

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    hi

    i've been doing old fashioned calcs at the filling station with my 170 ... i never really trust things like trip computers to give anything other than optimistic readings... and the average mpg i'm getting over the couple of thousand miles i've done is: 45.3. motorway runs at sensible speeds return between 51 and 52 - again calculated manually. i can get far lower figures if i go quickly or get stuck in a traffic jam... but overall i'm really pleased i'm getting these figures out of a pokey little number which can't have even vaguely loosened up properly yet.

    oh - incidently i've found the DIS figures ar not far out at all.
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  15. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    Motorway driving always flatters diesel fuel figures.
    It's the 'far less' figures I'm interested in,as almost all my mileage is short journey/twisty roads.
    I hardly ever get the chance to cruise.
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  16. jasonmymail
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    jasonmymail Member

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    I had a 320d on holiday for a couple of weeks a couple of years ago. Good engine, pretty refined as I remember but acceleration wise no where near that of the A3 170, in fact the 320d a bit slow, well not slow but no real urgency. I reckon the 170 is as quiet as the BMW at speed.
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  17. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    The 3 series is not the A3's natural competitor.
    The 1 series is.
    The 3 series natural competitor is the A4.

    I haven't driven a 1 series with the 163bhp diesel,but I bet it would feel just as lively as a 170bhp A3.
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  18. Phil's Barber
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    Phil's Barber Top Gear

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    Thanks Jason,
    Reading as much as I can about the new 170 engine and it sounds like it's quick but maybe not as refined as the BMW. Geting rid of mine and have decided on the Audi route now. The BMW is a great car but the image stinks (too flash, gobshite), where as the Audis look great and have a fairly nuetral image.
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  19. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    I now think anyone that chooses an A3/A4 over a 3 series is off their head.

    I've owned an A4 and A3,and have driven the new A4 on several occasions too.
    After reading umpteen reports that said the 3 series is way ahead of the compeition (Audi/Saab/Alfa/Volvo etc.),I decided to go drive one last week (along with a Civic 2.2ctdi and an Alfa 159,as I was on holiday and had time to).

    The press ARE right.
    The new 3 series IS light years ahead of the A3 and A4.

    I ignored the 3 series when I renewed my car because of the same petty "image" problems mentioned in this thread,but I now know I was wrong to.

    If you're going to let image mean you drive an inferior motor,then you're just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    If I stay in the company car scheme,I'm going to try my damndest to get an Alpina D3 (sporty version of the 320D).

    If it's even better than the 320D sport I drove,it must a helluva machine.
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  20. mfspen
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    mfspen Member

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    One of my colleagues has a 320d, and the engine is indeed very smooth and refined. Almost up to Honda diesel standard for refinement.

    Seemed to have good acceleration - slightly better than my old Sportback 2.0TDi 140, I would say, though not by much. Nowhere near as quick as my 2.0T however.

    What lets it down (ignoring image issues), is the build quality, which whilst good, is simply not in the same league as my Audi, particularly the interior.
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  21. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    Bowfer, which ever car you decide on next time, make sure you don't do the same as you did with your Sportback. Make sure you test drive the exact model BEFORE you order one. At least that way you will know what is does BEFORE you make your decision. That way you may even like it.
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  22. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    My problem when I tried a BMW Series 1 was not so much the car as the salesman. Whilst I did not like the BM as much as my A3 the salesman was, in my opinion, very rude. My wife came with me for the test drive and whilst we were looking at the car afterwards, she asked a couple of perfectly normal questions and he replied looking at me and ignoring her completely as if women did not count where cars are concerned.
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  23. ren
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    ren Member

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    i agree with the interior build quality comment, mfapsen. i apporached buying a new car with a completely open mind. it's something i want to keep until it falls apart so current fashion/image couldn't be an issue. there are other factors to consider apart from the engine block. the car needs to be considered as a whole. i'm not a rear-wheel drive person and i only wanted 3 doors so the 4 door 1 series was out. i didn't find the 120d any more refined or quicker than my 170. infact, i found the dsg 'box more 'grown-up'. what killed the beemer option for me though was the emissions. the particualte filter on the 170 makes is a far cleaner car and means you pay less for road tax. on the whole, i concluded the 170 was more future-proof. horses for courses ...
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  24. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    What's the Co2 rating for the 170 ?
    The BMW 320D has a lower rating,I'm sure,than the 140 Audi.
    It's certainly not higher as I remember doing the calculations for a BMW D3 last week,and that has a 200bhp engine.
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  25. jasonmymail
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    jasonmymail Member

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    I owned a 3 series coupe (petrol), was a terrific drivers car and a great engine but also found it too flashy and didn't like the interior much so went back to a golf. In my mind an Audi is just the classiest interior to be in and the exterior understated but with great presence (I work in design btw and it's the designer's choice motor).

    I didn't consider either 1 or 3 series BMW - just hate the styling and don't like the interior, although you can't ignore the great reviews - for me I have to buy a car because it feels good and suits my personality - BMW just isn't me and you know you can uhhhmm and aaahhh about all the stats and the reviews but you have to use your heart as well as your head.

