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New SPECS sites (Notts)

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by amoffat, Jul 24, 2003.

  1. amoffat
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    amoffat Member

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    Iam really getting fed up:rolleyes: , in fact I am livid/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

    Notts CC have seen it in their pathetically stupid wisdom to further place more (lots) of new SPECS sites accross the county. This time they are not targetting residential 30/40 mph zones, but *safe* 60 mph A roads, primarily the A45 and A52.

    Unless you know the area you will not be familiar with the site locations, but believe me, they are shocking and some are pure revenue generators and can be seen as nothing else. The Saxondale roundabout where the A52 and A46 meet at Bingham, exit onto A52 towards Grantham.... the road is wide enough to fit 4 cars sidebyside and it is an uphill with good vis for about 1.5 miles. This provides an excellent overtaking opportunity to get past HGV's and the like when they are struggling uphill.

    The first SPECS camera's are just going up at the start of the straight and this will make overtaking virtually impossible and extremely dangerous as the overtaking vehicle will have to limit their speed to 60mph:yikes: It has been proposed that some of these SPECs sites will have upto 3-6 miles between cameras to stop braking before cameras and acclerating after. It will also maintain a constant speed.... yeah, f**king 40mph behind a slow truck for 6 miles/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif . I know the A52 very well, especially this stretch, as I live in Bingham, and in the 2 years I have lived here, there has never been a single accident on that stretch:rolleyes:

    The A46 bewteen Leicester and Newark will also see 6 new SPECs sites similar to the above. This road is very slow when you get stuck behind an HGV but is safe in many areas to overtake. That safety has now been removed:angry: . The total cost for these SPECs sites will be £1m+. Its a f***ing joke:banghead: Why oh why will the they not realise that education and safer junctions and roads are answer to the problem. A dual carriageway has been discussed for years and is the answer! The only reason for accidents on the A46 is a) very bad junctions combined with a busy road and b) frustration from drivers stuck at 35-40 mph trying to overtake.

    I know this post echo's previous moaning posts, but I am thoroughly pissed off with it all now, and I hope that the public does not stand for this.

    Now whats the website for MAD (motorists against detection)....
    #1
  2. audi_girl
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    audi_girl Active Member

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    Typical - all these are is revenue generation. I agree with camera's in accident spots etc., but not like this!
    #2
  3. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    Its a faqct that roughly 7% of accidents are a direct cause of speeding... therefore why the **** do they feel hte need to spend millions of £££ on f'ing speed cameras, especially where theya re not needed!!! Fair enough, i agree witht the ones where there are lots of accidents and in residential areas ,.etc, but on open roads, there is just no need! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fuck_you.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fuck_you.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fuck_you.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fuck_you.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fuck_you.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fuck_you.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fuck_you.gif To the government!!
    #3
  4. Gambba
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    Gambba Active Member

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    Well that's severely F'd up the A52, bugger, as you say you get stuck behind an HGV and that is...I mean was the perfect place to take them

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif

    It seems they are getting as ridiculous as the Dutch now, you get a fine for doing 3 or 4 Km/h over the limit (yes that's like 2 mph)!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif

    The whole worlds gone bloody mad I tell ya!
    #4
  5. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    We need more track days /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    #5
  6. nicks3
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    nicks3 Member

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    Mofs3, I live near Southwell and know exactly what you mean, that is f'in stupid. I tell you, soon we might as well all buy smart cars (I quite like them!) and set cruise to 40mph. The A52 to Grantham and the A46 to leicester will be MUCH more dangeroous with specs cameras with 3 to 6 miles between them - we'll all be concentrating so hard on our speed we won't be looking at the road!
    #6
  7. jpringle819
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    jpringle819 New Member

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    While we are on the subject of Nottingham council wasting money who was asked if we wanted a tram system and 24 hour bus lanes. What about all the areas where they seem to be replacing the curb stones whats that all about.

    James
    #7
  8. amoffat
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    amoffat Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    we'll all be concentrating so hard on our speed we won't be looking at the road!


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Damn right. I am getting sick and tired of this stoopid country and its ridiculous transport policy that is a f****g farce.

    The problem is that everyone will just accept that the cameras are they to *save* lives, all the people on councils are old tits with E reg Orions that generally stick to 42mph on A roads, B roads, motorways and going past schools.

    I have an idea... why don't we screw the driver even more!

    I thought about the speed limiter thing, and it just won't happen as it can't make any money for the govt.

