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New penalties to tackle tailgating and middle lane hogging

Discussion in 'General Automotive Chat' started by ScottD3, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics

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    [Jun 5, 2013]
    #1
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  3. kwistof
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    kwistof South East Events Moderator Regional Rep

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    [Jun 5, 2013]
    Bloody hope so then enforce it- saw this on the BBC this morning and going to have a quick read in my lunch...

    £100 fine from what I heard and also will apply to the seatbelt and mobile phone offences.
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  4. ESD1711
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    ESD1711 Active Member

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    [Jun 5, 2013]
    From reading it, its not really to do with middle lane hogging or tailgaiting - just cites those as examples.

    Police now have power to deal with 'careless driving' by means of a fixed penalty. Lane hogging and tailgaiting are just examples of those.
    #3
  5. Artimus
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    Artimus Short Back

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    [Jun 5, 2013]
    Saw it on the News & it'll be interesting to note the results in a month or two. Proper education would be a better way forward in my opinion though! People with foreign licenses need to be made to take an English driving course or test before being allowed on Motorways, and learners need to be educated in Motorway etiquette before being set loose on the rest of us.

    In the meantime, I'll take better Policing of bad driving as a close second. i.e: On my way home from a course in London last night, I was exiting a practically empty M1 (start indicating at the 300 meter board), a driver in front, slowed down so suddenly she was only doing 35mph by the time she reached the 100m marker & she didn't bother testing her indicators either, but she exited anyway. If the roads had been busier, someone could easily have rear ended her car & been blamed for it.

    Now I just need to slow down a little before karma sneaks up and bites me in the baahind. oh, & it's the lane hoggers that usually create the tailgaters.

    KEEP LEFT, UNLESS OVERTAKING people. :)
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  6. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    [Jun 5, 2013]
    All of this is 100% what I would have said.
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  7. AlexGSi2000
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    AlexGSi2000 Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    As mentioned above, motorway "etiquette" is not tought during driving lessens unless additional lessons/pass plus is taken.

    Its down to a new driver to pick this up, unfortunatley - some dont.
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  8. @udi A3
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    @udi A3 Site Sponsor Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    I still stay in the middle lane. Crawlers in the left lane, people entering in the left lane, tram lines down the left lane, all make the middle lane the safe choice for driving at the 70mph speed limit.

    Anybody getting angry as they cruise up behind me in the middle lane in excess of the speed limit can either : a) slow the **** down and stay behind me, b)drive around me in the outside lane and keep speeding, 3) undercut at speed cos your an idiot and lose control on any of the previously mentioned left hand lane obsticles.

    Whilst I am not trying to force you to drive at the correct speed, i refuse to allow your speeding to affect my middle lane driving, and im sorry, but ill tell any undercover officer driving up behind me to do the same and then ticketing me the same.

    However, If for some reason i feel the need to drive slower than the speed limit ill happily swap lanes.
    FYI driving this way has caused no accidents involving me or others in the 16+ years i have been driving.
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  9. ESD1711
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    ESD1711 Active Member

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    Whether its cause any accidents or not is irrelevant i'm afraid.

    Its selfish, its inconsiderate and its 'wrong'.

    Your excuses are weak.
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  10. @udi A3
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    @udi A3 Site Sponsor Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    Just wanted to add to my post while your all cursing me...

    If while driving you cause another driver to slow down or change direction, you are acting dangerously. This is explained when you learn to drive, ie get up to moterway speeds as quick as possible to avoid slowing other users down. Dont sit at 40 on a 60 road, a tractor should pull over when 5+ cars are queing up behind him.

    So if im in the left lane at 70 and a lorry is coming into view, your travelling at 75-80 in the middle lane, are you going to move over or slow down to let me out? bear in mind i see you behind me and assume you are matching my 70mph, I should have no problem moving out. Chances are you are the real middle lane hog sticking at 80, causing me to slow up. Your at fault for speeding and forcing me to change my driving speed/direction.

