NEW INSTALL!!

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imported_AudiAuto

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recently brought a 97 audi A3 black 3 door. had 2 buy the 1.6 for insurance as im 22. have completly upgraded the sound system with the following components and the prices for them in case anyone wants to buy similar parts:

Kenwood PSW9521 mp3/wmp head unit £379
2x Alpine 12" R Type subs around £200 each
2x Kenwood amps to power the subs around £190 each
Kenwood 6x9's fitted on the parcel shelf £100
Diamond Audio M651 13cm component speakers for the front, £370
Phoenix gold 250.2 tantrum amp to power the front components £349
Kenwood 10 disc changer around £100
over £200 worth of cabling/connectors 2 hook everything up.

obviously, this is a top of the range install in regards 2 the components used. im into my ice big time, the 1st thing i do when i buy a new car is rip out all the standard stuff and replace it. i always do it myself as well, looks perfect, u can't c any cabling or anything looks professional. sounds awesome, when i first hooked it up in my a3 the other day, the rear view mirror fell off from the bass! anyway, basically (im not boasting) i know a-z about car audio stuff/products, and about how they all fit together, which speakers are best, which subs r best etc etc, so if anyone got any questions or wants 2 know anything just ask me, one thing i noticed on this site is that there is a tad lack of knowledge when it comes to mid-high end ice setups, alot of ppl go and spend silly money on a head unit 4 example when they could get a much better one 4 the money. thats all!!

 
congrats on the new install... sounds awesome

did u have trouble fitting the 13 inch components? did u need an adaptor? did the tweeters fit nicely?
 
becuase in my last car, the stock rear speakers were 6x9s, so i HAD to buy 6x9's to replace them, thats y i fitted them in this car now cos i already had them. obviously the bass is one of the main advantages of 6x9's, its good if u dont have seperate subs, but ppl forget that top range 6x9s will also give u brilliant treble, and they r powerfull as well. if u have a good head unit like mine is, u can control the filtering/crossovers of the frequency's for every single speaker/sub in the car. so i have just set the high-pass filters to a level (120Khz) that doesnt give me any bass at all through my 6x9s, just pure treble and mid range.
 
are they on the parcel shelf chap? if so you'll get bass cancellation and possibly blow the 6x9s with the amount of air which is being moved

used to have a set of 6x9s myself but a good set of comps up front, i found, suited my listening tastes more

each to their own though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
bass from different sized speakers/subs will cause cancellation, as the 6x9s are effectively using the same airspace as your subs then the air moved by each speaker will cancel the others bass to an extent

which is the same ruling as why you arent meant to run 2 different sized subs /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

i went to a sound off where i beat someone who had 2 x 10" subs and 1 x 12" and i scored higher /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

ok yeah, thats what i thought u meant, but as i mentioned earlier, i have not got any bass at all comin from my 6x9's, as i have set the crossover high so i only get frequencies over 120khz, so there is no bass hence no bass cancellation. all the bass is comin from my 2x 12"s. at the moment my 2 subs are pushing 160db.
 
lol... u make me laugh...

thought u were into your "ICE"

if you were then u wouldnt have paid that much for all that for a start and also why the hell do u have the R Type Subs ???


if u know all what u say u know then you wouldnt have 6x9s also..


bored and going bed...

 
[ QUOTE ]
richy said:
lol... u make me laugh...

thought u were into your "ICE"

if you were then u wouldnt have paid that much for all that for a start and also why the hell do u have the R Type Subs ???


if u know all what u say u know then you wouldnt have 6x9s also..


bored and going bed...



[/ QUOTE ]

He knows his A-Z ICE lol.

Seems like I know more and I still have the factory stereo and Bose in my car.

Goodnite Richy
 
jojo & richy,

lol u 2 r funny, your last posts made me laugh, must be tha jokers in here.

Richy, y did i pay that much? check the prices and do your research mate b4 commenting, all the prices i paid was the lowest price that was available at the time that i brought it. I haven't paid more then wot the equipment was worth at the time of buying, in fact actually got it cheaper then RRP's.

