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Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by pablo, Aug 22, 2006.
The theoretical max power of a K04 is 299.7 running at 31.2psi (2.1barg).
C'mon, i'm sure the theoretical max power of a K03 is more than 200bhp but you never see real-world figures beyond that.
This ain't a p*ssing contest. Simply pointing out the cast manifold is suitable for power beyond that of the K04; power that is actually achievable not just based on theoretical flow rates.
Not a p!ssing contest at all, just pointing out the limits of the K04. ATP make no claims at 300bhp for their Eliminators. The GT2x makes its 290bhp, and the GTRS can make it's claimed 350bhp. Both proven at Star Performance and niether able to make the numbers on a standard manifold. I don't know of anyone running a GT2871R so I can't say much about it's apparent 400bhp..
ATP's on blurb, so take the power claims with a pinch of salt (as it should be with anyones power claim )
The newly developed GT2X bolt-on turbo unit makes for an exceptional replacement for both the K03 and K04 turbo customer who likes their turbo in the stock location utilizing the stock exhaust manifold. This turbo is also for the customer that does not want to miss out on the low end grunt or torque of the stock turbo. However with the GT2X, expect to be pleasantly surprised by the flatness of the torque band and linear power delivery all the way to redline. Unlike the K03/K04 series, the GT2X has been designed to allow for a full power band on the 1.8T engine without choking up after 5000 rpm due to excessive backpressure at the turbine (a common problem even for customers that have upgraded from a K03 to K04).
What makes up the GT2X is a combination of a highly efficient small frame Garrett turbo cartridge (consisting of a highly optimized wheel combination that is fully assembled and high speed balanced from the Garrett factory) and an ATP cast exhaust housing that has been designed to further optimize the turbo for the 20V 1.8T allowing it to reach its highest efficiency range during normal operation. The result is nothing short of spectacular an awesome breathing turbo and engine combination that likes to rev! In terms of performance, the GT2X (even though a non-ball bearing turbo) has the ability to start building boost right off idle speeds with more than 200 ft/lb of torque available from 2500 rpm all the way to redline, giving it the feeling of a powerful V8. This turbo, with its modern GT wheel aerodynamics, has the unique ability to make boost now and not make any qualms about holding the boost to redline.
Have no fear about this turbo going KKKaboom. The GT2X turbo shaft is at least 25% larger than any K03/K04 turbo and since this turbo can provide peak HP without going outside of its peak efficiency range, it will not be forced to run at the reliability limits. This turbo happily makes a reliable 275 crank HP on pump gas and close to 300 crank HP on high octane.
I'm sure the K04 could make 300bhp at 30-odd psi. No idea how you'd run that sort of boost on a 1.8T though. Perhaps i should have said the K04 is restrictive beyond 260bhp when operating within the boost limits of the other 1.8T engine components?
Remap,perhaps slightly tweaked ,260bhp 280lb/t
After this prepare to spend £5-6k+ this should see a real 330-340bhp 320lb/t.
I have no problem putting 5k into the car to get an honest 350bhp.
For now Im happy enough to do some chassis upgrades then go from there. Maybe build up the fmic/exhaust and as much as possible before swapping the turbo out. Im guessing the clutches will need to be upgraded etc so these can be done one by one to take the sting out of the final bill.
Havent even picked the car up yet - roll on tomorrow lunchtime
Have you ever looked at a standard S3 turbo manifold?
You can hardly get your pinky doen the ports...pathetic.
You can bolt a turbo the size of Bournemouth onto it, but if you can't get the gas out of te engine, you are wasting time, money and effort.
I'm not saying you can't put a bigger compressor on a K04 and make more power...what I am saying it that you can get more out of a std K04 if you fit a better manifold.
I guess both become a restriction eventualy - as stated correcly by Chris - but in my view, the manifold comes first...then the turbo when you are already pushing the limts of the combination.
I suggest you budget another £5k on sorting out the **** chassis and brakes before you even think of dropping £5k into the engine...or you'll end up with a very fast straight line machine that's dangerous in everything but a straight line.
Sounds like that's the direction you are going anyway...