    How about another scenario, 2 lorries one on the crawler doing 53mph, another overtaking doing 56, if im on the left i have 2 lanes of speeding traffic to cross into, if im already in the middle the lorry either waits, or i have only one lane to move into to go round safely.

    I wish there was a way to report those idiots that fly past at 90-100mph+ , but even with black vue the police cannot do anything as the equipment is not sanctioned for that use.

    My rant is long as i drive 30-40k miles a year, 90% moterway, and live in a speed reduction area on the A1. I see people speeding through daily, I see accident clearups weekly, sometimes 3-4 times a week. My driving style has kept me out of these accidents.
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  11. @udi A3
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    @udi A3 Site Sponsor Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    You think its wrong that i cause you to slow to the speed limit.
    You are the selfish one for speeding.

    If you are not speeding, exactly where is the issue?
    #10
  12. ESD1711
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    ESD1711 Active Member

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    The speed you're doing and the speed i'm doing is irrelevant. The rule is return to the left after overtaking - that doesnt all of a sudden become negotiable just cos you're already at the speed limit.
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  13. @udi A3
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    @udi A3 Site Sponsor Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    True:

    However I still anticipate the next hazard and stay in the middle lane unless clearly there is nothing at all in front of me.
    Meanwhile your speed is relevant to every other road user when you are speeding. If there is a free lane to my right, use it and dont let my middle lane hogging concern you.
    #12
  14. Brodster
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    Brodster Shark Performance In Scotland Regional Rep Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    I can see both points of view and I tend to stick to the left but when put like this I can fully understand why people hogg the middle lane.

    "The safest place on a 3 lane road when there is no other traffic around is the middle lane because it gives you the greatest margin of error should anything go wrong. It also affords you the greatest field of view both ahead and behind, so plenty of time to move safely to the left when another vehicle is approaching from behind. "
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  15. wangdoodle
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    wangdoodle Member

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    The above is Correct!

    Goodness me there are some pricks around!!!
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  16. Artimus
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    Artimus Short Back

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    Most lane-hoggers are the same ones that tend to speed up instead of moving left when someone catches them up! They accelerate between the gaps in left\middle lane traffic and slow back down when they've caught up so they don't have to move over ...and if @hogger says "not me guv" I call BS - you're all too lazy to drive properly, you encourage others to do the same at "safer" speeds, your selfish driving is responsible for tailgating & undertaking. I've been pleading for years for something to be done to tackle clueless & inconsiderate drivers.

    This was my pet hate when I used to drive 50'000+ miles a year! It's the reason so much green belt is being concreted over for new or wider roads. Now I'm a fairly tolerant person in normal situations, but this attitude boils my piss quicker than any nuclear reactor could. Anyone that drives more than the national average miles per year is to be considered a professional, and a professional driver should know better.

    KEEP the flock LEFT!

    edit: something wrong with the swear filter or is P*ss not considered offensive now? ;)
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
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  17. Audi Doodah
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    Audi Doodah Active Member

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    You cannot assume everyone is traveling the same speed and it is your responsibility to ensure you make lane changes when there is space and time to do so and adjust your driving accordingly. Expecting a driver in the lane to your right to slow down to let you in is irresponsible and is a cause of slowing the flow of traffic by a) forcing the driver to brake and having the same effect on the cars following them, or, b) forcing an ill-timed decision for that driver to move right and causing sudden braking of vehicles in the outside lane. This can happen with cars further back also, and ultimately slows all three lanes of traffic.
    #16
  18. A4_MaJiK
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    A4_MaJiK Azeem

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    The Highway Code states that drivers must keep to the left unless overtaking. There is no valid excuse to hog the middle lane!
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  19. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    And here people is the person who gets Audi drivers a bad name. Your inconsiderate driving turns a three lane motorway into a two lane road. People drive at different speeds for a reason, do you ever think of that Mr perfect driver?