The Kenwood HU, and the R Type subs were brought 2 years ago. At that time, that kenwood HU was the highest MP3 model that Kenwood made, selling for around £499 in most shops (£549 in Halfords) I got it for £379. The R Type subs may not be the best now, but were when they came out one of the best if not THE best Available for MY price range at the time. It was also voted the best in it's price range in numerous car audio mags, like "car stereo magazine".
Can u name me a sub 2 years ago that was better then the R Type and in that price range (around £150-£200)? Or a HU that u would have brought 2 years ago instead of my kenwood? Don't tell me anything u would buy now, or how much it costs at present. i brought it 2 years ago, so only what was available then counts.

Also, just becuase I know a-z of ice, what does that have to do with paying wot I paid??? if i know a-z of ferraris, does that mean i have to have the best ferraris as well?? is it not possible that i know a-z of ice, but as a student can't afford 2 buy the top stuff? obviously I would have 2x JL W7's with a 1000w RMS genesis amp and Boston Z6's if i could afford it, but i can't. i actually have the Dimaond Audio M651 components, the cheapest price i could find in UK was £369. Now, please enlighten me as to what components i SHOULD have brought instead of these, while your at it let me know wot competition spec compononets u have.

If you can't tell me how much i should have paid, or what i should have got instead thats better, then u can't really make an informed comment like u did can u??

In regards to 6x9's, like i said do some research, i said in a earlier post on this thread that the only reason i have them is becuase my last car had 6x9's in the rear as standard. so obviously i had to rip them out and fit them with new 6x9s. Of course i would rather not have them, but i can hardly put 13cm/17cm speakers in a 6x9 fitment. i took them out and put the stock ones back in when i sold the car. So becuase i had themanyway, i put them on my A3 when i got it the other week. If i was buyin new rear speakers from scratch, then i would buy new 6.5" to replace my standard rears. But as i already had these 6x9's, i couldnt justify spending money on a new set. so its got nothing to do with me thinking 6x9's would b good with my setup, its just that i HAD 2 buy them 4 my last car, thats all.

jojo,
I dunno wot u r even laughing about. What have u done? quoted someone else and then laughed? i bet u don't even know y richy actually thought that my system wasn't good.
With a standard HU and speakers, i doubt u know much about ice at all, let alone more then me. u didnt actually give any reason as to y u agreed with richy? come on, wot is your view? wot part of system isnt good? wot sub would u recommend instead? wot amp 2 run the sub u recommended? wot front components? will they sound better then the ones i already have? please let me know, your advice would b greatly recieved (that is, if you DO actually know).......

look forward to your reply's
 
You're right pimp, I am a bit of a joker on here, not as serious on ICE as you but know a thing or two about installations. I was simply laughing as you had quoted

[ QUOTE ]
top of the range install

[/ QUOTE ]

And I was just looking at your Spec list thinking, doesn't look top of the range to me, this is just my opinion of course. Also, you seemed to be a little stumped when Dean T was mentioning the bass cancellation with regards to using 6x9's and subs in the same air space, and also the use of a new sensor/mic for measuring SPL.

Anyways, there was no mention that you was on a budget in your first post so I was looking for the likes of JL W7's and 1000W RMS amps etc as you mentioned, but nevermind. It's getting late and I'm a bit tired, so probably typing a load of bull for all to be entertained. Of course I NEVER actually said your system was poor, probably sounds pretty good. Standard stereo in the car is good for listening to the radio, prefer my car to be quick, than weigh it down with amps and subs.

