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New arms or polybush

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by jamie226bhp, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    [Jul 22, 2010]
    Want to freshen up the suspension bits on my 1.8tqs and am not sure whether to poly bush it all or just get new arms, what are peoples thoughts or experiences and does anyone know the cost difference as I know arms are about £400
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  3. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 22, 2010]
    well technically you are not replacing shagged arms but shagged bushes.
    the only issue is if your problem lies in a ball joint which are non servicable and require a new arm.

    I polybushed and haven't looked back. I also have some brand new bushes that I pressed out of new Meyle arms when I refitted the poly bushes. (my arms had impact damage and were messing with my geometry)

    if you just have bush issues rather than ball joint issues it might be a cheap option.

    I am in favour of poly as it has a firmer and more predictable quality, is reuseable (just refitted my rear powerflex ones to the replacement rear subframe and they still had all the original cross hatching inside, no degredation at all)
    They don't work in rotational bushings though, although saying that I ignored my own advice and fitted them to my ARB's.
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  4. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    [Jul 22, 2010]
    So I would need new arms anyway as I want to get it back to the new tight feeling on all the suspension components and mounts
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  5. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 22, 2010]
    Basically ye.

    IMO its usually the balljoints that fail (ie cause MOT failures and start knocking/clunking). The bushes just slowly degrade and get soggy making everything feel ****. So while yes, fitting polys to the existing arms would likely stiffen things up, the balljoints will still be 10 years old, a bit slack and on the verge of failure.

    JCB: nearly all of the bushings on the rear of a quattro are "rotational".... They all rotate around the bolts axis, as the suspension moves up and down, just like the antiroll bar does.
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  6. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 22, 2010]
    but the ARB poly bushes don't come with steel inserts. all the others do
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  7. Jonion
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    Jonion Member

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    [Jul 22, 2010]
    Also... there is no stress on the ARB bushes as they rotate.
    They simply rotate. The stress is the (anti-)twisting motion.
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  8. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 23, 2010]
    ah but when you live in scotland and have forced grit and ggravel into the joint, every time it twists it is grinding a nice groove in your ARB
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  9. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 23, 2010]
    i guess, but the same could be said about the ones with a steel sleeve... Grit and **** will get in between the bush and sleeve and wear away at the sleeve/bush over time.
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  10. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 26, 2010]
    personally I would never use front poly bushes again...

    it transfers the shock directly to the balljoints which then fail faster, especially if you have low profile tires and harder suspension.

    I went through 3 sets of lower arms on my old A4 in this way.

    I ended up putting stock bushes back on to save the ball joints.



    interestingly i have just replaced the whole front end joints on my S4, its made a whole world of difference to turn in and feel...... now the back feels loose! doh!
    #9
  11. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 26, 2010]
    nope, too tight.
    I just transferred mine from one sub frame to another and the cross hatching on the inner surface of the bush was still present and had left an transfer of the pattern on the steel. mine have 25k on them
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  12. Jonion
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    Jonion Member

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    [Jul 27, 2010]
    Agreed jcb, I've used poly on soem of my cars for 60k miles or more.. not a single problem with wear etc..
    And if you're getting grit in them then you either fitted the wrong ones (yes, sarcasm) or the grit got there while fitting.

    I'm also not sure how poly bushes can put more stress on the ball joints.. maybe a little but certainly not enough to cause premature wear, the balljoints get hammered far more than the bushes do anyway because of where they are.
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  13. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 27, 2010]
    Your adding a less complient part to the car, so the load has to go somewhere and the next part on the chain that moves and wears is the balljoints.

    its going to be less of a problem if you have softer suspension and higher profile tyres.

    I may add this is my experience in the trade, and of course there are may people have no problems at all.