    Must stop ranting now! I'm off to destroy a few cameras!

    ps nearly forget, Nottingham tram system was a w4nk idea that has destroyed to road infrastructue in Nottingham, and the NCC is currently destroying the city centre to grid lock it in preperation for tolls.
    #8
  9. nicks3
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    nicks3 Member

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    Mof, don't start me on the city centre!

    My office is at the top of Maid Marion Way and thanks to the new road improvements it now takes me 15 minutes longer to get home! I'm currently looking to move my business out of the city.
    #9
  10. amoffat
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    amoffat Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    nicks3 said:
    Mof, don't start me on the city centre!

    My office is at the top of Maid Marion Way and thanks to the new road improvements it now takes me 15 minutes longer to get home! I'm currently looking to move my business out of the city.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Spooky, I'm in CityGate East!
    #10
  11. Moresauce
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    Moresauce Member

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    Like Moff, I do the drive every weekday, but in reverse! It will know force people to ovetake on the dangerous bits rather than on that superwide section!! Utter madness /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif


    As for the trams what a bag o *****, they first section to open is the section that runs in from Hyson Green etc. and so that will give all the thives a nice quick link to the city centre to performe a variety of crimes and then quickly get out of town. As for the tolls well as I live in the centre of town, I should be exempt or at the very least subject to a lower rate, The Park are monitoring the situation very carefully I'm told.

    They should put the specs sites where the Nova boys and the other to$$ers go racing. I bet there are some accidents within weeks over the new A52 Specs sites going live as people overtake in more dangerous situations.
    #11
  12. excursion
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    excursion Member

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    I'm all for taking them out.

    This country sucks.
    #12
  13. dbm
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    dbm Active Member

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    Guys,
    I agree that the government is speed camera craxy, but in these circumstances SPECS are the lesser of the evil cameras.

    Because they measure your average speed over distance, if you get stuck at 40mph for a minute behind and lorry, then you can afford to do 80mph for a minute between the cameras and so overtake.

    Lets say 3 miles between cameras, that means 3 minutes to go from one t'other at 60mph. In 1 minute at 40mph you would cover 0.66 miles, 1 minute at 80mph would get you 1.33 miles, and the last minute back at 60mph (after the overtake) gets you the last mile. So, 3 miles covered in 3 minutes either way.

    In these circumstances SPECS cameras are less of a pain in the @$$ than Gatso cameras.

    Maths is your friend... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    Cheers,
    Dan
    #13
  14. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    dbm said:
    Guys,
    I agree that the government is speed camera craxy, but in these circumstances SPECS are the lesser of the evil cameras.

    Because they measure your average speed over distance, if you get stuck at 40mph for a minute behind and lorry, then you can afford to do 80mph for a minute between the cameras and so overtake.

    Lets say 3 miles between cameras, that means 3 minutes to go from one t'other at 60mph. In 1 minute at 40mph you would cover 0.66 miles, 1 minute at 80mph would get you 1.33 miles, and the last minute back at 60mph (after the overtake) gets you the last mile. So, 3 miles covered in 3 minutes either way.

    In these circumstances SPECS cameras are less of a pain in the @$$ than Gatso cameras.

    Maths is your friend... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    Cheers,
    Dan

    [/ QUOTE ]

    In a way.. but atleast with Gatso's you can slow down before them, and speed up after them...

    Rich
    #14
  15. amoffat
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    amoffat Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    dbm said:
    Guys,
    I agree that the government is speed camera craxy, but in these circumstances SPECS are the lesser of the evil cameras.

    Because they measure your average speed over distance, if you get stuck at 40mph for a minute behind and lorry, then you can afford to do 80mph for a minute between the cameras and so overtake.

    Lets say 3 miles between cameras, that means 3 minutes to go from one t'other at 60mph. In 1 minute at 40mph you would cover 0.66 miles, 1 minute at 80mph would get you 1.33 miles, and the last minute back at 60mph (after the overtake) gets you the last mile. So, 3 miles covered in 3 minutes either way.

    In these circumstances SPECS cameras are less of a pain in the @$$ than Gatso cameras.

    Maths is your friend... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    Cheers,
    Dan

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry, but I ain't got time to overtake and then reduce speed etc to try and work out whether or not I am going to squeeze in below the average speed threshold! It will deter almost all other drivers as well, so overtaking will be pointless.

    They are also going to do multiple sites in a row, so you unless you are counting or know the road, you are not going to know whether the camera you go past is the first or second one, making it even harder!