Heres a pic to cheer you up anyway, this the look you after?
 
ok well, lets forget bout all this. jojo, the reason that i looked stumped when dean said about bass cancellation is that, whilst i know that bass cancellation is when u have 2 different size speakers/subs producing bass, and one of them is going to cancell out the other, i had already said on a previous post that my 6x9's werent producing any bass at all becuase i had set the pass filter high. so therefore i wouldnt get any bass cancellation. then dean said i would get bass cancellation, i thought, how? as my 6x9's arent producing any bass? so i thought he might have been talking about something else.

anyway, in regards to the system, fair enough u saved for 2 year. but when i passed my test and got my first decent car (honda prelude), there was no way i was gonna wait 2 years b4 buying my ice, i just brought what was best 4 my budget at the time. anyway, just becuase a lot of boyracers have them, doesnt mean they r not good subs. i looked into a custom build for 6.5" in my last car but it was waaaaaaaaay too much work becuase of the fitment.
but yeah i am saving for a better sub now, possibly kicker L7's or the apline x type. W7's still cost a lot and the amp u need 2 run them is about £600 minimum.

jojo, that car is quite nice, just the exhaust and the smooth lines make it look a bit of a boy racer tho......
 
dont get kicker or alpine fella..

look into others that are not heavy advertised.. as these subs tend to concentrate more brand for your money rather than the actual product been good...

Focal are the future! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
pimpmyaudi said:
All the bass is comin from my 2x 12"s. at the moment my 2 subs are pushing 160db.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah right I don't think so.

Have you seen the graph of the DB curve?


Running 6*9's and subs is a big no no. As stated you want to spend your money on a decent set of comps and no rears.


[ QUOTE ]
richy said:
Focal are the future! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


I would have to disagree. I find the tweeters of the Focals are far too harsh, because of what they are made from.




My install incase you were wondering:

Alpine CDA-9815RB
Phoenix Gold PLD1
Phoenix Gold EQ232
JL 650 CXi's
2* JL W3v2's
Phoenix Gold Bass cube
2* Phoenix Gold Tantrum 250.2's
Phoenix Gold Tantrum 600.4
Directed Audio 1 Farad ICE Cap
 
mark,
no i havent, as i said on a previous post they were only rough figures, not measured or anything. its probably more like 157-158db.
anyway, i have decent components now, diamond audio M651, sell for around £400 in uk. i was originally gonna get the XR650 JL's, but got d/audio instead. i have the p/gold 250.2 tantrum amp running them. just out of curiousity, how much did u pay for the 250.2 tantrum amp?
also, everyone keeps going on about 6x9's and a sub.
no.1 - yes i know about 6x9's, and i wouldnt have brought them if i didn't have to but i had too as explained earlier.
no.2 - if u take away the bass from a 6x9, u r left with mid range and treble. how is that much different from a 6.5" speaker? not much in my book, you arent really gonna notice much difference with a £100 6x9 or a £100 6.5 speaker, as long as you completly turn the bass off from the 6x9 like i have done. the treble and midrange comin from the 6x9 is as good as any 6.5" speaker that i could buy for around £100, which is the most i would bother spending on rear speakers.

but anyway, can't argue with u, u have a top setup. p/gold, JL and diamond audio are probably the 3 best ice companys. hopefully within the next year i will have 2 W7's instead of 2 r types, and 2 p/gold or jl or genesis amps to run them.

also, i have 2 amps altogether, will have 3 when the tantrums hooked up. at the moment, my battery goes flat quite a lot. its a standard battery, 1.6 A3. is it cos theres a problem with the battery, or simply just not powerful enough?
 
sorry mate there is nooooo way in hell you are hitting anywhere near 150s, never mind high 150s

i think you may need to sit your friend down and ask him where he got his readings from /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

the loudest car in the UK (in your class, street B - 2 x 12s or 1 x 15 IIRC) has just hit shy of 150 and that is with 5kw of power and a 15" tuned around the mid 50s (i think!)

i had a single 12" when i competed a few months ago taking about 1.5kw (but tuned low for streetbass) and that hit 136.4db on the new sensors which would be around 140's on the old mics i guess

if you're into streetbass (loud and low) you could do worse than checking out an RE SE, im guessing even a single 12" (ported) would be louder than the two you have now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

personally i would forget rear speakers all together.

sell the 6x9s and put the money to a decent set of comps, they are crossed way too high anyway really and you owouldnt be getting any decent mid-bass out of them at all

the battery issue, you have a few options (please dont get a CAP!)

