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New 2000 S3 Owner - Major SQ Upgrade Planned / some questions

Discussion in 'In-Car Entertainment' started by Chazaxl, Oct 20, 2013.

  1. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Oct 20, 2013]
    Hi all,

    First post. Bought a 2000 plate S3 yesterday - a bit disappointed with the interior engine noise and of course the fairly standard radio sucks.

    So looking at the following - the biggest 'challenge' I have is speakers.

    So I am planning to use the following kit, currently planning on a 2 way active system:-

    Headunit - Pioneer P99RS or P80 - undecided at the moment, of course the P99RS is a lot nicer but costs a lot more too - I dont expect to be going 3 way, so the P99RS is not 'needed'.
    Amp - DLS A7
    Speakers - this is the issue - what fits - I can fabricate some baffles - I have a CNC machine, 3D printers and a few tools - so not too difficult. Currently considering Ausidon Voce K5, Rainbow (which ones?), Morel Tempo 5, CDT Eurosport HD 52.

    Any suggestions from anyone? I like my sound to be warm and full - I dont like harsh sounding systems - Focal might be a bit bright for my liking.
    Sub - undecided - Morel 12, JL 10 or 12 W3 / 6 or similar.

    Any thoughts on how to further reduce engine noise at cruising speeds - 80/90 etc -I do a lot of motorway miles, I know the S3 wont be an A8 but its a bit louder than hoped.

    Thanks in advance. Does Andy Mac still use the forums - he comes up as being active last in June 2013.
    #1
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  3. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 20, 2013]
    andy mac unfortunatly passed away in june
    #2
  4. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Oct 20, 2013]
    Oh, so sorry to hear. I was thinking the 'worst' but had hoped it was more a case of him being too busy or similar to participate in the forums :-( !
    #3
  5. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 20, 2013]
    forget the equipment and get the installation right

    start with door treatment with something like silent coat or dynamatt
    then cover this with something like dynaliner or some form of open cell foam sheet
    directly behind the speaker enclosure use something like dynaxorb to deflect the soundwaves

    wire the car properly with that size amplifier i would run 0 gauge cable from front to rear and a distribution block on the end of this
    make sure you fuse the wire within the first 18" off the battery incase of problems

    speakers you need to make a choice
    without modification the biggest speakers you will get in the car will be limited to just over 50mm depth
    with modiciation and a small door build you can fit whatever you like

    personally if it were me and i had access to that kinda of equipment i would be building aluminium baffles for the speakers

    focal speakers are not bright its just people dont know how to tune them
    #4
  6. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Oct 20, 2013]
    Perfect, good feedback thanks.

    So, Ive got Silent Coat and 3M Thinkinsulate ready to go - not sure yet if Im going to use MLV or not.

    I have a CNC machine so I can make a custom baffle. Once I take the door apart - ill see what the options are. I dont want to mod the doors however I am toying with the idea of getting a 2nd set of cards and using them - and keeping mine as original for once the car gets sold.

    The issue is the depth and of course 6.5 inch allows a speaker with a bit more mid bass.

    I agree on the Focals - I know listening via Youtube is no indication although my PC plays via a high end sound card into a Cambridge Audio Amp and Whalfedale speakers - some of the focal demos seem to be 'ok'. I like a warm sound tho - this is why im leanings towards Morel, perhaps CDT (can get a lovely set for a good price) or Audison Voce which are very well regarded.

    Of course - the P99RS is arguably one of the best head unit you can get - so if you cant 'tune' any decent speakers (assuming install is good) then you have install or other problems.

    Just looked at your hardware - wow, some kit you have. Im based in Whitworth, not too from Barnsley - any chance I could listen to your setup (and be envious)?

    Thanks
    #5
  7. AK47UK
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    AK47UK Active Member

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    [Oct 20, 2013]
    I will have some SQL kit for sale soon mate, I have some sound deadening (will let you know the type), 2 sets of Genesis comps, 10" Genesis sub and a 5 channel series 3 Genesis amp. If you are interested let me know. I would use it in my new A3 but tbh the Bose speakers sound pretty awesome and I want to have hidden sub so will be using an 8" JL Audio sub.

    looking forward to seeing pics of your build, all the above kit was just taken out of my Focus, that was an awesome install but I don't have the time spare to do it again on my audi and I think with a new sub the setup will be good enough for my needs. I would love access to a 3d printer! I have access to numerous cnc machines though as we have a precision engineering firm in my immediate family but have yet to play with a 3d printer.