    Here is an example, several years ago my wife's father was taken to hospital with a heart attack. we are in Brum he is in Kent. We drove down there at three in the morning. I lost count of he amount of times I was held up by slow drivers in the outside lane who were overtaking other drivers in the middle lane who were just sat there over taking nothing. We didn't make it, he passed away ten minutes before we got there, My wife never got chance to say goodbye to her father. And I blame the inconsiderate drivers who lane hogged for holding me up.
    @udiA3, I hope one day it happens to you I really do, then maybe you might understand that there are other road users and you are not the most important person on the road despite your selfishness.
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  20. ESD1711
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    ESD1711 Active Member

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    Y'know those big old signs over the carriageways which state 'FRUSTRATION CAUSES ACCIDENTS'? Well this thread just goes to show exactly how much frustration can be caused by folk unnecessarily hogging the middle lane.


    So, whilst you might not directly cause an accident yourself, you are contributing to the kinda frustration which could lead to an accident a bit further down the road.
    #19
  21. Gaz!
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    Gaz! Member

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    This is the type of self righteous fool that clogs the motorways. This causes congestion and accidents. You say you never speed, I'll call you a liar.
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  22. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    Wow, that's not a nice story.

    My 2p - I used to do 1,000 miles per week I saw many police/ambulance/fire engines stuck in the outside lane with their sirens blaring at idiots sat in lane 2 or 3. I used to work in hospitals in and around the north of England and southern Scotland and often had to be at a different hospital in as quick a time as possible. Although I wasn't directly involved in helping patients the doctors and nurses needed me to be there to do their job properly, and that meant (quote from my manager at the time), "do whatever speed is possible to get there or people will die, and you don't want that on your mind, we'll sort your fines out if you get any". OK, it wasn't legal per se but the amount of people that would get in the way at 60mph in the outside lane was embarrassing.

    As mentioned above, stay left unless you're overtaking.
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  23. @udi A3
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    @udi A3 Site Sponsor Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    Im sitting here lol'ing at you all. Wonder how many of you eat drink smoke or use the phone whilst cursing middle Lane hogs? Would be interesting to see who gets a ticket First!
    #22
  24. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    Not even a hint of accepting that you might be wrong and changing your mind...

    I do none of those things you mentioned.

    Give me your address I'll send you a Highway Code dude.
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  25. @udi A3
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    @udi A3 Site Sponsor Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    I acknowledged the highway code and the keep left ruling.
    Maybe my cautious middle lane hogging isnt actually what you all consider hogging... but i still dont intend to change how i drive.

    So judderman, your boss says put your head in a gas oven and inhale.... would you do it? First responders do have a duty, but even drivers with blue lights have to obey certain rules, like not using the sirens in congested traffic.

    Picture a young child 500 yards away choking, your in a bus with blue lights on at a junction, one car in front of you stopped at the red light, you put your sirens on that driver panics, stalled then reverses into the ambulance immobilizing it. Choking child dies as paramedic doesnt get there in time. Who is to blame? the driver who panics or the bus driver for putting them under pressure? The siren served no purpose, they wasnt trying to force that car over a red light was they?

    I actually take pride in my ability to judge the road, and i tend to always be aware of whats around me, making it as safe as possible for authorities to pass. Unfortunately this normally means my effort to allow safe passing is thwarted by the next driver slowing them down.

    Unlike you sidibear, despite our difference of opinions i wouldn't wish what you and your family went through on anyone.
    #24
  26. JudderMan
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    JudderMan Active Member

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    I can this going on forever, so I'm going to bow out but I'm glad you acknowledge the Highway Code. Hopefully the UK goes the US way and doesn't stop undertaking as people can just sit in any lane they want over there.

    I'm my own boss so I wouldn't put my head in an oven :)
    #25
  27. davc
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    davc Foursprung Duck Technik

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    I always use the left lane if it is safe to do so and I know I'm not going to be compromised by someone else approaching from behind.