1) upgrade your alt to battery cable to something like 4 guage or even 0 guage, do the engine to chassis and also battery to chassis - a very wise first move /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

2) bigger battery upfront (possibly one from a diesel?) or something like an optima, either red or yellow top - i used to run two of the reds and they did me proud /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

3) split charge - another battery in the boot (obviously secured well) fed off a relay from the front battery, will help to keep the voltage up on the system so you can run louder /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

4) uprated alt (probably the most expensive) get a higher ampage alt from a similar car, perhaps a diesel A3?

HTH
 
[ QUOTE ]
pimpmyaudi said:
How much did u pay for the 250.2 tantrum amp?

[/ QUOTE ]

I got them when they first came out in the UK and they cost £300 each.

I know I could have got them cheaper from America, but I wanted the warranty /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
k. yeah i got it for 175$, just under a £100 brand new. i guess the warranty might be a problem, but the money i saved will make up for it tho, even if i have to pay to get it repaired here.
 
Hmmmmm!!!!!


Ooopps, sorry, just like to mention that I had one amp (£2216) to power my whole system??? JL components up front including floor well mounted 6in mid range, and in the rear had 2 JL W6 12"v2's and some decent 6in two ways for rear fill. Oooops!!! also forgot to mention that some on this forum have had the pleasure of actually hearing it and sitting in it?????


It's not all down to what power a system runs, but what a powerfull system sounds like when it's done right......

 
what was the amp Steve?

sounds as though you were well into your audio, ever compete with it (in SQ i'm guessing?) or was it just for your own ears? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Thanks for giving me something amusing to read this evening. It's the first time I've visited this forum as I was looking for info on upgrading the system in my A3. I must say you made my day!
I will check back to see if you are on here again sometime.

Chokboywonda
 
[ QUOTE ]
Steve C said:
Hmmmmm!!!!!


Ooopps, sorry, just like to mention that I had one amp (£2216) to power my whole system??? JL components up front including floor well mounted 6in mid range, and in the rear had 2 JL W6 12"v2's and some decent 6in two ways for rear fill. Oooops!!! also forgot to mention that some on this forum have had the pleasure of actually hearing it and sitting in it?????


It's not all down to what power a system runs, but what a powerfull system sounds like when it's done right......



[/ QUOTE ]

can't really understand what your trying to say, other then that your system was good, but u tryin to take the pi*s or something? wow u had one amp, alpines show car has ten amps, was worth £30,000 altogether, but so what? wots that gotta do with me? im not competing with alpine any more then you. maybe i can't afford a £2000 amp? what does that about the power mean? did i ever say its all about how much power u have? i know enough about ice to know its not. "when its done right...." leaving the dots there sound as if u r saying mine isn't done right. well, dunno wot your trying to say at all, if u wanna take the pi*s just be straight with it.....
 
here how about this got a pioneer head unit 6500DP got standard speakers in the doors, replacement speakers in the audi sub, 12 inch kicker sub in the boot with a 600 watt JBL amp running the sub alone, bass is all going through the Sub as its no directional. Sounds pucker!!
i spent £250 on the headunit, £70 on the sub and box, £70 on the amp. Bargain for the noise i get out of it, Standard audi speakers are quite good quality if your on a budget just take all the bass off of them and wind up the sub. my work collegue is into music in a big way shes spent about £1500 on her install she gets 146Db which has been measured mine is not that much further away, if you want to see her install shes at north weild tomorrow theres a rip speed show on.
 
[ QUOTE ]
foolish3uk said:
here how about this got a pioneer head unit 6500DP got standard speakers in the doors, replacement speakers in the audi sub, 12 inch kicker sub in the boot with a 600 watt JBL amp running the sub alone, bass is all going through the Sub as its no directional. Sounds pucker!!
i spent £250 on the headunit, £70 on the sub and box, £70 on the amp. Bargain for the noise i get out of it, Standard audi speakers are quite good quality if your on a budget just take all the bass off of them and wind up the sub. my work collegue is into music in a big way shes spent about £1500 on her install she gets 146Db which has been measured mine is not that much further away, if you want to see her install shes at north weild tomorrow theres a rip speed show on.