    Believe me, from my Nottingham SPECs experience, the are FAR worse than ANY other speed camera system.
    #15
  16. danh
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    danh New Member

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    Should've seen it coming though - how else are they going to raise the revenue to pay for the tram? It goes through all the scuzzy areas of Nottingham, so the fares will have to be subsidised from our speeding fines.

    Had heart failure when I read the original note as I had a very good run on the A46/A606/A52 on Tuesday with a 330Ci - wouldn't have seen a camera if it was there
    #16
  17. MushroomMan
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    MushroomMan Sucemabite

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    Welcome to nanny Britain. She's tightening her apron strings and won't stop until she's suffocated her baby.

    Britain is run by anals with no balls. Sitting in their town halls, court rooms and committees, they perpetually fiddle with their leglislative privates for the sake of it and pass laws only to avoid being held personally liable.

    In this gutless society, driven by fear and cowardice, thieves sue their victims, asylum seekers who don't disappear (i.e. the honest ones) are persecuted and the police just sit in their cars watching for speeders or drivers eating sandwiches while, just round the corner, a group of crackhead kids runs havoc in a housing estate, burgling properties and setting fire to parked cars in broad daylight.

    I'm going to live in France, it's got that bad.
    #17
  18. Drystone
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    Drystone Member

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    Well said Bruno. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/goofy.gif

    Christian
    #18
  19. Justin
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    Justin New Member

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    I use the A52 every day, but the Derby to Notts stretch, but will keep a mental note when travelling East.

    I'm up on the Ropewalk so manage to miss the mayhem on Maid Marion Way, but its a nightmare when I nip out during the day.

    Nick, if you need any help acquiring a new property, give me a shout, I'm in the property game (Chesterton)
    #19
  20. MushroomMan
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    MushroomMan Sucemabite

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    It's hard to imagine that they could do any further damage to the road system around Nottingham, but it looks like they have.

    Frankly it's amazing that a city the size of Nottingham has no dual carriageway into it - from any side. The A52 from J25 of the M1 becomes a bottleneck at Wollaton and the A453 from J24 is known as the road from hell, for good reason. You travel at the speed of the slowest HGV before finally grinding to a halt at Clifton. If you don't know your way through the villages, etc, then it takes about 40 mins from the M1, a great advert for visitors and business people coming from London and the South East.

    They have taken over 30 years to do something about widening this road. Almost certainly someone in County Highways will think it necessary to put cameras there after it has been widened, if it ever is. Afterall, once traffic has been freed up, then is the time for the speed revenue collection machine.

    #20
  21. amoffat
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    amoffat Member

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    Bruno, I whole heartily agree with you. I am also seriously considering moving abroad. Its more likely to be Italy or Spain rather than France, and if I get my way it will be Italy with the added advantage of a *sensible* police force who regard muggings and burglaries with real contempt unlike the UK and ensure that the police are busy tacklng real crime and not traffic offences.
    #21
  22. excursion
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    excursion Member

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    Here Here, parents looking at a second home in Spain and I'll be doing the same when the cash is available.
    #22
  23. GolfTTish
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    GolfTTish Member

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    You've all got a choice. We live in a democracy so you can vote them out. Problem is there are 10 idiots voting for every one of us.
    Option 2. take an example from the dutch, and burn them down/bomb them/ paint the lenses faster than they can replace them.
    Direct action, it's the way forward.

    Ps you aint seen me!
    #23
  24. excursion
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    excursion Member

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    I'm well up for that, I think some lead shot would do the job.
    #24
  25. MushroomMan
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    MushroomMan Sucemabite

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    All we need is a hydrolic lift, a tractor and a long chain.

    The cameras are too expensive to replace once floored.
    #25
  26. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    When everyone is forced to stick to unrealistic speed limits, billions spent on digital cameras everywhere, oh? accidents have actually increased? How can that be?
    Speeding does not cause accidents!! It is just a small contributing factor. It's lack of concentration & nervous hesitant drivers that cause accidents. So if we're all focussed on our speedo's, accidents will increase. Also there will be more hours spent on the roads, as each journey will take longer, therefore more accidents. If the gov't seriously wanted to reduce accidents, why don't they concentrate on the people who cause accidents, rather than persistant speeders who've never had one. The police should fine & point people for having an accident. 3 accidents in 3 years and you get a ban, freeing up the roads for people who know what the [censored] they're doing. It wouldn't even take any man power, as the insurance companies could report each incident, and a ticket issued automatically to the offender. It would be interesting to have a "no speed limit on the motorway day" to see if this increased/decreased accidents. Can someone organise this ASAP please?
    #26
  27. MushroomMan
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    MushroomMan Sucemabite

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Drystone said:
    Well said Bruno. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/goofy.gif

    Christian

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Cheers Christian. It took some guts to say it. As you know, my thoughts on the French have been well documented in other threads on this forum.
    #27
  28. RAPS3
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    RAPS3 Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    GolfTTish said:
    Direct action, it's the way forward.