    Although I don't agree with middle lane hogging, IMO if you're doing over 70mph and the road is busy with lorries and other slow moving vehicles in lane 1, it is actually safer to remain in the middle lane because like @udiA3 said there are a lot of idiots that come up the middle lane and block you from moving out, rather than letting you out in front of them or moving into lane 3 for them to pass safely. This, I believe, is the reason why so many people do it. Of course there is the other group who don't actually have a clue in the first place due to a lack of education.

    The thing that annoys me most on motorways is when I'm in the outside lane overtaking slower cars at 75-80mph and some tosser comes right up my chuff expecting me to speed up to let them pass just because he is doing 90mph. 20 years ago I would've nailed it but now I let them wait till I'm ready to move over.

    My other pet hate is people that indicate and move out just as you're about to pass them. This happened to me on the M6 last month and very nearly resulted in a crash. I was in the middle lane and about to pass a Honda Jazz when the old twonk indicated and nearly took me out. Luckily I kniew there was nothing in lane 3 so swerved to avoid him :wtf:How he didn't see a bright orange car with DRL's on in broad daylight amazes me to this day.

    What I would say though is that constant lane changes from left to middle to right and vice versa actually makes drivers more alert because they are constantly having to read the road ahead and behind and anticipate more what is coming next, something that your average lane hogger is probably not doing.

    What I'd like to see the police do is spend more time chasing burglars, criminal gangs and rapists/paedophiles who make people's lives a misery, rather than the average motorist, who is a soft target. What we will probably see is a huge rise in people being fined as they continue to abuse their powers in pursuit of revenue.

    Rant over...
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  28. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    I think @udiA3 needs to have a think about how many people he has inconvenienced by his selfish driving. The motorways are full of cameras and I hope when you start getting some fines you will realise you are not the only one on the road.

    @ Davc. Traffic police do traffic stuff, they are there to enforce traffic law, that is their job. There are other police to do chasing burglars and things. Just like there are police divers, dog handlers, forensics and the firearms team. You wouldn't expect a police diver to go legging through a town centre in a wet suit chasing a shoplifter for instance.
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  29. Luke2.0tdi2006
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    Luke2.0tdi2006 Member

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    A very very BIG +1... his/ANY EXCUSES for sitting in lane 2 unless overtaking are weak!! It's my biggest pet hate in the world.
    .ever!
    #28
  30. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    @udi A3 does have a point though. The hatred of middle lane hoggers (the ones who are doing the speed limit) is coming from those who are breaking the speed limit. Who's more in the wrong?

    To be honest, I don't get why people get SO annoyed by middle lane drivers. They don't annoy me in the slightest, I just go around them in the right hand lane.

    Let's face it, the motorways are never going to have everyone driving in the left lane, all at a nice 70mph.
    And even if we did manage to have everybody in the left lane when not overtaking this is what would happen.....

    We'd end up with three groups of motorway drivers.... 1) Those driving at less than 70mph in the left lane... 2) those wanting to drive bang on the speed limit at 70mph in the left, but having to pull out into the middle lane every few minutes to overtake group number 1.... and 3) those who travel at more than 70mph in the left lane who will pull out into the middle lane to overtake group 1, and then pull out into the right hand lane to overtake group 2, and then pull all the way back into the left lane.

    Basically it'll cause carnage.

    The only SAFE way it would all work is if everyone did 70mph in the left lane.... which is NEVER going to happen.

    My opinion.... get over your fury at middle lane drivers, there's always a way past them. Unless of course there is a right hand lane hogger, who DO ANNOY THE F*CK OUT OF ME!!!! These mofos are the ones who deserve to be tortured.
    #29
  31. ESD1711
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    ESD1711 Active Member

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    Hmmmm. Who's worse, someone who drives a 20 mile stretch of motorway at 75mph, but using the correct lane.... Or someone who drives the same stretch of motorway dead on 70 (which might well not actually even be 70 due to speedo inaccuracies), stubbornly staying in the middle lane for the duration....

    i know where my vote is going!
    #30
  32. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    No one mentioned 75mph and a 20 mile stretch.