[/ QUOTE ]

"not that much further away"

is that 1db, 3db, 5db?

on the new mics you will NOT hit near 146db with the equipment you have without tuning very high (e.g. no use for playing music)

its not all about how loud it goes, its about how well it plays when it goes loud /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
but even better to have both! mine system cost about £2000+, i don't care what ppl say about kenwood amps and r type subs, they absuloutly thump, and with excellent quality as well. also, the trebl and midrange is coming from a phoenix gold amp and £400 diamond audio components, so no one can say that at least one half of the install isn't top end...
 
[ QUOTE ]
foolish3uk said:
her boyrfiend own a car audio shop in harlow so she has had the best of everything, if you ask me better to have a good car than an excellent audio setup!!

[/ QUOTE ]

from my experience just because someone owns a car audio shop doesn't mean they know squat about car audio /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

not saying that guy doesn't but i have been on the receiving end of bad advice/installation /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
couldnt agree with u more dean on that point. i've been to some of the best audio shops in england, and the advice they have given me was utter cr*p. a number of them couldnt even work out why my subs were cutting out when i first got them (it was cos they were wired wrong, DVC, you'll know how to wire them if u know what that is), even though it was quite simple.
 
tell me about it, we have a chain of stores in the mids called Bass Junkies (or Bass Monkies if you want to refer to them as they should be /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

i had 2 installs from them before i really knew anything about car audio - spent a total of around £4k there

in all fairness the products which they sold me were ok (but overpriced!) but the installation and system set up was awful

complete numpties! stay away from them at all costs!

they are doing well for themselves which unfortunately means that people are still getting taken in by their BS /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
a lot of shops uncode stereo's, though whether they should be doing that or not i don't know. i used to take the stereo from my fiesta (first car) to this shop where i live all the time, cos i kept loosing the code. they unlocked it for £10 no questions asked, and its a top quality shop and one of the most popular in ipswich, not dodgy in any way. but really i think they should ask to see proof that its yours, like maybe V5 or hu manual or something, cos if my hu got nicked i wouldn't like to think the theiving bast*rds can walk into any shop and get it unlocked for £10, makes having a code in the first place pointless.
 
ahhhh bass junkies been there bought my 1st sub amp package there long time ago.. was only really after the amp being decent but the sub they gave me turned out to be a free air sub.... which was put a box!!! which led to it blowing quite quickly....

cheers tony
 
hi Dean,

The amp was from Genesis, and was mainly for my own ears although I was realy tempted to go through sound quality comps just to see how it faired to others. As most people say, it's all down to there own tastes and what they can afford at the time, I could only afford about £8k but managed to raise the extra to get the system and sound I wanted.
 
Hey Pimp

Sorry but you're wrong in several of your posts. So let me please clarify why:

Rear speakers have nothing what-so-ever to do with sound imaging as the perfect sound image should be a stereo image where you close your eyes and can pick out where each singer/instrument is coming from when listening to music (almost as if they band were playing right in front of your car). Rears should only be used for rear fill for rear passengers and not be heard from the front.

You WILL get bass cancelation by running 6x9s and subs using a common air space. Why ? well your 6x9s DO create bass even though they are filtered. You will be using a filter which will reduce the sound levels of any frequencies below approx 120Hz but that will only drop off at around 6dB or maybe 12dB. This filter only reduces the signal reaching the speaker and has no effect on other outside influences - which leads to the next part -
As the air behind the 6x9s is getting expanded and contracted seriously by the subs then this will have an effect on the 6x9's performance in the bass region as well as the whole frequency range. If the 6x9 cone is trying to move out of phase with the subs there will be cancelation and if it moves in phase then there will be boost and it can push the speaker cone too far. The voice coil does not like this either way and it can cause overheating etc which in turn can ruin the 6x9s.