Bl##dy hell Glen where have you been?! Long time no see.
My S3 was making 275-280 BHP on any dyno you care to point it at....with 320-330 lb-ft torque, on a standard K04 and manifold....running 1.85-1.89 bar peak boost and some very efficient intercooling.
It was making those numbers 3 1/2 years ago...and 2 owners later, it's still making those numbers.
Pump fuel..no additives, standard internals.
I think there was perhaps abother 10BHP to go...and that would have been the absolute limit...
I have been destroying rear tyres and brakes all round in the yellow thing in the pic below!
Can't blame me for that, can you?
Addicted before you've even started? If you serious about 350bhp at some point in the future, then it'd be worth looking into now to ensure that any engine mods are going to be compatable. For example, it might be worth just stick a metal sleeve in the TIP if it's not going to fit on a big turbo and will need replacing.
But like Glen says, if you drop your money into the chassis first you'll be surprised how much speed you can carry through corners. His two year old advice still works good today
its excellent advice alright! Ill just have to see how it pans out. When something ceases to be adequate it will be upgraded. Thats the way I ran the M3 and ended out at a well sorted car.
what holds the turbo up is the tiny ports on the manifold. there is no pressure problem with a standard k04.
Imola S3 had the Eibach / Bilstein combination on his S3...and they were slightly harsher around town, as normal with Eibach springs, in my experience.
I don't recall there being much between them on the roads with the speeds high though...just the H&Rs semed a bit more compliant on potholes etc.
anyone tried the koni kit? adj shocks and springs for £380 ish. seems good value.
Konis tend to be harsh too...
I've had them on enough cars in the past (still do on my GTI).
I remember going for a spin in a TT with Konis on...good, but not as polished as the H&R / Bilstein combo.
Felt more harsh around town...too stiffly damped. Never got the chance to try it flat out on the open road sadly.
I'd agree with the above comments,any mods made at this stage need to be compatable with future mods.
I stand corrected, none of the ATP manifolds fit the S3
They've taken my one out and had to put the standard one back in, big waste of time and money.
gutted mate I was going to order one too!
picked it up today pretty happy with it but the suspension definately needs sorting. nailed on a wet roundabout the rear end was twitching like mad and I could feel the back end want to go. so definately want a suspension kit. just finding it hard to decide. koni is good value but dont want to loose too much comfort. cant find any info on the billy shocks to mate with H&Rs. Might give star a bell tomorrow see what they have unless there is someone else I should be talking to?
The back end wanted to go? Are you sure?
yup! could feel it twitching. nearly new F1 tyres on too
tried to PM you to see if you had any stuff left mate. lemme know if you do.
The S3 understeers out of trouble, so the arse twitching sounds very strange!
All stuff sold now... the springs and dampers were sold today.
aw **** Id have bought them off you.
My thought exactly...
It took me 3 years, £1000s, some aggressive suspension geometry and 330 lb-ft of torque being tricked into being dumper rearwards to get the back to wag on my S3.
Standard all they want to go is plough straight on...if yurs has a wayward back end it ust be broken.
They just don't do that normally.
maybe stepping out is the wrong description - I could feel the left wheels oscillate up and down a bit on hard cornering (turning right) in the wet as if it was about to slide.
That's the S3s ****, underdamped suspension at work there.
Back to my point about sorting the chassis out long before you add more power....with the suspension sorted to such an extent that you know exactly what the car is going to do at any time (which you can't predict with the wooly under-damped standard set-up) you'll find you can push the car harder and will be much quicker point to point.
I had my S3 step out twice...properly step out..as in pointing 90 degrees to the direction of travel...and it was down to the unpredictable Haldex system....that situation is not nice I can assure you.
Gave me a proper fright...
Arnt the b5 rs4's running ko4's ??? Dunno if there the same (i no theres 2 of em) but there good for 450-500bhp???? my mate had an amd mappd b5 rs4 running 440ish...... fast as foooooooooooook. lol.
I have an APR remap, milltek cat back, green panel filter, DV and it's running pretty well now.
The next step for me is the manifold that should see nigh on 300. Then I'll see how quickly I bored before upgrading to a new turbo!