    Also are you signed up to TalkAudio? They are great at car audio advice, I have an account there and also try to choose the best forum for the car I have. After a lot of searching this forum looked like the best Audi site on the net. I am fairly new here but everyone has been very welcoming and helpful!
    #6
  8. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 20, 2013]
    if you dont want to mess with the door cards then yes a second set is a good option
    angled cnc baffles would probably be best , unless you can figure out exactly how to put the speakers in a sealed enclosure

    when the amps come back from servicing your more than welcome to come over and have a listen allthough i will warn you once you have heard it your ideas on install and kit may chance radically
    #7
  9. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Oct 21, 2013]
    Thanks - let me know what you have and what prices you want for the kit. Im building up a kit list - nothing has been bought yet, so a good time to let me know what you have.
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  10. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Oct 21, 2013]
    Cool, when will they be back and sorted?

    I dont mind having my mind changed, I woulndt want to listen if I didnt want something to aim for / compare to or even just 'experience'.

    Thanks
    #9
  11. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    shouldnt be too long before its back up and running
    i have a few differrant amplifiers to choose from so may stick something else in
    #10
  12. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    You think you will have something in by this weekend?
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  13. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    really depends on weather im afraid
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  14. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Oct 23, 2013]
    No problem at all, please let me know if I can view at any time - would love to get some ideas before I start my build or order kit.
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  15. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Oct 31, 2013]
    Pity I didnt get time to see yours - I went ahead and ordered some bits today.

    So my list is as follows:-

    Alpine CDE-178BT - I wanted to go for Pioneer P99RS or similar but the Alpine is a lot cheaper and will probably suffice for what I need.
    DLS A7 5 channel amp to run 2 way + Sub
    CDT HD52 with upgraded ES-5 Mids
    CDT HD-1020 10 inch Sub
    Audison 4 Guage power kit
    Audison 3 x 5 meter RCA
    Silent Coat
    3M Thinsulate

    I hope to be starting to build tomorrow or Saturday, hope the weather is dry and not too cold. Will initially go for a pre built 10 inch box for the sub but will look at doing some fibreglass work to do my own box on the side or the space where the spare wheel is.

    Hoping that I can get the mids to fit without too much of a problem in the current door cards although considering buying a 2nd set and hacking them as needed.
    #14
  16. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    take your time with the silent coat and 3m thinsulate
    then spend a day getting the cabling correct and to the right place and fitting the speakers in the front doors
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  17. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    Rain / winter is not the best time to do this.

    A quick question - the front door cards are off, there is a the 'vapour' barrier between the doorcard and the door. The speaker also sits under this. Should I keep the bit covering the speaker or should I cut this away to allow the speaker to 'breathe' into the rest of the door card?
    #16
  18. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    Ive got audio (and a flat battery). Sound is aweful and im not getting the Alpine's crossovers to work like Id expect, a bit of time to google.

    Ive not done any deadening - the weather doesnt allow - at least audio - which is a better starting point than what I had before.
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  19. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    Ok, subwoofer is in and helps to add some fill. Im not getting along with this alpine unit - I dont understand the crossovers - sub works as expected, for mids and tweets, its a guess. How can they both 'end' at 200 Hz?

    Argh, back to the manual.
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  20. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    im in tommorow in you wanna pop through
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  21. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    Turns out the headunit I have doesnt do proper active. Seems to be some form of hybrid mode that expects you to be using passive or the amp to crossover.

    Thanks - my car is in pieces at the moment - if I can get it sorted, Ill come past - all depends if its raining or not tomorrow.
    #20
  22. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    you could use the crossovers off your amplifier if the alpine doesnt do what you want
    #21
  23. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    Ye, thats what im doing now but I went active so that I could tweak from the headunit - argh, this isnt what I wanted.

    Ive run extra speaker cables - Im not going to hack and slash now to install passive filters.

    Will do the same on the mids and remove the headunits 'crossovers'.

    Is your car back together? Problem is - im going to hear it, be amazed, then listen to my **** system ;p
    #22
  24. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    hopefully going to put it back together tommorow if the weather is kind
    dont be afraid of passive crossovers as they can often be more effective than active
    #23
  25. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    If I had known i would have wired up for that instead. I can mod but going to use the amp's crossovers for now, at least i can fade between tweets and mids using 2 channels.
    #24
  26. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    Quick question, my 5.25 speakers are mounted on the door card itself, under the waterproof layer. I dont know how helpful this barrier is to the sound - should I be trimming this away behind the rear of the speaker or should I leave it in place?