6x9's were in your old car and so you had to put them in your new car. WRONG ! sell em or bin them 6x9s are a complete waste if you have any delusions of building a quality system. they are also no good for rear fill as they are a highly senstive speaker (usually), They are especially no good if installing them in the manner you have for the reasons described above - even if you have tinkered with the levels of fade etc the fact the subs are controlling the air behind them is of far greater consequence.

Now bare in mind I'm from the quality side not the SPL side but from what I do know about that side of it Dean T is offering good advice and you'd do well to lose the "I know it all already" tag then listen and learn - you will find you are far more respected both here and in life in general.

Just for the record I am an old git (wrong side of 35) and I have been involved with car Hi-Fi for the last 10 years at various levels including professionally and competing.

Now if you really must reply please be a grown up about it.

 
[ QUOTE ]
pimpmyaudi said:
No Slow Jo,

Thanks for the advice (well, the first half anyway).

(snip...)

How will i find i will be more respected in life? lol, you talk as if you know me and know how i am respected at the moment in life. But you don't, so this comment is invalid.

And be grown up about it? Once again, what makes you think you know me so well that you think i wouldn't be grown up about?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read all of the contributions to this very long thread with fascination. Much of the technical stuff is was over my head, but I have been very interested in the way people have responded to you, and how you have responded to them. You are right that that other forum members haven't met you, but that just means that peoples' impressions of you will be shaped by what what you write (& that includes your forum name).

It seems that you have put peoples' backs up and caused them them to regard you as not very grown up. If that is the case (& I emphasise "if"), then I think the main reason is because you have tended to present your opinions as indisputable facts, and then to argue & argue over and over again with anyone who has the temerity to have a different opinion from yours.

Remember, they are only your opinions. People are allowed to think differently from you, but it doesn't actually matter if they do. After all, they haven't listened to your system, only you have done that. If you like the way it sounds, then nothing else matters. But if you choose to post up details of your install accompanied by opinions masqerading as facts, then you are inviting other people to disagree with you. When you do that, you have to accept that some of their views will be considerably better informed than yours. You should either accept their comments with better grace, or not invite them in the first place.


 
Well Jeff those were exactly my thoughts too but maybe I couldn't have put them quite so eloquently. No doubt young Pimp will hide behind the "You don't know me" thing again and maybe he will also learn about being quoted metaphorically rather than literally !
One things for sure . . .




. . . he will need to get that last word

Kev
aka No_Slo_Jo and still looking for an S3 but going to see one tommorrow 80)
 
Well, here we go once again.

Honestly, i really don't care what you think to be perfectly honest, and i also don't see how i have stated my opinions as if they were hard facts. And if i give my opinion and someone disagrees with it, well then i'v got a right to argue back and explain why i am doing it this way or why i think this way. But like i said, i come on this forum for advice (and hopefully give advice to others) and thats it. Not to socialise, as im not that sad that i don't have real friends to socialise with. So from a personal point of view, i don't give a flying [censored] how i come across. In fact, if anything, i actually quite like arguing with narrow minded people like you, who make judgements just based on my name! how sad! So really, if you wanna post telling me what you think i am like, don't bother, i can always see a pscyciatrist if i wanna get analysed.
 
Wicked!
I would rather read this stuff than watch the Olympics any day.
You're smooth! If you were a car you'd be a Rolls Royce and Pimp would be a tractor.
Only jokin Pimp. Infact i must admit i am now a fan of yours and log specially just to hear what's up in the life of tha Pimp. Just look at your threads, you always have the most views and replies.

but on a final note, Jeff for president /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dancing.gif
 
Here go again

pimpmyaudi no disrespect, but I don't think you know as much as think you know about car audio.
 
Yep,

I'm an avid 'pimp' fan already......... He's definitely the best 'entertainment' on AS net by quite some way. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
 
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