    Ps you aint seen me!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Here, here mate. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile_smoking.gif
    #28
  29. MushroomMan
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    MushroomMan Sucemabite

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    OK - let's mobilise. Enough of this talk, let's do.
    #29
  30. amoffat
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    amoffat Member

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    I've got a hack saw and a hammer, can I join the party /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif
    #30
  31. Moresauce
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    Moresauce Member

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    The idea that speed kills is utter c**p! If spped kilss all racing drivers would be dead, as would pilots and most traffic cops too!

    Bad driving kills this includes use of speed in the wrong areas but doing 100 down a empty motorway in the dry when fully awake is not going to kill you. They should crack down on all the idiots that speed past schools etc. but to overtake on a clear piece of dual cariageway....

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/piss.gif Speed Cameras
    #31
  32. Moresauce
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    Moresauce Member

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    The site in NOT yet live, the posts are they but no cameras yet!

    Will keep you all updated
    #32
  33. Moresauce
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    Moresauce Member

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    The guardian might be a c**p paper but look at what they wrote following the new Home Office report! Seeing how they have dealt with all my correspondence confims this.

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

    [ QUOTE ]
    Notts police singled out as the worst

    Alan Travis, home affairs editor
    Thursday May 22, 2003
    The Guardian



    Inspectors have refused to certify Nottinghamshire's police as an "effective and efficient" force in a report that suggests they are the worst in England and Wales.

    The report by HM inspector of constabulary, David Blakey, which was published yesterday, says the police performance was so poor last April "that if you lived, worked in or visited Notts, you were more likely to have a crime committed against you than anywhere else in the country".

    Despite a reorganisation plan put into effect by the chief constable, Steve Green, in the past year, the inspectors say there are key areas that still require urgent attention.

    The reorganisation was carried out at a time when Nottinghamshire was hit by a sharp rise in drug-related gun crime and an abnormal level of murders.

    The Home Office police standards unit is already "assisting the force in a number of areas". A further negative report could lead to Nottinghamshire becoming the first force to see direct intervention by the Home Office under the powers of a new police reform act.

    The report said Nottinghamshire had:

    · One of the lowest detection rates in the country

    · Insufficient staff in new control rooms, which had led to a huge decrease in the speed with which 999 calls were answered

    · Two sets of police officers turning up at the same incidents unaware that the other team had been sent

    · A record of taking from 24 to 48 hours for scenes of crime officers to attend burglaries.

    Mr Blakey said: "When the force performance was assessed at the end of the financial year 2002 it was one of the worst performing in the country. Following the reorganisation in April 2002, there was a fall in performance against national andlocal targets."

    The force had reclaimed that ground and in some cases substantially improved, but the inspectors refused to certify Nottinghamshire as an "effect-ive and efficient force".

    Mr Green defended the revamp. "I'm optimistic the crime rate will continue to fall."




    [/ QUOTE ]
    #33
  34. ColinM
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    ColinM Member

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    Another way to do something about this is to fax your MP. A brief complaint and he is legally obliged to reply to you. Don't know who your MP is? Then just use this site, www.faxyourmp.com
    #34
  35. amoffat
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    amoffat Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Colin M said:
    Another way to do something about this is to fax your MP. A brief complaint and he is legally obliged to reply to you. Don't know who your MP is? Then just use this site, www.faxyourmp.com

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Right then, I have just sent a fax to my lovely MP. I shall now sit back and wait for his reply.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Dear Rt Hon Kenneth Clarke QC,

    I would like to complain about the new placement of the SPEC's safety camera on the A52 and of the use of these types of safety cameras.

    Firstly the first site located at the beginning of the A52 towards Grantham, just after the Saxondale roundabout is on a very safe stretch of road. In my two years of residence in Bingham (I also use the road at least twice per day) I have never seen an accident. This stretch is a very wide section of the A52 allowing vehicles to safely overtake slower large or HGV vehicles.

    By placing the first camera here it will mean that this is no longer possible, and drivers will be further frustrated and stuck to 40-50mph in a 60mph zone. This in turn will cause dangerous overtaking manoeuvres whereby drivers will try and maintain 60mph whilst overtaking to avoid prosecution and will be concentrating more on their speed than on their driving.