    Many factors contribute

    Tyre profile
    Driving style
    road conditions
    Quality of arms

    etc etc
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  14. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 27, 2010]
    rose joint them!!
    my next challenge!! kept my spare arms to see what would be required....

    no more arm kits for me!
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  15. Jonion
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    Jonion Member

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    [Jul 27, 2010]
    Do you know how hard it was for me to not mention rose joints in my previous reply lol


    Andy, I appreciate what you're saying but the stiffer suspension and lower profile tyres will have a massive effect compared to the bushes.
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  16. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 27, 2010]
    they will provide the ultimate control...... dont expect them to last too long...

    Jonion.......... agreed..... but its all part of it..... decent discussion this one... :)
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  17. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 27, 2010]
    I have rose jointed C links (totally unecessary and very bling I know) and they are still in excellent shape considering i couldn't be bother to seal the joint in a rubber boot.
    #16
  18. Jonion
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    Jonion Member

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    [Jul 27, 2010]
    lol
    Yes Andy agreed.
    I come from the angle of handling first... prepping cars for track is more my area, although trying to teach college students the 'proper' way as well.
    I just don't think that with all the other variables that using poly bushes will have any adverse effects on the ball joints wearing out to any degree that would concern me. Mostly because they are placed at the end of the line.


    I've often got my list of rose joints out for my track car.. then put it away after realising I use it most days on our great roads as well.
    We all have to be sensible (read make compromises) sometimes.
    #17
  19. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 27, 2010]
    Oh god, yea I totally agree

    at work we are forever suggesting to customers the solution to suit what they want to use the car for...... so in essence the same as you have written...

    I wont be doing it on mine this time, but its my daily and long distance car...... and I have a dedicated Clio 182 track car that is hardcore..... supercharged etc.... so I can afford to have the audi a little on the soft side... LOL!

    A,
    #18
  20. Jonion
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    Jonion Member

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    [Jul 27, 2010]
    Which is exactly what I got my Audi for.. to be nice and comfy (well more nice and comfy) and do the daily grind while my track car gets saved for it's actual purpose. :racer:

    :icon_thumright:
    #19
  21. Daveiow
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    Daveiow Member

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  22. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 28, 2010]
    "matching OE Quality" .... swerve.

    all german parts kit, meyle or lemforder at a push for these
    #21
  23. Daveiow
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    Daveiow Member

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    [Jul 28, 2010]
    is that a no no then..lol
    #22
  24. jcb
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    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 29, 2010]
    trust me (and everyone else who made the mistake)
    I had mine replaced, guy promised me they were OEM and he fitted Delphi. think they lasted 15 months, shot to bits.

    The bushes are fine its the ball joints that are pants, and unfortunately it is a non serviceable item so you will be shelling out £300 again in no time
    #23
  25. Oranoco
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    Oranoco Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 29, 2010]
    I won't even start on my QH arms. Started creaking and squeaking withing 6 weeks of going on the car. Fitted Lemforder replacements and job was grand. All other ball joints seem fine but bushes are going home so will polybush them, not going the whole hog just going to do the upper arms and main lower ones.
    #24
  26. Daveiow
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    Daveiow Member

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    [Jul 29, 2010]
    I will stick with OEM me thinks
    #25
  27. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 29, 2010]
    Yep, i fitted ebay specials, 5 months and two wrecked front tyres later i did the job again with meyle parts.
    #26
  28. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 31, 2010]
    can agree with the above.....

    honestly, for the road I have never been keen on polybushes.... (even though we fit and sell them at work)...

    in answer to a previous comment, in my head this is, the ball joint is infact the 1st point of contact........... wheel, bearing, hub, ball joint, arm, bush, chassis.... in that order...

    so the balljoint takes the load, the bush prevents the shockload from the joint getting transferred to the chassis....
    #27
  29. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 31, 2010]
    Not only that, most of the force applied to the balljoint is transferred to the spring/damper assembly anyway, rather than the bushing.
    #28
  30. AndyC
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    AndyC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jul 31, 2010]
    agreed....... depends which bush of course.. only 1 actually transfers to the damper surly....... the front arm, with the damper attached to it

    the rest goto the chassis and no damped parts.
    #29

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