    Anything I can do to make the door card better - silent coat between the layer (ill need to reglue it) and the doorcard itself (as well as the door ofc).

    It doesnt like me posting images:-

    All sizes | Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    All sizes | Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing! This is still the original speaker but hte replacement goes there a just squeezes in against the water proof barrier.

    Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    The joy - Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing! - why do we do this again?

    Ive also got a slight noise - not sure where its coming from. My power cables are run down the left, the signal / speaker down the right - will double check connections etc.
    #25
  27. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    yes , its a good idea to trim away the moisture guard as regards sound quality as it lets the speaker breath inside the door skin
    should help with what little bass response there is

    however

    this leaves the back of your speaker exposed to the inside of the door i would look into something like skinz which will protect the speakers from moisture but still allow the speaker to breath properly

    describe the noise
    is it on allways on just when engine on
    does the noise tone change with engine revs
    #26
  28. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Nov 2, 2013]
    Thanks - ill trim some away, will need to get some skinz, not something I have atm.

    Would you put anything in between the door card and the barrier?

    In terms of the noise, its not always on and its not linked to engine speed. So its not linked to the alternator. Its an odd sound - when using USB it is as if it does this when changing song and only for that 1 second as the new song starts. Sounds really odd, but its there and subtle. I dont know if CD does that same, I need to spend some more time with the audio to know.
    #27
  29. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    does it sound like a popping noise when changing tracks or input ? or turning the unit on and off
    if so check the earth connection on the car its usually a sign the earth isnt good enough

    i would put the skinz in between the back of the doorcard and the barrier and glue it or fix it to the back of the doorcard
    when you put the speaker and doorcard back it should make a little pod for the speaker to sit and quite happilly play through
    #28
  30. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Nov 3, 2013]
    Ok, managed to deaden the left door in between the rain. Still need to do the right door and then the boot.

    Managed to set the crossovers - sound is decent and will improve as the speakers are run in.

    Looking forward to my weekly commute to London in terms of having something nice to listen to for a change.
    #29
  31. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Nov 4, 2013]
    Ok, so it looks like ive got a spacing problem. The smallish CDT speakers are touching the frame and this is not something I can cut away. This is even before I look at adding in a new moisture layer.

    So options are to a)try and reduce the width of the plastic adaptor - I might save 5mm, may be enough. b)Consider cutting the door cards to suit but then I might as well look at going to something custom and putting in a beefy 6.5 inch speaker for more midbass. The CDTs are decent - I dont want to spend more but lets see .... perhaps just do a custom pod with 5.25 inch fitting now that can be 'expanded' out later if needed .... 2nd hand door cards arent that expensive.
    #30
  32. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 4, 2013]
    there is a german company which make ready made door pods for a lot of german cars
    for the life of me i cant remember the name now
    they may well have a direct fit option for you
    #31
  33. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Nov 4, 2013]
    Jehnert ....... they are very expensive tho. £450 kinda money, perhaps a bit more.
    #32
  34. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Nov 4, 2013]
    Produkte Doorboards Soundsystems | Audi | A3 | Audi A3 8l %C2%BB Nur 2 Turig %C2%AB 46157 Subwoofer Boards Mit Doppel Bass System | Jehnert Sound Design Automotive - I dont think that is worth €469, its 'just' the parcel thing being converted.

    This is a bit better - but more money too:-

    Produkte Doorboards Soundsystems | Audi | A3 | Audi A3 8l %C2%BB Nur 2 Turig %C2%AB 45157 Doorboards Mit 3 Wege Soundsystem | Jehnert Sound Design Automotive

    Not sure I would want a tweeter down there - im sure the cards sound good tho and will work.

    Let me do some thinking - if I hadnt bought speakers at all yet it would be easier to go down this route.
    #33
  35. dualmono21
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    dualmono21 Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 4, 2013]
    yes
    it was jehnert and they didnt use to be that expensive obviously they have gone up with a bang
    #34
  36. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Nov 4, 2013]
    Ive always known them to be pricy - certainly £500 type price ranges. Suppose it can be worth it but I would need to make a lot of changes - lets see ...

    Did you get your amps installed? Sunday afternoon was actually OK, by that time I was done and tired of messing about so left the rest.

    Ill be back home this weekend - would love to come and see your install if you are around.

    Thanks
    #35
  37. Chazaxl
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    Chazaxl New Member

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    [Nov 7, 2013]
    Hi dualmono21, have you got your system up and running?

    I went from thinking mine was 'ok' to being very unhappy with it - need to spend some time tuning ....

    Would love to come and listen to yours if possible.

    Thanks
    #36

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