    But if your very specific scenario did come about... move into the right hand lane... overtake... and get on with your life.
    #31
  33. Luke2.0tdi2006
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    Luke2.0tdi2006 Member

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    Or how about observing the highway code and driving in the 'driving lane' (lane 1) unless overtaking!!?? Simple
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  34. Artimus
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    Artimus Short Back

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    as my wife always says: two wrongs don't make a right! so speed & speeders are no excuse to hog the middle lane.

    I don't deny that I have driven at over the national speed limit ...by 1 or 2 mph, but I always return to the left lane when able to do so. I find the very act of lane changing reduces the monotony of motorway driving and makes for a more alert drive than just picking one lane at random and staying there come hell or high water! and I tend to vary my speed every so often too, which means I'll find myself driving amongst different groups every so often = more relief from boredom. On occasion I'll follow a train of trucks in the left lane to keep out of the sometimes intense rush that seems to happen every now and then - usually preceding a long uphill stretch that sees lorries\coaches passing each other.

    In fact - If I were ever to drive above the speed limit, I might even prefer to do so in the left lane because it would be less conspicuous to any potential observers.

    It's wistful to think that every middle lane hogger sets their speed at 70 and keeps it there, because the reality is for as many middle lane hoggers that do 70 mph, there are an equal amount that think it's fine to do less than 70 in the same manner...

    "70's not a target it's a limit and I prefer to drive below the limit! nag, nag." and "The guy that just passed me only returned to the middle and he's not catching anyone else to overtake, so it must be okay for me to stay here too ..so there. :moa:"

    @udiA3 is in fact teaching others that it's okay to stay in the middle lane regardless of their speed (or the lack thereof).
    #33
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  35. sidibear
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    sidibear Looking for Zombies !! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    Trucks go fast downhill to assist getting up the other side at a reasonable speed. How many times have you seen a truck up the arse of someone hogging the middle lane ?
    Also, just south of Luton on the M1 it goes to four lanes, how often do you see someone in lane three not overtaking anyone?

    Ads, its not just about speed, its also about courtesy to other road users. Treat others as you wish to be treated.
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  36. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    The french and spanish do really well with their lanes.

    Why can't we?
    #35
  37. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    Do you observe the highway code fully?

    Ever enter a roundabout in the "wrong" lane on purpose? Ever do something you probably shouldn't to get you a little further ahead in your journey?

    Yeah, two wrongs don't make a right, but all this high and mighty moral attitude about middle lane drivers from people (who the majority of the time are just irritated about the middle lane drivers being there rather than actually having a good reason for being irritated) just makes me laugh.

    And for the record, I'm not a middle lane hogger, I just go about my business and only get irritated when someone is really stopping me from getting there with no way around them.
    #36
  38. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    I know what you mean, and maybe it's driving in and around London for so long that has "toughened" me up and made me more thick skinned, but people take stuff too personally on the road.

    All this anger at people who drive in the middle lane.... just seems OTT to me.
    #37
  39. ESD1711
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    ESD1711 Active Member

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    i was just about to say something along those lines.

    Send the lane hoggers over to drive in France, see how they get on there!
    #38
  40. ESD1711
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    ESD1711 Active Member

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    The thing is Ads, up here a lot of our motorway network is two lane carriageways, and the principles and excuses of the middle lane hogger get used the same, but the middle lane in these cases is actually the outside lane.... Thus, there is no third lane to pass them.
    #39
  41. Artimus
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    Artimus Short Back

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    As a former truck driver, I can say it would be nice to have been able to just go about my business, But what sidibear says has happened to me on just about every journey in the cab, and is exactly what you say irks you. Truck drivers can't use the outside lane, so a 60mph middle lane hogger halts their progress until said hogger gets a sense of fair play.

    They're selfish & inconsiderate, but as long as they're okay that's all that matters.
    #40

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