    I understand that at the top of the road there is the busy junction that I use everyday and effort should be made to ensure drivers 'drive' safely through this junction. The first camera site should have been placed much closer to this junction.

    Drivers will become even more cynical when we see obvious and dangerous revenue generators such as this one being installed. Can ask why there has never been a safety camera installed on Nottingham's most dangerous road, the A453. The simple answer would be that due to the huge amount of traffic, vehicles are unable to travel above 40mph, ensuring that there would be no revenue from such camera's.

    SPEC's camera's do not account for the fastest and most dangerous users of our roads, motorcyclists. SPEC's only record from the front, and motorbikes have no registration plates on the front, thus making them exempt from prosecution. This is ridiculous.

    I fully support saftey schemes that are going to actively reduce the number of deaths on our roads, but this needs to be tackled firstly with improved roads and junctions in parallel with better eductation of todays driver. It is not speed that kills but dangerous and careless driving.

    Thank you for you time, I look forward to your reply.

    Regards

    Andy Moffat


    [/ QUOTE ]
    #35
  36. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Hurrah, well put. I like the positive bit at the end, so you don't sound like a persistent speeder, although you obviously are (aren't we all?). Also nice touch not mentioning the car you drive (would give the game away methinks).
    I'm gonna do the same about SPECs camera's that have just appeared in Southampton on ludicrously safe dual carriageways.
    If we can't beat them a least we can annoy them.
    #36
  37. Moresauce
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    Moresauce Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    AndyMac said:

    I'm gonna do the same about SPECs camera's that have just appeared in Southampton on ludicrously safe dual carriageways.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Andy where are they, spend quite a bit of time in the Hamble so occasionaly nip into Southampton, let me guess somewhere like the Avenue?
    #37
  38. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    No, Avenue still clear at the moment. There are 3 on the 3 lane Millbrook road going out of town towards Totton, New Forest etc. 2 going out of city (one on the 30mph section, both sides, where they have been "investigating a weak bridge" for about 4 years), & one near the Shell garage 50mph going out of city.
    And one on the 30mph Bitterne dual carriageway under the Safeway bridge going out of city up the hill. This used to be a common speed trap location, got done there myself once.
    Both roads are completely safe but have ludicrous 30mph speed limits. Millbrook road is a 3 lane dual carriageway purely for traffic, no pavements, no pedestrians, but the permanent roadworks have a 30mph limit, for no reason at all, as there are never any workmen around. These are the only speed cameras in Southampton (there are traffic light camera's, but most have no film). And I imagine they are just the start, as they will earn a fortune. Thankfully, Thomas Lewis Way is still clear, and always good for a bit of a race to and from the M27. Seen plenty of rear wheel drive cars lose it into the ditch coming off the J5 roundabout, one was a DB7.
    #38
  39. MushroomMan
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    MushroomMan Sucemabite

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    Andy,

    An excellent letter which managed to keep control without too much frothing.

    Not sure about the reference to the A453 however as I frequently achieve a modest 120kph + when coming back from Nottingham late at night. However I never speed in built up areas for the single simple reason that I like cats.

    I'm sure Ken will sympathise although unlikely to be able to do anything about it. These anti-speed freaks seem to have got well inside the ear of Government who are only too pleased to use their absurd hysterical claims as justification for revenue collection. There was one on the radio last night who claimed that every day two people were killed on the roads due to speeding. That is a complete lie and distortion - they are now attributing any accident to speed simply because the vehicle was moving at the time! she also spoke in a that pained slimy self-satisfied I'm-so-very-sensitive-and-concerned whine that makes me chuck.

    I say string them all up by their nanny apron pulls and let uncle Monty have his weird and wicked way with them.

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love_4.gif
    #39
  40. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I just love that "kill your speed" advert, where they show some clapped out old "non specific" car sliding into some poor kid in slow motion. "If this car had been going just 5mph slower he would have stopped in time". If this car had been going 5mph faster he would have passed the kid before he stepped out in the road. While not condoning speeding in built up areas, I do get fed up with the easy target attitude that it is always the motorists fault. Like if we could all manage to stick to 30mph there would be no accidents. I also like the fact that the caring parent drivers MILT's (mothers in leather trousers) all tend to drive enormous SUV's with bull bars on the front, ideal for ploughing into little johnny at 30mph, without damaging the bodywork. Am I missing something?
    #40

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