    V happy with my Audi :)
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  26. ren
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    ren Member

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    off the top of my head:

    170: 156 (which takes it just into a higher bracket as the cut-off is 153) (for the auto/dsg)

    120d: 173 (again, for the auto)

    on paper, the 170 is quicker 0-62 and has a slightly higher top-end. not that either of these two factors was a deciding one for me.
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  27. ren
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    ren Member

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    it IS the designer's choice isn't it?! now i clearly understand why we both went for black headlining!!

    even the woman who is responsible for aston interiors admits the best interiors are made by audi.

    i lump apple and audi in the same clean, understated design group. i have ipod in my car glovebox so i've married them nicely! i admit i'm swung by design and sometimes go for form over function. with my audi i think i've found a very good balance between the 2.
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  28. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    The 140 has a c02 of 150 in manual and 157 in DSG form.

    The BMW site does not give co2 ratings but the 320d is in the 20% tax bracket so I assume that means its between 160-165.
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  29. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    Strange,as the Alpina D3 (200bhp) has a CO2 rating of 156.
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  30. ren
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    ren Member

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    i think there are large discrepancies between auto and manual. the 120d manual comes in at 152 i think which would be great as i think you'd only be paying £110/year for tax - well, less than the £135 my 170 costs.
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  31. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    Yes it does.
    Click on the model and click on technical info.
    The BMW 320D M-sport (which I drove) has a CO2 rating of 153.

    Under the old regime,it would have been 17% (because of the 3% 'discount' for diesels)

    Now that the government have ditched that...ho hum...it's 20%.
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  32. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    ren and Jason. I too trained and worked as an Architectural Technician for many years and again I enjoy good design. I think the same as you that the interior of the Audi is far better than the BMW or any other car for that matter and after all that's where you spend most of your time when your driving. The exterior is also nicely understated but again, in my opinion good design. The interior and the way all the 'things' inside just work and fit together so well are what first sold me on Audi some 20 years ago and I still think the same today.

    I suppose it boils down in the end to what you want from a car. Each person has different views but Audis general design is what appeals to me.
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  33. ren
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    ren Member

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    not to forget amongst all of this co2 banter: for diesels, a very important (environmental) factor is the soot a diesel engine kicks out. the DPF on the 170 removes almost all the diesel particles using a really clever box full of precious metals and other good stuff. that's why we're allowed straight-out exhausts. does bmw do something similar?
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  34. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    Personally, even a £25 saving for the three years I normally a car, would not influence my choice car one liitle bit. When you are paying in the region of £20-25k for a car £75 is just peanuts. Even, if like me, when it's my own money and the cost to change is going to be in the region of 10k, the difference in the cost of three years road tax is totally irrelevant.
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  35. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    I cannot undertand how anyone interested in design could be a fan of Audi,to be honest.
    They have about as much design flair as a council high-rise,or a cardigan.
    If design is your bag,then surely you should be drooling over the likes of the Alfa 159,which is stunning inside and out ?
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  36. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    DPFs are a very big thing in Germany at the moment and I think their car tax system promotes the use of DPFs so I assume all manufactures will fit them soon if they don't already. I don't know but BMW and Mercedes may aready fit them to their models sold in Germany but not yet in the UK.

    This is the reason the 170 diesel was introduced into the Geramn market ahead of other markets.
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  37. ren
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    ren Member

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    fair point. £25 a year is neither here nor there. i'd pay a lot more than that if it meant i'd produce less nasty stuff. in a way i did by going for the 170 with the DPF. environmantal impact was one of my driving forces when looking for a new car.

    having said that, you can't put biodiesel in a 170 because of the DPF whereas a lot of 140s in germany are run on biodiesel i hear.
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  38. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    You're obviously not a fan of design as you put it. Most people are not and do not understand what good design is all about.

    Personally I do not like the external appearance on the Alfa 159. I know some people do but it does nothing for me at all.

    Most of the guys who I used to work with in Architecture do favour and drive an Audi.

    But as I said early, each to his own when it comes to design.
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  39. ren
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    ren Member

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    i looked at the alfa gt. i think it's a nice looking car. but the interior is in a completely lower league. the touchy-feely experience is awful. stuff doesn't integrate as well or fit together all that neatly. and i think the person who invented silver plastic should be shot.

    my friend did get a black gt and when you do a next-to-each-other comparison one thing becomes really clear: one is italian and the other is northern european. i'm a little teutonically obsessed. in an ideal world, i'd take my audi and go and live in copenhagen in a house full of bosch appliances.
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  40. h5djr
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    h5djr Active Member

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    It's a bit like a comparrison between say a Ferrari and a Porsche. The Ferrari is very Italian and in my view flash, whereas the Porsche is just good understated design than works so well.

    ren - let me know when you move to Copenhagen, as I would love to come and visit ! I too am a fan of German and Northern European design. Hence my holidays are always to Germany, Austria or Switzerland.
    #40

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